Are you laughing at me clutching at straws?
Henderson
- Thread starter Markeh
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I think that spiteful comment from Ferguson has coloured many peoples views of Henderson over the last 5 years. An accusation that on a certain level he wasnt a real player. What most people missed is that Ferguson only comments negatively on opposition players he fears, they all fell for it, sadly many of us fell for it too.
Nonsense. That has nothing to do with negative perceptions of Henderson. The reason people soured on Henderson, or those who are more realistic felt like at the very least we could do better, has mostly to do with people watching him play.
What really made me dislike watching him play, was his Xabi Alonso impression out of the DM role. It was fun when Alonso did it, because his long distance passing was the best I've ever seen. Even so, the very existence of that role means that your team has some problems in midfield and at CB. Watching him stand on top of Can, or stand right next to a CB, and do what they could do if they just pushed the ball up slightly, irritated the shit out of me. Watching him this year with pretty good CB and keeper distribution immediately behind him, seemed just stupid.
Not his fault that he was asked to do that - but it meant he had alll sorts of touches on the ball, and you began to see exactly where his limitations are. And I'm very happy he's won the cup, and I'm happy for him to continue with us, but I still am unconvinced by our midfield in certain specific situations, and want to see us have different looks, including ones that don't include him.
I'd say a 7/10 ceiling for him is about right. Faultless work ethic, faultless attitude - but while those can win you things, clearly, if you can find those rare talents that have that and more technical ability than Henderson, then get them - they are what make our team tick elsewhere.
Our midfield is strange, and functions so differently than any midfield I've watched. In many of the uglier games we played this year, its lack of technical ability really showed, and while we made up for that by winning the ball high and having a spine under pressure, having something else is important.
While the midfield is fundamentally less agressive on the ball on our team due to how vulnerable our team is to counters due to our fullbacks being so aggressive, improvements to wijnaldum and henderson that are minor, would make a significant difference. The reason you know that is because when either one of them plays at the top end of their form, which neither does consistently (Wijnaldum only does it at home for the most part) our team looks completely unbeatable, whereas when neither of them do, we look like a hoofball team.
Absolutely spot on.
Woland is rightly reminding people about that Bayern game.
I'd like to add Wijnaldum's amazing contribution in the semi final against Barcelona as well.
Also don't forget Keita. He was bought to add some more direct attacking to our midfield. If he keeps improving I really don't see how you could argue that he should be on the bench.
What I'm saying is, despite Hendo's upturn in form, despite the captaincy, there is a strong argument that his place in the starting line up isn't that cemented.
Like I've said before, looking over the entire season, he isn't one of our top 3 performers in midfield.
He's been an absolute beast though during this month. I knew he was better in CM but I never thought he'd be back to 13/14 form.
Opinions and arseholes eh...
Captain of the best team in Europe.
Captain of the best team in Europe.
I thought it would be interesting to take a quick peek at RedCafe to see what our Manchester friends think of him:
- I still can’t believe a player as limited as Henderson captained a CL winning team. Heart sometimes makes up for lower quality and Henderson proved that.
- He might not be player of other coaches, but Klopp definitely like him. Klopp always love someone who can: Press, Never stop running, defend well (even Salah and Mane do so), British with strong character on/off the pitch/dressing room, tough. Of course he is very bad in creating chances, shooting, dribble, key pass, he would not be Scholes, Lampard or Gerrard level but who care as long as Klopp able to fully use his strength.
- Their version of Hererra minus the technique and finesse.
- Klopp has this fantastic ability to make average players important members of the team, it was the same with Kuba, Schmelzer and Grosscheutz, none of home were really able to make the team after Klopp left. That's because Klopp puts value in effort and stamina, which are the same set of skills Henderson has. Don't think he'l be given such an important role under a different manager.
- Very underrated. Like Milner he is excellent at what he does with his skill set.
- Also better on the ball than he gets credit for. Never top class with it, but he has plenty of quality to bring to the team in that regard.
- Probably 2018-19 is his best ever season. Crowned with the captain's job in a CL-winning side. Going on that he's obviously been undertated by many (mostly utd fans). However he'll probably get overrated now. His success imo is clearly down to Klopp which again highlights the quality of the manager. You could go as far as to say Henderson has been as important for Liverpool as John Terry was for Chelsea. Both managers at their peak recognizing the influence from those players, on and off the field, towards the rest of the team.
- As a guy posted above he's been rather underrated this season and last, but now he's the new SlippyG captain fantastic EC lifter he'll be so over rated from now on. Sourness will be raving about him next year I'd bet. One trophy, ok its a nice one to win, but its hardly D. Becks, Nicky Butt etc etc levels of silverware now is it. Doesn't David May have more medals than Henderson? Still nice touch with his Dad at the end.
- I hate to say it but he has surprised me this season with his performances. He has tuened into a decent player.
- He's one of those players that's not technically all that, but seems to always do the right thing and work hard. Plus it's hard not to like him even though he plays for the scouse cnuts
- Wasn't impressed by his CL final performance but he generally seems a very decent all round player. Their entire midfield is so workmanlike and functional, I actually kind of admire it.
- Someone said you could find a bunch of footballers in the bottom half that can do what Henderson did. Was it @11101? I still find that interesting and hard to disprove.
- Like who though, Mark Noble or such like? I would say that most fans seem to have a non-appreciation of leadership qualities, something which is valued much higher within the game. Obviously it's much more intangible to the average fan as we can only guess on the team psychology behind closed doors. It is unlikely to be proven though as I doubt Klopp will be signing Noble to test the theory.
- Worst captain to ever lift the EC/CL?
- I don't think you can overstate the importance of consistent players. For Henderson in particular, even more so, as his consistency is what allows him to be a leader on and off the pitch. He knows he plays close to his maximum regularly, so can comfortably demand the same from his peers. From that alone, I think he's underrated. Same story with Wijnaldum and Milner.
- I recall us all laughing our heads off when Pool signed him and we signed Jones. That worked out well..
- I said half the midfielders in the PL could do what he did, because the system at Liverpool means there is room for players who can put in the work and stick to the task Klopp requires. Any half decent top tier footballer could do it. He sets the team up so the majority play to free up the two or three who make the difference. Klopp knows he is a limited player, hes benched him a lot this season.
- He fits in the "Dirk Kuyt" type of players. Hardworking, consistent and strong fitness. Every team wants some players who fit all of those 3 criteria. So LFC are fortunate to have such a "luxury" player.
- If you look at where he was as a box to box midfielder in 13/14 and fast forward five years, he's pretty much playing at the level I'd expect him to. Maybe would have been thinking he could have turned it up another notch if it all came together for him. He's taken a roundabout way to get there, with some poor form in struggling teams for a while, horrible recurring injuries and some years in the holding role, but if anything Klopp has been slow to get the best out of him.
- Jordan Henderson has the great misfortune to follow Steven Gerrard, a genuinely world class player, as Liverpool Captain. Even by itself that has made his situation almost impossible. Add to that the fact that he is a player of limited talent and it is no wonder that he has as many detractors as fans. Henderson is a perfect example of a player who has made a lot out of a little. But in many ways he is an archetypal Klopp player inasmuch as he works hard for the team, bleeds for the shirt and galvanises those around him. In fairness he is exactly the sort of player that we do not have and so desperately need. Did he deserve to lift the Campions League trophy? Did Wes Morgan deserve to lift the Premier League trophy for Leicester? What does it matter? He did lift it and that is how history will record it.
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Be the bigger man and drop your signature tune now, there's a good cuddle bunny
At least some of them acknowledge he is underrated...
Sadly by some of our own but there you go...
He deserved to lift that trophy the other day and it made me very happy indeed.
Pretending Baconface made that comment about Henderson because he thought he was some kind of awe-inspiring great player in the making is laughable.
But then to be fair bacon face also said in his biography that he had only managed 4 world class players...
4.
Hendo is not an awe-inspiring legendary player, and he will never be nor has ever been a new Stevie G.
Is he a good player? YES
Is he a dedicated fully committed player who cares about the club and leads on the pitch? YES
DId he just pick up Big ears number 6? YES
Anything else is just fucking bullshit spewed by twats who seemingly can't bare the thought that the constant slagging they've given the fella was often excessive bollox, as though they were fucking experts.
But the internet is the world of opinions, isn't it... So...In the world of opinions here's mine...
Posting up threads and negative comments the same week about a decent player who's just won the big prize for the club...
Get a dictionary and look up the word "supporter"
I don't think there's been that much negativity about Henderson in this thread or this Forum really.
Most people were happy to see him start the final and knew he would.
Most people were happy to see him start the final and knew he would.
It seems that the posters still slagging off Hendo are the ones that disliked and criticised him from the start and so are reluctant to change their minds.
Likewise his most ardent defenders seem to be the ones who have been his advocates since day one and now are equally trying to vindicate their original position.
For the record I like Hendo. He must be a managers dream in some ways as he is so disciplined and seems to follow instructions to a t.
He has his limitations but those self same limitations in Milner and Gini don't seem to quite provoke the same ire.
Opinions eh!
He is still the captain who lifted the Champions league trophy in 2019
Likewise his most ardent defenders seem to be the ones who have been his advocates since day one and now are equally trying to vindicate their original position.
For the record I like Hendo. He must be a managers dream in some ways as he is so disciplined and seems to follow instructions to a t.
He has his limitations but those self same limitations in Milner and Gini don't seem to quite provoke the same ire.
Opinions eh!
He is still the captain who lifted the Champions league trophy in 2019
I googled this to see who the four world class players were, and I stumbled upon this nugget of entertainment:
"Ferguson told Sky Sports News HQ in an exclusive interview on Monday that he believes Van Gaal has the pedigree to be a success at Manchester United."
I don't see how that is any more entertaining than the fact that Ferguson HANDPICKED David Moyes to succeed him as United manager.
And lo! The decline was almost vertiginous.
The same article also has this:
- David Moyes was not United's first choice as his successor. The club considered Pep Guardiola, Jose Mourinho, Carlo Ancelotti, Jurgen Klopp and Louis van Gaal before appointing him.
I love the word "considered" there
I'm made up for him. Obviously works his balls off, and got the biggest reward in club football.
He has been very up and down in his form and I don't think it's all to do with where he is played, though further forward is clearly better for him. The thing is, he's spent years getting further forward only to play one of those predictable slow chips to the far post. Something definitely clicked in the last month or so that hasn't before. Long may it continue.
He has been very up and down in his form and I don't think it's all to do with where he is played, though further forward is clearly better for him. The thing is, he's spent years getting further forward only to play one of those predictable slow chips to the far post. Something definitely clicked in the last month or so that hasn't before. Long may it continue.
We can have a discussion about Henderson without slagging him off.
I like Henderson. It's not a trivial matter to improve our team, because it will take a certain player not to spoil it in terms of work ethic, and the combination of that and technical gifts is rare.
I like Henderson. It's not a trivial matter to improve our team, because it will take a certain player not to spoil it in terms of work ethic, and the combination of that and technical gifts is rare.
He runs like he is wearing nappies
My favourite ever comment about Hendo on this site..
My favourite ever comment about Hendo on this site..
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