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Five Short-Term Strategies For Rafa...

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[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37458.msg999917#msg999917 date=1259284645]
Well, as I say, it was just a hunch. Probably based on recent games too. Despite plenty of poeple suggesting otherwise, I just can't see why he would be brought on in that Debrecen game.

He'll obviously play more now that he's recovered from injury, but I can see why Rafa's been reluctant to throw him in just yet.

[/quote]



For

-We were playing mediocre opposition.
-We were in control of the game, 19 shot to their one shot at one stage.
-He needs playing time to regain match fitness and it is unlikely he will feature heavily in our next two games, Everton and Blackburn.

Against
-He isn't ready.

Will we have to just wait it out to see what happens. Think this debate is really like flogging a dead horse at this stage as no one is privy to Rafa's reasons.

*Case closed*
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37458.msg999922#msg999922 date=1259285406]
- We won the game without him is your biggest 'Against' Dave.
[/quote]

If Lyon had scored, we'd have needed 5 without a reply against Fiorentina. The objective should not have been merely to win the game, but to win it handsomely. Whatever the case, Aquilani should have had a run out for me. If he's not fit to play 20 mins against tired, sub-standard opposition then he shouldn't have been anywhere near the bench.
 
Ryan, winning the game and Aqualani playing are not mutually exclusive.
I sure we could still have won and given him a run out.

As I said earlier, this debate is going around in circles.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37458.msg999925#msg999925 date=1259285698]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37458.msg999922#msg999922 date=1259285406]
- We won the game without him is your biggest 'Against' Dave.
[/quote]

If Lyon had scored, we'd have needed 5 without a reply against Fiorentina. The objective should not have been merely to win the game, but to win it handsomely. Whatever the case, Aquilani should have had a run out for me. If he's not fit to play 20 mins against tired, sub-standard opposition then he shouldn't have been anywhere near the bench.
[/quote]

The pitch was shite, we were comfortable in midfield, Rafa had to make 2 of the 3 substitutions he did, blah blah blah... I've gone through it before.

And besides, wouldn't we only have had to score 3 against Fiorentina? Plus, I love this theory that Aquilani coming on as a sub automatically ensures we've got a much better chance of scoring goals. Where the fuck has that come from? Certainly not from his record of playing with Roma or Italy anyway.

We're going round in circles here mate.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37458.msg999928#msg999928 date=1259286248]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37458.msg999925#msg999925 date=1259285698]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37458.msg999922#msg999922 date=1259285406]
- We won the game without him is your biggest 'Against' Dave.
[/quote]

If Lyon had scored, we'd have needed 5 without a reply against Fiorentina. The objective should not have been merely to win the game, but to win it handsomely. Whatever the case, Aquilani should have had a run out for me. If he's not fit to play 20 mins against tired, sub-standard opposition then he shouldn't have been anywhere near the bench.
[/quote]

The pitch was shite, we were comfortable in midfield, Rafa had to make 2 of the 3 substitutions he did, blah blah blah... I've gone through it before.

And besides, wouldn't we only have had to score 3 against Fiorentina? Plus, I love this theory that Aquilani coming on as a sub automatically ensures we've got a much better chance of scoring goals. Where the fuck has that come from? Certainly not from his record of playing with Roma or Italy anyway.

We're going round in circles here mate.
[/quote]

Ryan, didn't you say earlier in your post about your hunch that "Rafa probably views him as being a bit too... attacking maybe". Maybe it is easy to deduce a theory that with an attack minded individual on the pitch we do in fact have a better chance of scoring goals.

Then again you did say it was just a hunch.

I agreewe are going round in cirlces and all ths talk of Aqualani is becoming a little tiresome.
Ah sure we never know what might happen. Rafa might confuse us all by throwing Aqualani in against Everton on sunday. He shocked us by bringing on Lucas and withdrawing Gerrard a season ago. Stranger things have happened.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=37458.msg999933#msg999933 date=1259286871]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37458.msg999928#msg999928 date=1259286248]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37458.msg999925#msg999925 date=1259285698]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37458.msg999922#msg999922 date=1259285406]
- We won the game without him is your biggest 'Against' Dave.
[/quote]

If Lyon had scored, we'd have needed 5 without a reply against Fiorentina. The objective should not have been merely to win the game, but to win it handsomely. Whatever the case, Aquilani should have had a run out for me. If he's not fit to play 20 mins against tired, sub-standard opposition then he shouldn't have been anywhere near the bench.
[/quote]

The pitch was shite, we were comfortable in midfield, Rafa had to make 2 of the 3 substitutions he did, blah blah blah... I've gone through it before.

And besides, wouldn't we only have had to score 3 against Fiorentina? Plus, I love this theory that Aquilani coming on as a sub automatically ensures we've got a much better chance of scoring goals. Where the fuck has that come from? Certainly not from his record of playing with Roma or Italy anyway.

We're going round in circles here mate.
[/quote]

Ryan, didn't you say earlier in your post about your hunch that "Rafa probably views him as being a bit too... attacking maybe". Maybe it is easy to deduce a theory that with an attack minded individual on the pitch we do in fact have a better chance of scoring goals.

Then again you did say it was just a hunch.

I agreewe are going round in cirlces and all ths talk of Aqualani is becoming a little tiresome.
Ah sure we never know what might happen. Rafa might confuse us all by throwing Aqualani in against Everton on sunday. He shocked us by bringing on Lucas and withdrawing Gerrard a season ago. Stranger things have happened.




[/quote]

'Attacking' wasn't the right word, and I knew that at the time. Unpredictable maybe. He seems to just pop up anywehre round the middle, but we've seen fuck all of him, so it's hard to get a decent gauge on him.

And yeah, wouldn't be surprised at all to see him on Sunday.
 
Well silly me!. There was me thinking we bought Aqualini ( for £20 mill), to replace Alonso. At one stage I am pretty sure that Rafa is quoted as saying that he is a better player than Alonso. Ok I understood he was injured and wouldnt figure for 6-8 weeks.

Now it seems that we wernt really expecting that much from his for his first season anyway. Its 27th November and it seems that although he was on the bench there was no way we could expect him to feature against Debrecen.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37458.msg999865#msg999865 date=1259279719]
[quote author=Stu link=topic=37458.msg999586#msg999586 date=1259252312]
Rafa has handled the whole Aquilani situation terribly imo.
[/quote]
Yes, Rafa himself should have fixed his leg a lot earlier.
[/quote]

He's been injury free for 6 weeks now Ryan.
He should be starting games for us at this stage.
 
Aquilani doesn't have to be a world-beater, just better than Lucarse, which isn't a big ask

That will do for me right now, because I'd prefer to see Benitez gone than suffer watching that useless twat one second longer

Purple must play against the Bitters
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37458.msg999928#msg999928 date=1259286248]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37458.msg999925#msg999925 date=1259285698]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37458.msg999922#msg999922 date=1259285406]
- We won the game without him is your biggest 'Against' Dave.
[/quote]

If Lyon had scored, we'd have needed 5 without a reply against Fiorentina. The objective should not have been merely to win the game, but to win it handsomely. Whatever the case, Aquilani should have had a run out for me. If he's not fit to play 20 mins against tired, sub-standard opposition then he shouldn't have been anywhere near the bench.
[/quote]

The pitch was shite, we were comfortable in midfield, Rafa had to make 2 of the 3 substitutions he did, blah blah blah... I've gone through it before.

And besides, wouldn't we only have had to score 3 against Fiorentina? Plus, I love this theory that Aquilani coming on as a sub automatically ensures we've got a much better chance of scoring goals. Where the fuck has that come from? Certainly not from his record of playing with Roma or Italy anyway.

We're going round in circles here mate.
[/quote]

The commentators said at the start of the game that if we put 4 past Debrecen, we would only need a 2-0 against Fiorientina. Presuming they were right, a 1-0 win wasn't going to help us much at all.

My point is that however comfortable we were in midfield (and of course we should be against such poor opposition), we weren't really creating anything. When something isn't working, I think it makes sense to try something different, particularly when you have more attacking options on the bench.

And to answer your question, it was Rafa who highlighted Aquilani's ability to feed the front players as one of the reasons for signing him. Which is exactly what we were lacking against Debrecen - that link between midfield and attack. The strange thing was that Rafa seemed to identify Yossi as a player to provide that (which is fair enough) but chose to swap him for a striker, thus reducing the options he had ahead of him. It was just baffling all round really.

This game was absolutely perfect for Aquilani to get a bit of playing time. Shit opposition, relatively meaningless game, and very little pressure. For whatever reason, Benitez chose not to play him. I know we're going around in circles here but there is no sense in him being on the bench if he's not fit to play. And if he is fit to play, then he should have been given the opportunity.

My nagging concern is that, as has happened in the past, Rafa will resist playing him until such a time as he has no choice, and then he'll be thrown in at the deep-end with little more than a cameo in the Carling Cup as a reference point. I don't think we can afford to pass up such opportunities and if we can, then he should at least be featuring for the Reserves. I mean, how much more gently can we ease him in than with a 20 minute run-out against Debrecen? We have a derby game and then a kick-fest against Fat Sam's Blackburn coming up. Do you fancy either of those as a good opportunity to blood our delicate young Italian? We'll be lucky to see him this side of Christmas at this rate.

And yeah, this is getting pretty repetitive but hey, it's Friday and it's passing the time at least.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37458.msg1000110#msg1000110 date=1259326448]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37458.msg999928#msg999928 date=1259286248]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37458.msg999925#msg999925 date=1259285698]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37458.msg999922#msg999922 date=1259285406]
- We won the game without him is your biggest 'Against' Dave.
[/quote]

If Lyon had scored, we'd have needed 5 without a reply against Fiorentina. The objective should not have been merely to win the game, but to win it handsomely. Whatever the case, Aquilani should have had a run out for me. If he's not fit to play 20 mins against tired, sub-standard opposition then he shouldn't have been anywhere near the bench.
[/quote]

The pitch was shite, we were comfortable in midfield, Rafa had to make 2 of the 3 substitutions he did, blah blah blah... I've gone through it before.

And besides, wouldn't we only have had to score 3 against Fiorentina? Plus, I love this theory that Aquilani coming on as a sub automatically ensures we've got a much better chance of scoring goals. Where the fuck has that come from? Certainly not from his record of playing with Roma or Italy anyway.

We're going round in circles here mate.
[/quote]

The commentators said at the start of the game that if we put 4 past Debrecen, we would only need a 2-0 against Fiorientina. Presuming they were right, a 1-0 win wasn't going to help us much at all.

My point is that however comfortable we were in midfield (and of course we should be against such poor opposition), we weren't really creating anything. When something isn't working, I think it makes sense to try something different, particularly when you have more attacking options on the bench.

And to answer your question, it was Rafa who highlighted Aquilani's ability to feed the front players as one of the reasons for signing him. Which is exactly what we were lacking against Debrecen - that link between midfield and attack. The strange thing was that Rafa seemed to identify Yossi as a player to provide that (which is fair enough) but chose to swap him for a striker, thus reducing the options he had ahead of him. It was just baffling all round really.

This game was absolutely perfect for Aquilani to get a bit of playing time. Shit opposition, relatively meaningless game, and very little pressure. For whatever reason, Benitez chose not to play him. I know we're going around in circles here but there is no sense in him being on the bench if he's not fit to play. And if he is fit to play, then he should have been given the opportunity.

My nagging concern is that, as has happened in the past, Rafa will resist playing him until such a time as he has no choice, and then he'll be thrown in at the deep-end with little more than a cameo in the Carling Cup as a reference point. I don't think we can afford to pass up such opportunities and if we can, then he should at least be featuring for the Reserves. I mean, how much more gently can we ease him in than with a 20 minute run-out against Debrecen? We have a derby game and then a kick-fest against Fat Sam's Blackburn coming up. Do you fancy either of those as a good opportunity to blood our delicate young Italian? We'll be lucky to see him this side of Christmas at this rate.

And yeah, this is getting pretty repetitive but hey, it's Friday and it's passing the time at least.
[/quote]

Agree 100% Del.
 
Surely the most likely scenario with Aquilani is that a scan or something has suggested he needs more time to build up the ankle before resuming full matches? Rafa doesn't make decisions on players fitness solely on his personal choice, that's why he has a whole physio/medical team behind him.

Frankly, speculation about Rafa's handling of Aquilani (he should have played him here/there) should be saved for when we know he's back to full fitness (after a few games).
 
[quote author=Stu link=topic=37458.msg1000073#msg1000073 date=1259323355]

He's been injury free for 6 weeks now Ryan.
He should be starting games for us at this stage.
[/quote]

That is my issue. if he is not ready then why the fuck is he on the bench?
And if he is ready, then get the lad some match fitness. This is Rafas' second most expensive signing ever, we are playing like Accrington Stanley, and Lucas is the only alternative.
 
Lucas is not the only alternative.
As far as I know Gerrard is one of the best central midfielders in the league.
Play him her with Mascher behind 2 fit strikers whether its Babel/N'Gog/ Voronin/ Kuyt etc...
It will always be better than playing with Lucas/Mascher in the middle
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=37458.msg1000185#msg1000185 date=1259334720]
Lucas is not the only alternative.
As far as I know Gerrard is one of the best central midfielders in the league.
Play him her with Mascher behind 2 fit strikers whether its Babel/N'Gog/ Voronin/ Kuyt etc...
It will always be better than playing with Lucas/Mascher in the middle
[/quote]

Ok, but given Reira and Babel are injured, we don't really have any option on the right to replace Kuyt, which means Voronin would play up front, not sure if Lucas is actually a worse option than Voronin. Depressing as that might sound to some.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=37458.msg1000188#msg1000188 date=1259334851]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=37458.msg1000185#msg1000185 date=1259334720]
Lucas is not the only alternative.
As far as I know Gerrard is one of the best central midfielders in the league.
Play him her with Mascher behind 2 fit strikers whether its Babel/N'Gog/ Voronin/ Kuyt etc...
It will always be better than playing with Lucas/Mascher in the middle
[/quote]

Ok, but given Reira and Babel are injured, we don't really have any option on the right to replace Kuyt, which means Voronin would play up front, not sure if Lucas is actually a worse option than Voronin. Depressing as that might sound to some.
[/quote]
Mascher-Gerrard behind N'Gog/Voronin and Benayoun.
Id be happy with that.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37458.msg1000156#msg1000156 date=1259331415]
Surely the most likely scenario with Aquilani is that a scan or something has suggested he needs more time to build up the ankle before resuming full matches? Rafa doesn't make decisions on players fitness solely on his personal choice, that's why he has a whole physio/medical team behind him.

Frankly, speculation about Rafa's handling of Aquilani (he should have played him here/there) should be saved for when we know he's back to full fitness (after a few games).
[/quote]

He shouldn't be on the bench if he isn't able to participate. Either way, Rafa got it wrong as far as I'm concerned.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37458.msg1000191#msg1000191 date=1259335005]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37458.msg1000156#msg1000156 date=1259331415]
Surely the most likely scenario with Aquilani is that a scan or something has suggested he needs more time to build up the ankle before resuming full matches? Rafa doesn't make decisions on players fitness solely on his personal choice, that's why he has a whole physio/medical team behind him.

Frankly, speculation about Rafa's handling of Aquilani (he should have played him here/there) should be saved for when we know he's back to full fitness (after a few games).
[/quote]

He shouldn't be on the bench if he isn't able to participate. Either way, Rafa got it wrong as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]

Why is it so difficult for some people to grasp this concept?
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=37458.msg1000215#msg1000215 date=1259336931]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37458.msg1000191#msg1000191 date=1259335005]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37458.msg1000156#msg1000156 date=1259331415]
Surely the most likely scenario with Aquilani is that a scan or something has suggested he needs more time to build up the ankle before resuming full matches? Rafa doesn't make decisions on players fitness solely on his personal choice, that's why he has a whole physio/medical team behind him.

Frankly, speculation about Rafa's handling of Aquilani (he should have played him here/there) should be saved for when we know he's back to full fitness (after a few games).
[/quote]

He shouldn't be on the bench if he isn't able to participate. Either way, Rafa got it wrong as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]

Why is it so difficult for some people to grasp this concept?
[/quote]

Don't pretend not to understand what the alternative argument is. He'll occasionally include players on the subs bench to make up the numbers, because that's reality of having a weak squad. The alternative is putting Spearing, or any other shit reserve, in Aquilani's place and have no intention of playing them in case of emergency. So all in all, who gives a fuck?

Hope that's an easy enough concept for you.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=37458.msg1000270#msg1000270 date=1259338880]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=37458.msg1000215#msg1000215 date=1259336931]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37458.msg1000191#msg1000191 date=1259335005]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37458.msg1000156#msg1000156 date=1259331415]
Surely the most likely scenario with Aquilani is that a scan or something has suggested he needs more time to build up the ankle before resuming full matches? Rafa doesn't make decisions on players fitness solely on his personal choice, that's why he has a whole physio/medical team behind him.

Frankly, speculation about Rafa's handling of Aquilani (he should have played him here/there) should be saved for when we know he's back to full fitness (after a few games).
[/quote]

He shouldn't be on the bench if he isn't able to participate. Either way, Rafa got it wrong as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]

Why is it so difficult for some people to grasp this concept?
[/quote]

Don't pretend not to understand what the alternative argument is. He'll occasionally include players on the subs bench to make up the numbers, because that's reality of having a weak squad. The alternative is putting Spearing, or any other shit reserve, in Aquilani's place and have no intention of playing them in case of emergency. So all in all, who gives a fuck?

Hope that's an easy enough concept for you.
[/quote]

Strange though it may seem to you some people actually do give a fuck. They dont understand why a player who is only worth a time wasters place on the bench is taking up a place there. Maybe your system of having an unfit player on the bench is the way forward. Who knows?
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=37458.msg1000270#msg1000270 date=1259338880]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=37458.msg1000215#msg1000215 date=1259336931]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37458.msg1000191#msg1000191 date=1259335005]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37458.msg1000156#msg1000156 date=1259331415]
Surely the most likely scenario with Aquilani is that a scan or something has suggested he needs more time to build up the ankle before resuming full matches? Rafa doesn't make decisions on players fitness solely on his personal choice, that's why he has a whole physio/medical team behind him.

Frankly, speculation about Rafa's handling of Aquilani (he should have played him here/there) should be saved for when we know he's back to full fitness (after a few games).
[/quote]

He shouldn't be on the bench if he isn't able to participate. Either way, Rafa got it wrong as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]

Why is it so difficult for some people to grasp this concept?
[/quote]

Don't pretend not to understand what the alternative argument is. He'll occasionally include players on the subs bench to make up the numbers, because that's reality of having a weak squad. The alternative is putting Spearing, or any other shit reserve, in Aquilani's place and have no intention of playing them in case of emergency. So all in all, who gives a fuck?

Hope that's an easy enough concept for you.
[/quote]

I'm sorry Squigs, but that doesn't wash at all. What if there was an emergency? If Spearing can play, he should have the place every time. Besides, what kind of message does it send out to youngsters if crooked first-team players are preferred as bench warmers?

The substitutes bench should consist wholly of players who are capable of being substitutes. Not star signings who aren't.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37458.msg1000303#msg1000303 date=1259339990]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=37458.msg1000270#msg1000270 date=1259338880]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=37458.msg1000215#msg1000215 date=1259336931]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37458.msg1000191#msg1000191 date=1259335005]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=37458.msg1000156#msg1000156 date=1259331415]
Surely the most likely scenario with Aquilani is that a scan or something has suggested he needs more time to build up the ankle before resuming full matches? Rafa doesn't make decisions on players fitness solely on his personal choice, that's why he has a whole physio/medical team behind him.

Frankly, speculation about Rafa's handling of Aquilani (he should have played him here/there) should be saved for when we know he's back to full fitness (after a few games).
[/quote]

He shouldn't be on the bench if he isn't able to participate. Either way, Rafa got it wrong as far as I'm concerned.
[/quote]

Why is it so difficult for some people to grasp this concept?
[/quote]

Don't pretend not to understand what the alternative argument is. He'll occasionally include players on the subs bench to make up the numbers, because that's reality of having a weak squad. The alternative is putting Spearing, or any other shit reserve, in Aquilani's place and have no intention of playing them in case of emergency. So all in all, who gives a fuck?

Hope that's an easy enough concept for you.
[/quote]

I'm sorry Squigs, but that doesn't wash at all. What if there was an emergency? If Spearing can play, he should have the place every time. Besides, what kind of message does it send out to youngsters if crooked first-team players are preferred as bench warmers?

The substitutes bench should consist wholly of players who are capable of being substitutes. Not star signings who aren't.
[/quote]

I agree, but does it deserve the ludicrous reaction on here? Not a chance.
 
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