Goodbye Brendan

[6TimesaRed]

Brendan Rodgers’ side are down in 11th place in the Premier League table after a stuttering start to the season which has seen them pick up only 14 points from 11 games.

Liverpool also finished second under Benitez in the 2008/09 campaign - winning 25 matches and losing just two games but drawing 11 times to finish four points behind champions Manchester United.

But Benitez’s side also struggled the following season and took 18 points from the first 11 games in the 2009/10 campaign in which they eventually finished seventh.

 

[davud graham]

I thought Football forums were all about comparing past managers with the current one and past players with present ones. It's not as if any of us one here has any power or influence to make changes whether we want to or not. Some of us could do with being a bit more relaxed and perhaps more tolerant of other peoples opinions.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

Yes but Rafa was sacked the following season and Brodgers wouldn't be.

 

[MaBigTip]

Its all gonna be so much rosier when Danny puts in 3 and we're all dancing.

 

[gkmacca]

I thought Football forums were all about comparing past managers with the current one and past players with present ones. It's not as if any of us one here has any power or influence to make changes whether we want to or not. Some of us could do with being a bit more relaxed and perhaps more tolerant of other peoples opinions.

On RAWK there's a separate past managers sub-forum in which there is both a positive things about past managers sub-sub-forum and a negative things about past managers sub-sub-forum, although the negative things about past members sub-sub-forum is actually just a laundry shute that sends you down to the basement, where some 'auld fella' hits you with a heavy frying pan and bakes you in a pie.

 

[davud graham]

I was against Rafa getting sacked and even went to the Rally/show of support for him outside Anfield but i think it had less to do with results than political infighting within the club at the time. The league position was used as an excuse but Hicks and Gillette had had enough of him questioning them and Purslow thought that Hodgson would do a better job!

 

[Modo]

That's selective at best, no one knows whether someone like Alves would have come here, I mean, he ended up at Barca. We lost out on some players because other clubs were interested, look at the likes of Vidic. There's not many I can think of off the top of my head who we lost on, but desperately wanted to come here. Barry? Heinze? Hardly devastating blows. Rafa wanted to spend £40m on Barry and Keane, go figure.

Rafa wanted Martinez.
Xabi joined us because of Rafa.
So did Torres.

So Rafa did have some pulling power.

 

[jexykrodic]

The reason Rafa Benitez appears so frequently in debates on here is because we all know he should still be Manager; he managed during a particularly political time at the club and paid the price for not going along to get along. He wasn't removed for footballing reasons.

That's history though, it's Brendan Rodgers in the hot seat now and he's managing a very young team, has the club back in the Champions League and has been a little unlucky in losing his best player and had to do without his top scorer this season. I think he shows promise and needs all the backing he can get.

 

[Best Believe It]

I thought Football forums were all about comparing past managers with the current one and past players with present ones. It's not as if any of us one here has any power or influence to make changes whether we want to or not. Some of us could do with being a bit more relaxed and perhaps more tolerant of other peoples opinions.

Fine, but he's only getting compared to Rafa Benitez. He's not getting compared to Hodgson, or Houllier, or Dalglish or Fagan.

 

[davud graham]

Fine, but he's only getting compared to Rafa Benitez. He's not getting compared to Hodgson, or Houllier, or Dalglish or Fagan.

That's probably because Benitez was the last manager we had that went close to winning the league. No-one surely would compare Rodgers with Hodgson as not only did he not even have a decent run of results but he was so out of touch with the club and the fans that it was embarrassing at times.
Dalglish did well in the Fa Cup and League cup but our league form wasn't great under him and in the european games he looked struggled tactically.It didn't help that some of his biggest signings failed to produce either at all or only when he had left the club.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Nah most of it is money. Mkhitaryan was the one exception

There's a reason that Moyes couldn't sign anyone of note and Van Gaal could, it isn't just money. The manager has to be able to sell the club well, Rodgers hasn't proved he can do that on the big stage yet.

 

[Leo]

There's a reason that Moyes couldn't sign anyone of note and Van Gaal could, it isn't just money. The manager has to be able to sell the club well, Rodgers hasn't proved he can do that on the big stage yet.

Didn't he sign Mata?

 

[Best Believe It]

There's a reason that Moyes couldn't sign anyone of note and Van Gaal could, it isn't just money. The manager has to be able to sell the club well, Rodgers hasn't proved he can do that on the big stage yet.

Sure, but being prepared to outbid everyone and pay massive wages also helps, does it not? Moyes signed Mata, had a deal lined up for Luke Shaw and would have signed Herrera had Ed Woodward been able to do his job properly. Van Gaal is a big draw, no question, but it's not as if Man Utd were locked in tugs of war for the players they signed this summer. They were prepared to pay premiums for players in terms of fees and wages and that was always going to tip the balance in their favour regardless of who was in charge.

 

[Modo]

There's a reason that Moyes couldn't sign anyone of note and Van Gaal could, it isn't just money. The manager has to be able to sell the club well, Rodgers hasn't proved he can do that on the big stage yet.

Oh I guess I'm sane then.

 

[gkmacca]

Dalglish did well in the Fa Cup and League cup but our league form wasn't great under him and in the european games he looked struggled tactically.

Unlike Rodgers??? At least Kenny had been there and done it, multiple times. He just didn't have a good enough team. Rodgers doesn't have a good enough team. I've not seen great tactics so far. It's just a lazy argument.

 

[Judge Jules]

Might I suggest with all due respect that there's a bit of revisionism going on here about the reasons for Rafa's departure? It's quite true that he was in charge when the club was in some turmoil behind the scenes (incidentally Rafa himself wasn't above taking part in it, though I blame him less for that than some do, because when it's happening at your workplace and your job is affected you have little choice but to get involved). What I don't agree with is the idea that that was the only reason for his departure. Our progress on the field had pretty much ground to a halt and a number of us on here, myself included, thought there were one or two signs that at least some of the players had stopped playing, or wanting to play, for Rafa. When things reach that kind of stage, a manager's job is (rightly IMHO) going to be at risk whatever the state of the club off the field may be.

 

[Leo]

No sign of a Rafa interview last year when we were flying.
Now that we are struggling he forces his mug onto Sky for his whoring interview.
He's a sly cunt.

 

[Whirly]

There seems to be a lot of blind faith in BR here on the basis of last season, but I don't know if tactically he's ever really deserved those plaudits in his time with us.

Going back a few years now, BR seems to consistently make questionable decisions in terms of personnel, organization, and substitutions.

Gerrard at DM, not using subs often enough early on, persisting with Johnson/Downing, playing Balotelli as a lone striker, four central defenders starting, subbing off some of our better performers in close matches, and our overall defensive lapses come to mind.

I think you could say in terms of tactics over the course of his tenure, he's done more wrong than right, but our talent has generally papered over the cracks, as is often the case with top clubs.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Didn't he sign Mata?

Yep, he's an exception. I think you get the point though. It's obvious that more respected managers find it easier to sign players, it's not the only reason players sign for clubs(money is the main one), but it's certainly a huge factor. Possibly even the second biggest one.

 

[OLD_Lewy]

There seems to be a lot of blind faith in BR here on the basis of last season, but I don't know if tactically he's ever really deserved those plaudits in his time with us.

Going back a few years now, BR seems to consistently make questionable decisions in terms of personnel, organization, and substitutions.

Gerrard at DM, not using subs often enough early on, persisting with Johnson/Downing, playing Balotelli as a lone striker, four central defenders starting, subbing off some of our better performers in close matches, and our overall defensive lapses come to mind.

I think you could say in terms of tactics over the course of his tenure, he's done more wrong than right, but our talent has generally papered over the cracks, as is often the case with top clubs.

Putting Gerrard as DM was praised by a good few people on here at the end of last season. Subs possibly, although I can't remember any of our managers that haven't been guilty of this, johnson and downing, well downing improved greatly, johnsons shit but he was once a pretty good attacking full back, we're shit with 2 strikers and with 1, no difference there, and i cba doing the rest.

Sacking Rodgers would be madness, I like rafa as much as the next guy but fuck me we played some dire football under him, at times it was so boring I couldnt give a fuck if we'd won or lost

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Sure, but being prepared to outbid everyone and pay massive wages also helps, does it not? Moyes signed Mata, had a deal lined up for Luke Shaw and would have signed Herrera had Ed Woodward been able to do his job properly. Van Gaal is a big draw, no question, but it's not as if Man Utd were locked in tugs of war for the players they signed this summer. They were prepared to pay premiums for players in terms of fees and wages and that was always going to tip the balance in their favour regardless of who was in charge.

As I said in the other post, of course there's other factors, money is a huge one. But having a manager that get market the club right is a massive draw. There's no way United would have close to this good a squad if Moyes was still there.

 

[davud graham]

Unlike Rodgers??? At least Kenny had been there and done it, multiple times. He just didn't have a good enough team. Rodgers doesn't have a good enough team. I've not seen great tactics so far. It's just a lazy argument.

That was in a reply to 'Best Believe It' saying that other posters were only comparing Rodgers with Benitez. What i said about Dalglish had nothing to do with Rodgers and i think that Rodgers hasn't been great in European games either.
And Kenny hadn't been there and done it in european games for us as a manager as in his first spell we were banned from europe and in his second spell he only had 2 games against Sparta Prague and 2 against Braga and we were poor in all 4 games.

 

[Whirly]

Putting Gerrard as DM was praised by a good few people on here at the end of last season. Subs possibly, although I can't remember any of our managers that haven't been guilty of this, johnson and downing, well downing improved greatly, johnsons shit but he was once a pretty good attacking full back, we're shit with 2 strikers and with 1, no difference there, and i cba doing the rest.

Sacking Rodgers would be madness, I like rafa as much as the next guy but fuck me we played some dire football under him, at times it was so boring I couldnt give a fuck if we'd won or lost

I think you're too early blaming the squad here for our shortcomings. At the end of the day, if BR wants to be renowned as the manager he aspires to be, he should be able to do more with less.

 

[Best Believe It]

As I said in the other post, of course there's other factors, money is a huge one. But having a manager that get market the club right is a massive draw. There's no way United would have close to this good a squad if Moyes was still there.

Isn't that partly down to Moyes not actually being that good a manager, rather than not being a big name or anything? He would have struggled to attract players in part because he was coming off a horrendous season in charge where they played dirge football.

 

[gkmacca]

That was in a reply to 'Best Believe It' saying that other posters were only comparing Rodgers with Benitez. What i said about Dalglish had nothing to do with Rodgers and i think that Rodgers hasn't been great in European games either.
And Kenny hadn't been there and done it in european games for us as a manager as in his first spell we were banned from europe and in his second spell he only had 2 games against Sparta Prague and 2 against Braga and we were poor in all 4 games.

Yes, thanks for the history lesson, I was there, but my point about experience in Europe still counts. If you think tactics was at the root of all problems then and now then good for you, but I disagree. And it's probably not that wise an idea to assume you're the only person who's seen these games. It helps the discussion if you stick with opinions.

 

[jexykrodic]

Yes, thanks for the history lesson, I was there, but my point about experience in Europe still counts. If you think tactics was at the root of all problems then and now then good for you, but I disagree. And it's probably not that wise an idea to assume you're the only person who's seen these games. It helps the discussion if you stick with opinions.

Nice edit. I think he has a point though. Benitez seemed to get tactics right more often than not when we played in Europe, in my opinion of course.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Isn't that partly down to Moyes not actually being that good a manager, rather than not being a big name or anything? He would have struggled to attract players in part because he was coming off a horrendous season in charge where they played dirge football.

That would imply that Rodgers isn't a good manager then? He hasn't been able to sign most of the people he wants to either. Moyes wasn't able to sign people when he was on top, just came out of Everton, Ferguson's chosen successor, league champions, loads of money. There was issues with the owners too, but a large part of it was down to Moyes not being able to convince people to sign for him.

I think we're seeing the same with Rodgers, he's struggling to get anyone he wants, and at least part of that is down to his inability to convince them to sign.

 

[Judge Jules]

Where's the evidence for that though? These things turn on so many different factors. Sanchez for example never wanted to leave Spain. When he finally accepted he was going to have to, he clearly made his mind up (and who can blame him?) that he was going to live and work in a place he thought he'd find congenial, or at least more congenial than the alternative.

 

[6TimesaRed]

I don't get why Benitez get so much flak on here..

The guy brought us number 5, and made us a force in Europe.. Everyone feared us..

He put Liverpool back on the European map..

Yes I called for his head when all went pear shaped.. But when I look back on it, it was probably more for political reasons than football reasons why he was eventually sacked..

I'd have him back in heartbeat if Rodgers tenure ends prematurely..

 

[Whirly]

I don't get why Benitez get so much flak on here..

The guy brought us number 5, and made us a force in Europe.. Everyone feared us..

He put Liverpool back on the European map..

Yes I called for his head when all went pear shaped.. But when I look back on it, it was probably more for political reasons than football reasons why he was eventually sacked..

I'd have him back in heartbeat if Rodgers tenure ends prematurely..

Why do all five of your paragraphs end in ellipses?