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'Get f*cked ref!' - 'Green card for you sir, I hope you haven't used all your subs'

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It's utterly bizarre.

It's almost as if they want to use the sin bin idea but because it wasn't invented by a football authority they're afraid to.

I'd love to see a sin bin idea trialled in footy, which coming from me is pretty unusual as I hate rule changes, but since there's no going back on the march to make almost all aggressive tackling illegal in the game it makes much more sense to be able to bench a player than force the referee to card them.

It would also be an end to most of the silly two yellow sending offs where one of the bookings was for something like taking their top off to celebrate a goal.
 
If it’s an American ref that issues the Green Card, does that mean you can emigrate tobthe US?
 
Nah. Pretty stooopid. If they have used all their subs then refs will know it's the equivalent of a Red. Team wants to have a '4th' substitution, tell a player to get himself a Green by abusing the ref. ! There's no post match repercussion.

Just introduce Sin Bins FFS. A player takes off his top ? 5-10 mins in the Sin Bin will cure that problem overnight. Jostling or foul mouthing the ref ? Blocking a FK by standing 1-2m from the ball until your team is ready ? Time wasting ? Diving ? BIN THEM ALL !! Watch half the 'problems' disappear within a season.

FIFA/UEFA/FA are all cowards anyway.
 
Sin binning would solve so many issues that drive fans crazy. The immediacy and fact the team sinned against benefits would surely remove aspects we all hate.
 
Plus imagine the shit a player would get doing the walk of shame, in rugby players get a pretty good natured crowd reaction, not so sure it would quite as friendly.
 
They have something similar to this in Gaelic Games, if a player is shown a black card he has to leave the field but can be replaced even if all the subs have been used. I think this is a better way for this type of ruling.
 
I'm all for sin binning. As others have said it would undoubtably solve a multitude of problems within the game. It would also be very funny whenever the cameras cuts to the forlorn sinned culprit on the bench as the opposition scored. 😀
 
They have something similar to this in Gaelic Games, if a player is shown a black card he has to leave the field but can be replaced even if all the subs have been used. I think this is a better way for this type of ruling.

If all the substitutions are used and someone gets a black card you can't make anymore subs.
 
Plus imagine the shit a player would get doing the walk of shame, in rugby players get a pretty good natured crowd reaction, not so sure it would quite as friendly.

That's because they get it for a tough or late tackle more often than not, not diving, taking your shirt off and dessent.

Sin bins are inevitable and will be a great forward step
 
Personally I think that this, as with most ancillary laws, merely encourages less disciplined thinking on behalf of those who enforce it. One law isn't practised carefully and accurately enough, so an additional one is introduced as a kind of buffer, then that isn't applied properly, so another is added, and so on and so on. What it ultimately comes down to, surely, is the failings of refs being excused by an excess of rules. Train refs better and you'll need fewer rules, not more of them.

A ref needs a much sharper sense of when to, and when not to, show a yellow or red card - not an even fuzzier sense. The amount of deliberation required to judge which card is most deserved would be better suited to post-match committee meetings than a ref in the heat of the action. For one thing, a green card seems to sit there between a yellow and red like a cuckoo in the nest. It doesn't so much complement the other two as flap wildly about around them. There are lots of potential offences that could get all three cards, or one or two of them, depending, seemingly, on the whim of a particular referee. And how it would fit with VAR, which is 'supposed' to clarify and simplify the existing procedure, god only knows.

I think what's needed are fewer rules but more grown-up conversations, and warnings, from a ref to the players.
 
I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of fewer & more sensible rules.

However, I think the chances of fewer rules, esp the ridiculous ones like taking off a top or actually celebrating with your own fans, being removed or rescinded, are massively remote, so the needless & game ruining cards will continue.

At least a sin bin option feels more proportionate than the current alternatives availabile for referees.
 
What is the supposed reasoning behind the rule against taking your shirt off? Is it to protect the faint hearted in the crowd from seeing a bit of chest hair?
 
Personally I think that this, as with most ancillary laws, merely encourages less disciplined thinking on behalf of those who enforce it. One law isn't practised carefully and accurately enough, so an additional one is introduced as a kind of buffer, then that isn't applied properly, so another is added, and so on and so on. What it ultimately comes down to, surely, is the failings of refs being excused by an excess of rules. Train refs better and you'll need fewer rules, not more of them.

A ref needs a much sharper sense of when to, and when not to, show a yellow or red card - not an even fuzzier sense. The amount of deliberation required to judge which card is most deserved would be better suited to post-match committee meetings than a ref in the heat of the action. For one thing, a green card seems to sit there between a yellow and red like a cuckoo in the nest. It doesn't so much complement the other two as flap wildly about around them. There are lots of potential offences that could get all three cards, or one or two of them, depending, seemingly, on the whim of a particular referee. And how it would fit with VAR, which is 'supposed' to clarify and simplify the existing procedure, god only knows.

I think what's needed are fewer rules but more grown-up conversations, and warnings, from a ref to the players.
Sorry but can't agree. At the top level the game has become far faster and more cynical. It's no longer about the 'rules' per se. It's unfair even to expect a referee to be able to handle a top PL / CL match without serious assistance nowadays. If they have another weapon to aid them, and I'm referring to Sin Bins rather than just Yellow & Red cards, it adds flexibility to deal with miscreants without them feeling they may have had a detrimental affect on the match when dishing out a Red. Of course VAR will be another major step forward once they sort it out.
 
I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of fewer & more sensible rules.

However, I think the chances of fewer rules, esp the ridiculous ones like taking off a top or actually celebrating with your own fans, being removed or rescinded, are massively remote, so the needless & game ruining cards will continue.

At least a sin bin option feels more proportionate than the current alternatives availabile for referees.

Yes, but at present, the green card is being used on top of the existing rules, so it's left to the ref to decide whether an action that is already specified as demanding a yellow card might be given a green card instead. I heard one of the people responsible for introducing this being interviewed yesterday and it only needed a couple of queries to render him hopelessly confused about his own idea. To make this work there would surely have to be a clear demarcation between the different actions/sanctions - otherwise you'd have chaos, with some players getting yellow, green or even red cards for ostensibly identical offences.
 
Sorry but can't agree. At the top level the game has become far faster and more cynical. It's no longer about the 'rules' per se. It's unfair even to expect a referee to be able to handle a top PL / CL match without serious assistance nowadays. If they have another weapon to aid them, and I'm referring to Sin Bins rather than just Yellow & Red cards, it adds flexibility to deal with miscreants without them feeling they may have had a detrimental affect on the match when dishing out a Red. Of course VAR will be another major step forward once they sort it out.

Yes, but my point is that it's no good giving a ref another 'weapon' if it doesn't work. At present a green card is a subjective interpretation of something that first needs to be 'objectively' interpreted as an offence, so first a ref needs to decide a formal yellow or red card offence has been committed, and then he can subjectively decide if it's even worse than a 'normal' yellow card offence or not quite as bad as a 'normal' red card offence (no doubt to the gentlemanly applause of the other team's dug out). That's a recipe for mental paralysis in a high pressure and fast-moving game. It's not helpful. No doubt if a serious league or cup competition wanted to adopt it they could fine tune it, but in my opinion it would need a hell of a lot of fine tuning to become practically coherent.
 
Sorry but can't agree. At the top level the game has become far faster and more cynical. It's no longer about the 'rules' per se. It's unfair even to expect a referee to be able to handle a top PL / CL match without serious assistance nowadays. If they have another weapon to aid them, and I'm referring to Sin Bins rather than just Yellow & Red cards, it adds flexibility to deal with miscreants without them feeling they may have had a detrimental affect on the match when dishing out a Red. Of course VAR will be another major step forward once they sort it out.
It doesn't help that the average professional footballer is in the prime of his life while the average referee is Phil Dowd.
 
The way I see it there are three options for a green card - either to 'mop up' offences not covered currently by the issuing of yellow or red cards, or to overlap with the current remit of yellow and red cards, or to take over some of the remit of the other two cards.

The first just strikes me as unnecessary - we surely feel that too many things are penalised in today's game, not too few. There'd be barely anything left that wasn't a potential offence.

The second, as I said before, just seems hopelessly subjective and confusing.

The third is surely the least incoherent option, but again, for me, it encourages refs to be even more uptight and fastidious rather than more interested in letting the game flow. At the moment there are too many occasions when the rules stop refs from exercising a bit of common sense; there are too many instances when they send off players for two minor offences. But I'd rather encourage them to be lenient rather than give them an 'intermediate' card (which, among other things, would probably encourage them to show too many yellow cards too early in a game, and then rely on green cards to stop a spate of reds). As has already been said, there are far too many laws today that result in cards being shown, such as taking off a shirt to celebrate goals (and the fact that Firmino and others still keep doing it suggests the rules aren't even being taught as well as they should be). Rather than add cards in order to counteract such things leading to red cards, wouldn't it be better just to prune the rules of petty and unnecessary 'offences'?

According to the ConIFA spokesman (seemingly mixing up a bit of options one and three), the green card is currently there to penalise offences that would normally not result in a card because 'if you ignore something then you're implicitly condoning it'. But that's surely a sign of how muddled the thinking is on this matter. If you were to penalise formally every single thing that you deemed unworthy of condoning, you'd have a Weberian nightmare of legislation and red tape.

There's already a means of showing you don't condone an action in a football game without requiring a card - it's a ref saying 'stop that'/'shut it'/'don't do that again' etc. I don't think anything else is required.
 
It doesn't help that the average professional footballer is in the prime of his life while the average referee is Phil Dowd.
Or that one had a massive incentive with a win bonus that could be higher than the ref's annual wage!
 
Or that one had a massive incentive with a win bonus that could be higher than the ref's annual wage!
Ideally the ref would be as fit as the footballers, If they're keeping up with the game they possibly cover more ground than some of the players. Although they might not have the experience of reffing, perhaps have the 4th official as someone with a bit more experience?
 
Yep in all in for sin bins, also with different punishment times. 5 minutes for taking your shirt off, 10 minutes for diving in the penalty area. But sin bins can only be bought in once we get a decent fast moving working version of VAR.
 
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