Gerrard Houllier at Aston Villa
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Squiggles
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[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42531.msg1221204#msg1221204 date=1290242003]
I remember reading about that Ince incident; I thought Houillier handled the guv'nor superbly.
I hate the fact that we've had TWO top managers who could have made us greats again but ultimately fell short 🙁
Though I'd say Ged's shortcomings were mainly his own and Rafa was unlucky in some things.
[/quote]
Yeah, it's own fault for wishing for a heart failure.
I remember reading about that Ince incident; I thought Houillier handled the guv'nor superbly.
I hate the fact that we've had TWO top managers who could have made us greats again but ultimately fell short 🙁
Though I'd say Ged's shortcomings were mainly his own and Rafa was unlucky in some things.
[/quote]
Yeah, it's own fault for wishing for a heart failure.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42531.msg1220016#msg1220016 date=1290019716]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42531.msg1220012#msg1220012 date=1290019351]
Houllier was brilliant until his illness and then we fell short, but I think that team with McAllister, Barmby, Hamann etc was one of the best I've seen play under us, when you thrown in a younger Carragher, Owen and Gerrard, it was a great side.
I think his illness affected him badly and it seemed to creep into his mindset for games, he didn't have the courage to go for games, although it's worth stressing that he could be quite cautious anyway, as found out with our reputation on the continent during the UEFA Cup run, but anyway, he's a good manager, just incredibly stubborn.
[/quote]
I've never been sure how much of a difference GH's illness actually made in the end. The highlighted bit, which is true, was evident well before he got sick.
It's a real shame that our last two managers, after doing so much for the club, were derailed in the end by their own stubbornness.
[/quote]
I remember having this argument with you years ago Judge; I always thought GH came back a shadow of the manager who had led the team so well in the previous years. He was always cautious but he seemed, after his heart problems, to almost be trying to talk himself into the idea that he needed to attack. He couldn't seem to trust himself. It was interesting to read this article and see that Ged feels he was shattered after the heart scare as well.
I do remember a comment made on Koptalk years ago that if Houllier had walked away after being hospitalised then he'd almost certainly be a Kop Legend; I think that was exactly right.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42531.msg1220012#msg1220012 date=1290019351]
Houllier was brilliant until his illness and then we fell short, but I think that team with McAllister, Barmby, Hamann etc was one of the best I've seen play under us, when you thrown in a younger Carragher, Owen and Gerrard, it was a great side.
I think his illness affected him badly and it seemed to creep into his mindset for games, he didn't have the courage to go for games, although it's worth stressing that he could be quite cautious anyway, as found out with our reputation on the continent during the UEFA Cup run, but anyway, he's a good manager, just incredibly stubborn.
[/quote]
I've never been sure how much of a difference GH's illness actually made in the end. The highlighted bit, which is true, was evident well before he got sick.
It's a real shame that our last two managers, after doing so much for the club, were derailed in the end by their own stubbornness.
[/quote]
I remember having this argument with you years ago Judge; I always thought GH came back a shadow of the manager who had led the team so well in the previous years. He was always cautious but he seemed, after his heart problems, to almost be trying to talk himself into the idea that he needed to attack. He couldn't seem to trust himself. It was interesting to read this article and see that Ged feels he was shattered after the heart scare as well.
I do remember a comment made on Koptalk years ago that if Houllier had walked away after being hospitalised then he'd almost certainly be a Kop Legend; I think that was exactly right.
S
Squiggles
Guest
If he had taken a year out of the game then there's no limit on what Houllier could have achieved with Liverpool.
He was my favourite Liverpool Manager of the four I've witnessed, although the last two years were very depressing.
He was my favourite Liverpool Manager of the four I've witnessed, although the last two years were very depressing.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=42531.msg1221912#msg1221912 date=1290357312]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42531.msg1220016#msg1220016 date=1290019716]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42531.msg1220012#msg1220012 date=1290019351]
Houllier was brilliant until his illness and then we fell short, but I think that team with McAllister, Barmby, Hamann etc was one of the best I've seen play under us, when you thrown in a younger Carragher, Owen and Gerrard, it was a great side.
I think his illness affected him badly and it seemed to creep into his mindset for games, he didn't have the courage to go for games, although it's worth stressing that he could be quite cautious anyway, as found out with our reputation on the continent during the UEFA Cup run, but anyway, he's a good manager, just incredibly stubborn.
[/quote]
I've never been sure how much of a difference GH's illness actually made in the end. The highlighted bit, which is true, was evident well before he got sick.
It's a real shame that our last two managers, after doing so much for the club, were derailed in the end by their own stubbornness.
[/quote]
I remember having this argument with you years ago Judge; I always thought GH came back a shadow of the manager who had led the team so well in the previous years. He was always cautious but he seemed, after his heart problems, to almost be trying to talk himself into the idea that he needed to attack. He couldn't seem to trust himself. It was interesting to read this article and see that Ged feels he was shattered after the heart scare as well.
I do remember a comment made on Koptalk years ago that if Houllier had walked away after being hospitalised then he'd almost certainly be a Kop Legend; I think that was exactly right.
[/quote]
So do I and, as GH's regime stuttered towards its conclusion, I remember saying that one of the saddest aspects of it all was that his legacy would suffer the longer he clung on. As it is, he still deserves perhaps honorary Legend status for that still incredible Treble.
I've actually shifted my ground on this a little.The fact that I now say I'm not sure how much difference GH's illness made, whereas before I was adamant that it hadn't made any, isn't accidental. Your views back then persuaded me at least to be less certain on the subject (though I note with some interest that you accept he was always cautious). Perhaps, as so often, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42531.msg1220016#msg1220016 date=1290019716]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42531.msg1220012#msg1220012 date=1290019351]
Houllier was brilliant until his illness and then we fell short, but I think that team with McAllister, Barmby, Hamann etc was one of the best I've seen play under us, when you thrown in a younger Carragher, Owen and Gerrard, it was a great side.
I think his illness affected him badly and it seemed to creep into his mindset for games, he didn't have the courage to go for games, although it's worth stressing that he could be quite cautious anyway, as found out with our reputation on the continent during the UEFA Cup run, but anyway, he's a good manager, just incredibly stubborn.
[/quote]
I've never been sure how much of a difference GH's illness actually made in the end. The highlighted bit, which is true, was evident well before he got sick.
It's a real shame that our last two managers, after doing so much for the club, were derailed in the end by their own stubbornness.
[/quote]
I remember having this argument with you years ago Judge; I always thought GH came back a shadow of the manager who had led the team so well in the previous years. He was always cautious but he seemed, after his heart problems, to almost be trying to talk himself into the idea that he needed to attack. He couldn't seem to trust himself. It was interesting to read this article and see that Ged feels he was shattered after the heart scare as well.
I do remember a comment made on Koptalk years ago that if Houllier had walked away after being hospitalised then he'd almost certainly be a Kop Legend; I think that was exactly right.
[/quote]
So do I and, as GH's regime stuttered towards its conclusion, I remember saying that one of the saddest aspects of it all was that his legacy would suffer the longer he clung on. As it is, he still deserves perhaps honorary Legend status for that still incredible Treble.
I've actually shifted my ground on this a little.The fact that I now say I'm not sure how much difference GH's illness made, whereas before I was adamant that it hadn't made any, isn't accidental. Your views back then persuaded me at least to be less certain on the subject (though I note with some interest that you accept he was always cautious). Perhaps, as so often, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42531.msg1221874#msg1221874 date=1290354603]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42531.msg1221204#msg1221204 date=1290242003]
I remember reading about that Ince incident; I thought Houillier handled the guv'nor superbly.
I hate the fact that we've had TWO top managers who could have made us greats again but ultimately fell short 🙁
Though I'd say Ged's shortcomings were mainly his own and Rafa was unlucky in some things.
[/quote]
Yeah, it's own fault for wishing for a heart failure.
[/quote]
Well, I suppose it was a bit hard to make out, Squiggs; but I WAS referring to his buying of many many shit players.
I suppose some might see that I was suggesting he wished for a heart condition.
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42531.msg1221204#msg1221204 date=1290242003]
I remember reading about that Ince incident; I thought Houillier handled the guv'nor superbly.
I hate the fact that we've had TWO top managers who could have made us greats again but ultimately fell short 🙁
Though I'd say Ged's shortcomings were mainly his own and Rafa was unlucky in some things.
[/quote]
Yeah, it's own fault for wishing for a heart failure.
[/quote]
Well, I suppose it was a bit hard to make out, Squiggs; but I WAS referring to his buying of many many shit players.
I suppose some might see that I was suggesting he wished for a heart condition.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42531.msg1221963#msg1221963 date=1290362426]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=42531.msg1221912#msg1221912 date=1290357312]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42531.msg1220016#msg1220016 date=1290019716]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42531.msg1220012#msg1220012 date=1290019351]
Houllier was brilliant until his illness and then we fell short, but I think that team with McAllister, Barmby, Hamann etc was one of the best I've seen play under us, when you thrown in a younger Carragher, Owen and Gerrard, it was a great side.
I think his illness affected him badly and it seemed to creep into his mindset for games, he didn't have the courage to go for games, although it's worth stressing that he could be quite cautious anyway, as found out with our reputation on the continent during the UEFA Cup run, but anyway, he's a good manager, just incredibly stubborn.
[/quote]
I've never been sure how much of a difference GH's illness actually made in the end. The highlighted bit, which is true, was evident well before he got sick.
It's a real shame that our last two managers, after doing so much for the club, were derailed in the end by their own stubbornness.
[/quote]
I remember having this argument with you years ago Judge; I always thought GH came back a shadow of the manager who had led the team so well in the previous years. He was always cautious but he seemed, after his heart problems, to almost be trying to talk himself into the idea that he needed to attack. He couldn't seem to trust himself. It was interesting to read this article and see that Ged feels he was shattered after the heart scare as well.
I do remember a comment made on Koptalk years ago that if Houllier had walked away after being hospitalised then he'd almost certainly be a Kop Legend; I think that was exactly right.
[/quote]
So do I and, as GH's regime stuttered towards its conclusion, I remember saying that one of the saddest aspects of it all was that his legacy would suffer the longer he clung on. As it is, he still deserves perhaps honorary Legend status for that still incredible Treble.
I've actually shifted my ground on this a little.The fact that I now say I'm not sure how much difference GH's illness made, whereas before I was adamant that it hadn't made any, isn't accidental. Your views back then persuaded me at least to be less certain on the subject (though I note with some interest that you accept he was always cautious). Perhaps, as so often, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
[/quote]
Yeah, no argument that he was very cautious - ultimately too cautious. I thought there were two issues that destroyed GH during his last seasons. First was the heart condition - apart from his incredibly emotional return to Anfield when we did Roma 2-0 to go through in the CL, everything he touched seemed average or destructive after his return including his signings. Second was the cautious nature - I think the players struggled to keep up that kind of intensity over several consecutive seasons. There were no "walk in the parks" even when we were flying high; they were mostly 1-0, 2-0 or 2-1 victory's which required lots of effort from all the players. That takes its toll and I think that last season and a half was just the players couldn't pick themselves up for every game; with such fine margins of victory in so many matches it didn't take much of a drop in performance to turn 3 points into 1 or even 0.
I will say, however, that IMO he's been the manager who most loved the club in the last 20 years. Even Souness didn't, IMO, have as much of a passionate, absolute devotion to Anfield; he clearly loved Liverpool and it was a part of his heart. Souness, Roy - they loved the club but not with the same unconditional approach that GH had. Rafa I never really bought the idea he truly loved the club - he wanted it to do well because it served his interests. I'm not, at this point, convinced at all that he truly loved the club.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=42531.msg1221912#msg1221912 date=1290357312]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42531.msg1220016#msg1220016 date=1290019716]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42531.msg1220012#msg1220012 date=1290019351]
Houllier was brilliant until his illness and then we fell short, but I think that team with McAllister, Barmby, Hamann etc was one of the best I've seen play under us, when you thrown in a younger Carragher, Owen and Gerrard, it was a great side.
I think his illness affected him badly and it seemed to creep into his mindset for games, he didn't have the courage to go for games, although it's worth stressing that he could be quite cautious anyway, as found out with our reputation on the continent during the UEFA Cup run, but anyway, he's a good manager, just incredibly stubborn.
[/quote]
I've never been sure how much of a difference GH's illness actually made in the end. The highlighted bit, which is true, was evident well before he got sick.
It's a real shame that our last two managers, after doing so much for the club, were derailed in the end by their own stubbornness.
[/quote]
I remember having this argument with you years ago Judge; I always thought GH came back a shadow of the manager who had led the team so well in the previous years. He was always cautious but he seemed, after his heart problems, to almost be trying to talk himself into the idea that he needed to attack. He couldn't seem to trust himself. It was interesting to read this article and see that Ged feels he was shattered after the heart scare as well.
I do remember a comment made on Koptalk years ago that if Houllier had walked away after being hospitalised then he'd almost certainly be a Kop Legend; I think that was exactly right.
[/quote]
So do I and, as GH's regime stuttered towards its conclusion, I remember saying that one of the saddest aspects of it all was that his legacy would suffer the longer he clung on. As it is, he still deserves perhaps honorary Legend status for that still incredible Treble.
I've actually shifted my ground on this a little.The fact that I now say I'm not sure how much difference GH's illness made, whereas before I was adamant that it hadn't made any, isn't accidental. Your views back then persuaded me at least to be less certain on the subject (though I note with some interest that you accept he was always cautious). Perhaps, as so often, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
[/quote]
Yeah, no argument that he was very cautious - ultimately too cautious. I thought there were two issues that destroyed GH during his last seasons. First was the heart condition - apart from his incredibly emotional return to Anfield when we did Roma 2-0 to go through in the CL, everything he touched seemed average or destructive after his return including his signings. Second was the cautious nature - I think the players struggled to keep up that kind of intensity over several consecutive seasons. There were no "walk in the parks" even when we were flying high; they were mostly 1-0, 2-0 or 2-1 victory's which required lots of effort from all the players. That takes its toll and I think that last season and a half was just the players couldn't pick themselves up for every game; with such fine margins of victory in so many matches it didn't take much of a drop in performance to turn 3 points into 1 or even 0.
I will say, however, that IMO he's been the manager who most loved the club in the last 20 years. Even Souness didn't, IMO, have as much of a passionate, absolute devotion to Anfield; he clearly loved Liverpool and it was a part of his heart. Souness, Roy - they loved the club but not with the same unconditional approach that GH had. Rafa I never really bought the idea he truly loved the club - he wanted it to do well because it served his interests. I'm not, at this point, convinced at all that he truly loved the club.
Largely agree, but not about Rafa. I think both the club and the city had genuinely got under the man's skin by the time he left.
I strongly agree with Wizardry on GH's love for the club.
Perhaps not to Houllier's extent - who was a fan anyway - but Benitez left as a fan and an honorary scouser.
S
Squiggles
Guest
I think Benitez loved us as much as he's capable of loving a football club.
Well put Squiggles.
I agree that Houllier was, and probably still is, a huge fan of Liverpool, both the club and the city.
Benitez I imagine also loved it here but I suspect he very deliberately does not form emotional attachment in his work to the extent that Houllier seemed to.
I think we're being slightly harsh on Evans though. A red through and through who even when treated quite badly left quietly and without a fuss. I think it was just that he was from that bootroom era where they just got on with the job without making a big show of it.
Benitez I imagine also loved it here but I suspect he very deliberately does not form emotional attachment in his work to the extent that Houllier seemed to.
I think we're being slightly harsh on Evans though. A red through and through who even when treated quite badly left quietly and without a fuss. I think it was just that he was from that bootroom era where they just got on with the job without making a big show of it.
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42531.msg1222452#msg1222452 date=1290453234]
I agree that Houllier was, and probably still is, a huge fan of Liverpool, both the club and the city.
Benitez I imagine also loved it here but I suspect he very deliberately does not form emotional attachment in his work to the extent that Houllier seemed to.
I think we're being slightly harsh on Evans though. A red through and through who even when treated quite badly left quietly and without a fuss. I think it was just that he was from that bootroom era where they just got on with the job without making a big show of it.
[/quote]
Uncle Roy was/is a totally decent bloke, and a very good coach. He was just too soft to be a manager, and we ended up with a piss-taking bunch of tossers playing for us as a result of that.
I agree that Houllier was, and probably still is, a huge fan of Liverpool, both the club and the city.
Benitez I imagine also loved it here but I suspect he very deliberately does not form emotional attachment in his work to the extent that Houllier seemed to.
I think we're being slightly harsh on Evans though. A red through and through who even when treated quite badly left quietly and without a fuss. I think it was just that he was from that bootroom era where they just got on with the job without making a big show of it.
[/quote]
Uncle Roy was/is a totally decent bloke, and a very good coach. He was just too soft to be a manager, and we ended up with a piss-taking bunch of tossers playing for us as a result of that.
That's true but I think it cuts both ways. Some of those tossers could have been better players and won more if Roy had been a better manager. There's a reason clubs have managers in the first place.
IMO with GH, from day one, it was obvious that he loved the club. I had the feeling that even if Real Madrid came calling and we were stuck in 15th place, GH would have rejected Madrid without even a hesitation.
When Rafa came, he respected the club and the traditions and was a fan of what he stood for. But he was a Madrid fan. I felt he would be here for five to six years and build a good team, hopefully win the league and leave to manage Madrid or Spain. However, I think by the third and fourth year, the club and the fans got under his skin.
GH's connection felt more like Carra's; whereas with Rafa it was like Stevie G , if that makes any sense.
When Rafa came, he respected the club and the traditions and was a fan of what he stood for. But he was a Madrid fan. I felt he would be here for five to six years and build a good team, hopefully win the league and leave to manage Madrid or Spain. However, I think by the third and fourth year, the club and the fans got under his skin.
GH's connection felt more like Carra's; whereas with Rafa it was like Stevie G , if that makes any sense.
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=42531.msg1222497#msg1222497 date=1290457063]
That's true but I think it cuts both ways. Some of those tossers could have been better players and won more if Roy had been a better manager. There's a reason clubs have managers in the first place.
[/quote]
Agreed, but part of the reason why Roy was so lenient was because the Souness era was in many ways almost tyranical; which led to a lot of resentment in practically the entire squad.
He probably did let it get too far though.
Some of the piss-taking was quite sickening.
That's true but I think it cuts both ways. Some of those tossers could have been better players and won more if Roy had been a better manager. There's a reason clubs have managers in the first place.
[/quote]
Agreed, but part of the reason why Roy was so lenient was because the Souness era was in many ways almost tyranical; which led to a lot of resentment in practically the entire squad.
He probably did let it get too far though.
Some of the piss-taking was quite sickening.
[quote author=peekay link=topic=42531.msg1222554#msg1222554 date=1290462667]
IMO with GH, from day one, it was obvious that he loved the club. I had the feeling that even if Real Madrid came calling and we were stuck in 15th place, GH would have rejected Madrid without even a hesitation.
When Rafa came, he respected the club and the traditions and was a fan of what he stood for. But he was a Madrid fan. I felt he would be here for five to six years and build a good team, hopefully win the league and leave to manage Madrid or Spain. However, I think by the third and fourth year, the club and the fans got under his skin.
GH's connection felt more like Carra's; whereas with Rafa it was like Stevie G , if that makes any sense.
[/quote]
I see what you're driving at with Carra and Stevie, but I don't agree. IMO Stevie's connection is as powerful and deeply rooted as Carra's. He'd be a Chelsea player now had that not been the case.
Good summary otherwise.
IMO with GH, from day one, it was obvious that he loved the club. I had the feeling that even if Real Madrid came calling and we were stuck in 15th place, GH would have rejected Madrid without even a hesitation.
When Rafa came, he respected the club and the traditions and was a fan of what he stood for. But he was a Madrid fan. I felt he would be here for five to six years and build a good team, hopefully win the league and leave to manage Madrid or Spain. However, I think by the third and fourth year, the club and the fans got under his skin.
GH's connection felt more like Carra's; whereas with Rafa it was like Stevie G , if that makes any sense.
[/quote]
I see what you're driving at with Carra and Stevie, but I don't agree. IMO Stevie's connection is as powerful and deeply rooted as Carra's. He'd be a Chelsea player now had that not been the case.
Good summary otherwise.
[quote author=peekay link=topic=42531.msg1222554#msg1222554 date=1290462667]
IMO with GH, from day one, it was obvious that he loved the club. I had the feeling that even if Real Madrid came calling and we were stuck in 15th place, GH would have rejected Madrid without even a hesitation.
When Rafa came, he respected the club and the traditions and was a fan of what he stood for. But he was a Madrid fan. I felt he would be here for five to six years and build a good team, hopefully win the league and leave to manage Madrid or Spain. However, I think by the third and fourth year, the club and the fans got under his skin.
GH's connection felt more like Carra's; whereas with Rafa it was like Stevie G , if that makes any sense.
[/quote]
Not really. Gerrard has supported Liverpool all his life. Carra hasn't. Both are equally Liverpool through and through now, though. Which is why Gerrard is still here, despite being courted by every top club in the world over the last 5 years.
IMO with GH, from day one, it was obvious that he loved the club. I had the feeling that even if Real Madrid came calling and we were stuck in 15th place, GH would have rejected Madrid without even a hesitation.
When Rafa came, he respected the club and the traditions and was a fan of what he stood for. But he was a Madrid fan. I felt he would be here for five to six years and build a good team, hopefully win the league and leave to manage Madrid or Spain. However, I think by the third and fourth year, the club and the fans got under his skin.
GH's connection felt more like Carra's; whereas with Rafa it was like Stevie G , if that makes any sense.
[/quote]
Not really. Gerrard has supported Liverpool all his life. Carra hasn't. Both are equally Liverpool through and through now, though. Which is why Gerrard is still here, despite being courted by every top club in the world over the last 5 years.
[quote author=peekay link=topic=42531.msg1222554#msg1222554 date=1290462667]
IMO with GH, from day one, it was obvious that he loved the club. I had the feeling that even if Real Madrid came calling and we were stuck in 15th place, GH would have rejected Madrid without even a hesitation.
When Rafa came, he respected the club and the traditions and was a fan of what he stood for. But he was a Madrid fan. I felt he would be here for five to six years and build a good team, hopefully win the league and leave to manage Madrid or Spain. However, I think by the third and fourth year, the club and the fans got under his skin.
GH's connection felt more like Carra's; whereas with Rafa it was like Stevie G , if that makes any sense.
[/quote]
Not that I'm suggesting he would have gone but Carra has never been courted by the Chelsea's, Man City's and Real Madrid's of the world like Stevie. Gerrard has proved his life long love for Liverpool in the face of the best efforts of the richest and most likely trophy winning teams in the world.
I know what you're saying but I just don't agree that Carra has a greater or more passionate love forhis club.
IMO with GH, from day one, it was obvious that he loved the club. I had the feeling that even if Real Madrid came calling and we were stuck in 15th place, GH would have rejected Madrid without even a hesitation.
When Rafa came, he respected the club and the traditions and was a fan of what he stood for. But he was a Madrid fan. I felt he would be here for five to six years and build a good team, hopefully win the league and leave to manage Madrid or Spain. However, I think by the third and fourth year, the club and the fans got under his skin.
GH's connection felt more like Carra's; whereas with Rafa it was like Stevie G , if that makes any sense.
[/quote]
Not that I'm suggesting he would have gone but Carra has never been courted by the Chelsea's, Man City's and Real Madrid's of the world like Stevie. Gerrard has proved his life long love for Liverpool in the face of the best efforts of the richest and most likely trophy winning teams in the world.
I know what you're saying but I just don't agree that Carra has a greater or more passionate love forhis club.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=42531.msg1222707#msg1222707 date=1290515588]
[quote author=peekay link=topic=42531.msg1222554#msg1222554 date=1290462667]
IMO with GH, from day one, it was obvious that he loved the club. I had the feeling that even if Real Madrid came calling and we were stuck in 15th place, GH would have rejected Madrid without even a hesitation.
When Rafa came, he respected the club and the traditions and was a fan of what he stood for. But he was a Madrid fan. I felt he would be here for five to six years and build a good team, hopefully win the league and leave to manage Madrid or Spain. However, I think by the third and fourth year, the club and the fans got under his skin.
GH's connection felt more like Carra's; whereas with Rafa it was like Stevie G , if that makes any sense.
[/quote]
Not that I'm suggesting he would have gone but Carra has never been courted by the Chelsea's, Man City's and Real Madrid's of the world like Stevie. Gerrard has proved his life long love for Liverpool in the face of the best efforts of the richest and most likely trophy winning teams in the world.
I know what you're saying but I just don't agree that Carra has a greater or more passionate love forhis club.
[/quote]
JJ, Brendan and Wiz
I am not saying that Carra's love for the club is greater or has a greater connection than that of Stevie G. I dunno if I can express it correctly and most probably I wont 🙂). With Carra, we got the feeling that he would never ever leave. With Stevie G, I did not have the same confidence after the Chelsea incident. He has proved it over the years though and I am grateful to it.
With Rafa it was the same, the first few years, when he got irritated with Parry, immediately Ballague will release an article about how Madrid are making moves for Rafa. It was only later that all those disappeared.
[quote author=peekay link=topic=42531.msg1222554#msg1222554 date=1290462667]
IMO with GH, from day one, it was obvious that he loved the club. I had the feeling that even if Real Madrid came calling and we were stuck in 15th place, GH would have rejected Madrid without even a hesitation.
When Rafa came, he respected the club and the traditions and was a fan of what he stood for. But he was a Madrid fan. I felt he would be here for five to six years and build a good team, hopefully win the league and leave to manage Madrid or Spain. However, I think by the third and fourth year, the club and the fans got under his skin.
GH's connection felt more like Carra's; whereas with Rafa it was like Stevie G , if that makes any sense.
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Not that I'm suggesting he would have gone but Carra has never been courted by the Chelsea's, Man City's and Real Madrid's of the world like Stevie. Gerrard has proved his life long love for Liverpool in the face of the best efforts of the richest and most likely trophy winning teams in the world.
I know what you're saying but I just don't agree that Carra has a greater or more passionate love forhis club.
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JJ, Brendan and Wiz
I am not saying that Carra's love for the club is greater or has a greater connection than that of Stevie G. I dunno if I can express it correctly and most probably I wont 🙂). With Carra, we got the feeling that he would never ever leave. With Stevie G, I did not have the same confidence after the Chelsea incident. He has proved it over the years though and I am grateful to it.
With Rafa it was the same, the first few years, when he got irritated with Parry, immediately Ballague will release an article about how Madrid are making moves for Rafa. It was only later that all those disappeared.
Came across this column article dated a wk ago. Just for reads - "insight" into Martin O'Neill's training methods (vs Houllier's). Latter part probably explains why Warnock's fallen out of favour, too.
Just for reads?
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