Well, that's just my opinion – there was a period early in Guardiola's tenure when I thought Robben was playing better than almost at any point in his career. But as usual he kept getting injured.
Poll Guardiola's personality
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Well, that's just my opinion – there was a period early in Guardiola's tenure when I thought Robben was playing better than almost at any point in his career. But as usual he kept getting injured.
When we sold Xabi Alonso to Madrid for £35m I suggested that we just swapped him for Robben & Sneijder who both seemed surplus to requirements at Madrid. Shortly after we sold him Madrid sold both players for a combined fee of about £35m. What a swap that could have been; I'd like to think we at least asked about their availability..........maybe we did but neither player fancied joining us.
Managers like Pep and Mourinho are essentially the same in that they seek out the richest clubs with the best resources and squads. What exactly do you prove by doing that? Ancelotti is the same actually.
It would be refreshing if top managers actually did look for a real challenge. If you want to prove yourself, come take over Everton or Stoke and take them to the top, you arrogant pricks.
To a large extent Klopp's taken on a proper challenge by taking the LFC job, which is why he deserves all the respect he gets.
It would be refreshing if top managers actually did look for a real challenge. If you want to prove yourself, come take over Everton or Stoke and take them to the top, you arrogant pricks.
To a large extent Klopp's taken on a proper challenge by taking the LFC job, which is why he deserves all the respect he gets.
Yes, how dare the top managers take the top jobs and top salaries! What are they proving by winning all these trophies at the top level?
I for one would like to see one of them take over a struggling British food chain and see if they can turn that around! Imagine if Mourinho had taken on the likes of Jack Fulton's before they went under - then we'd really know what he was made of! Instead he left them to rot while he swanned off to Real Madrid and now we are left with a choice of Iceland and Farm Foods. For shame José, for shame!
Hilarious
If your read my post I said it would be refreshing if top managers picked difficult jobs. Obviously we know why they go where the money is.
If Klopp wanted to manage one of the richest clubs in the world, like Barcelona, PSG, Real Madrid or Bayern Munich, he could do so.
He manages Liverpool. There's a reason for that, which give some way beyond this job suddenly becoming available, and says quite a bit about him as a person and a manager.
Guardiola would not manage Liverpool. For very obvious reasons.
He manages Liverpool. There's a reason for that, which give some way beyond this job suddenly becoming available, and says quite a bit about him as a person and a manager.
Guardiola would not manage Liverpool. For very obvious reasons.
I read your post. You said it would be refreshing after first having a moan that all they do is take the top jobs.
The top players and the top managers play for the top clubs. That's the pinnacle of these guys' careers. You slide down the ladder when your career is in its twilight, wishing for managers at that level to do it any earlier is silly.
Mourinho isn't going to take on Hull City, Guardiola won't be managing Watford. The same as Branson won't be working as cabin crew for a year and Bill Gates isn't going to be running the Wigan branch of PC World.
Taking jobs at the top and keeping them is proof in itself.
As to your last point, Klopp has taken on a challenge - but then they are all challenging in this league - but don't for a minute think it wasn't a very calculated risk.
I don't think Klopp is necessarily a good comparison in this case, 14 years at only two clubs is hardly the norm these days.
Since Klopp took the Dortmund job in 2008:
Since Klopp took the Dortmund job in 2008:
- Guardiola has had both the Barca job and Bayern job with a sabbatical in between
- Acelotti has had four jobs
- Mourinho has had four jobs
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Look at all the Pep Acolytes and Fanboys!
S'funny.
Lots of the same people who utterly despise everything about Mourinho, seem to think Guardiola is the saintly opposite, a paragon of all that is good and right about football.
Oh dear.
Little bit embarrassing really
S'funny.
Lots of the same people who utterly despise everything about Mourinho, seem to think Guardiola is the saintly opposite, a paragon of all that is good and right about football.
Oh dear.
Little bit embarrassing really
Where?
I see a couple of posters (Keni & LTW) saying they started off as big fans, but have gone off him. Others who have stated that they have never liked him, with Pesam going even further.
Rurik seems to be the only one that is really a Guardiola fan, but I might be reading that wrong.
My own stance is pretty neutral. What he has done so far has worked, but I think he'll be found out here. I don't find his style of football stimulating. I do think all top managers - and he is one right now by virtue of the amount of trophies he's won in the last eight years - have a right to choose the top jobs and it is a bit ridiculous to expect otherwise.
Even the poll is pretty balanced. Nothing embarrassing in here; read it again.
No, I don't know how you arrived at that conclusion from reading my OP. Never been a fan, but I do respect his never-ending tactical experiments, he's clearly one of the managers who is setting the trends in football currently. That's another difference with Mourinho whose peak of innovation seemed to be about 10 years ago.
Ah well I did qualify it by saying I could be reading it wrong.
So we actually have an entire thread of posters who are, at best, grudging respecters.
Incidentally, which manager does float your boat @rurikbird ?
I'm not really interested in who likes him or doesn't.
Just find it quite weird how some seem to think he's a humble, admirable brave football genius, but at the same time very vocally despise Mourinho, like there was much of a fucking difference between them.
Gullibility I suppose.
Just find it quite weird how some seem to think he's a humble, admirable brave football genius, but at the same time very vocally despise Mourinho, like there was much of a fucking difference between them.
Gullibility I suppose.
Like all Ukrainian kids of my age, I rooted for Dynamo Kiev while the great Lobanovsky was there (even though I grew up in the region of their arch-rivals Shakhtar), so I guess that kind of predisposed me to the type of larger-than-life, authoritarian managers who emphasize scientific methods of training and are totally obsessive about tactics. Rafa fit that type and I think that's what initially made me follow Liverpool in 2004. I imagine Shankly's personality placed him in that category too, along with Rinus Michels, Sacchi, Bielsa, Magath etc. Later I've also grown to appreciate less hands-on coaches who let players express themselves, such as Del Bosque or Ancelotti.
It won't be a great surprise to say that I really like Klopp right now. I liked him at Dortmund already, but I think now with age he is learning to control his obsessive nature better and to accept the imperfections that come with working with human beings. At Dortmund he was sometimes too crazy and impatient. Do you notice how at every press-conference he says "it's fine," "it's absolutely no problem," "we have to accept" etc? He is actually talking to himself there. I think he's on the way to achieving a really nice balance between pragmatic analysis and passion and that's why there is literally no one else I'd rather be the manager of Liverpool at this point.
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Fascinating, thank you @rurikbird
I think the fact that Klopp is actually fairly analytical and modern in his methods gets lost in the midst of the 'heavy metal football' rhetoric. He's a thoroughly modern manager, with a very vintage passion.
Yeah, pretty typical of the press to harp on one soundbite or stereotype, ignoring a far more complex (and interesting) reality...
Talking of managers we don't like, I could never really understand Ferguson. He is #1 in most all-time-great lists, but I could never get his logic or identify with the way his teams were playing – even before I started supporting Liverpool. I even sort of liked Mourinho for a short period of time, but with Ferguson I always felt there was just something repulsive or opaque about him.
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Who has said he's humble?
There was an interesting article on football 365 or some other website looking at managers career progression. The primary conclusion was that almost all managers after an achievement which gets them noticed jump to a relative safe job. Since 2000, they identified two managers at the top level who bucked the trend. That is who have moved to a somewhat risky job with a lot of rebuilding too even though far safer jobs were accessible to them - Rafa and Klopp. It says a lot about their personality and I guess it also says a lot about us as a club.
How would you say Barca fits into this theory then?
With their policy of promoting from within, you could say that it is a relatively safe job for the incumbent yet quite a risk for the club itself. It's difficult to truly gauge what effect the manager has on that club, they won - what - 14 trophies under Guardiola, and I think have won 9 since under three guys ((?) Tito, Martino, Enrique?) - so pretty much a continuation.
I can't say I was following Barca all too closely when Pep took the job, but I know there are those who feel that Pep was given an easy task and inherited a good squad and those who feel that he inherited one on the slide.
If my memory is correct that article was written from the point of view of how managers take decisions not how clubs take decisions on hiring managers.
Regarding Guardiola and Barca, an earlier post of mine made couple of months ago summarizes what I like and dislike about him:
http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/inde...s-guardiola-love-in.90332/page-3#post-1490694
Oh yes, I got that bit. I was just wondering more in general about where the risk is seen to lie in that job.
Your summary was about making a name for yourself then moving on to a bigger job, so how do you see it when you start in such a big job? I guess you could say the risk for Guardiola is that he may get to the end of his career and never actually eclipse his achievements there. Look at Bayern, it was a hardly a disaster but it followed such a good season from Jupp Heynckes.
True. Barcelona appointments are a little bit different as they try to pick managers who can best use their footballing talents and fit within their style of vision. Luis Enrique's managerial record was average pre Barca and most likely will be average once he leaves Barcelona also.
I do agree with you about Guardiola as I dont think he will be able to recreate his Barcelona success anywhere else simply because he will not have access to the quality of players he had at Barcelona. As long as Messi is firing on all cylinders, I think Barcelona is the least riskiest among all top jobs.
As for his Bayern move, I agree with you on that also. Bayern announced they were hiring Guardiola in December or January of the treble season. I dont think even Bayern bosses forecasted them winning the treble that season under Heynckes. I wonder if Guardiola would have taken up the job if it was offered to him after they won the treble or if Bayern would have even offered it to him.
I don't have much of an opinion of him as a manager, but it pisses me off no end when people gush about him being dead stylish.
He always looks like he's wearing his school uniform. One his mum's just shrunk in the wash.
He always looks like he's wearing his school uniform. One his mum's just shrunk in the wash.
As much as I despise Mourinho, at least he won the European Cup with Porto, hardly a giant of the game.
Agreed. It's also easier to win titles at big clubs with unrivalled spending power where you get to pick the very best players money can buy.
I have a healthier respect for Klopp and how he builds his teams while developing their players as opposed to Mourinho and Pep to name but a few chequebook managaers/coaches.
I believe that if you ask him he will agree that he won..... Porto was as less important factor!
I like Pep a lot and think that he'll build something very successful at City over the course of his stay.
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