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FIVE Reasons for Liverpool’s Defensive Demise

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Written by David Tully from Live4Liverpool.com

No Established Centre Back Partnership – An important part of keeping it tight at the back relies on keeping the same personnel in the same positions so every knows what to expect from each other. This season has seen both Roy Hodgson and Kenny Dalglish utilise a number of centre back defensive partnerships. We started the season with Martin Skrtel and Jamie Carragher, we then had combinations of either Soto with Carra or Skrtel with Soto before Jamie’s injury left us with Skrtel and Kyrgiakos only fit. Needless to say this partnership was only going to end in tears as both players are neither fast nor have any ability on the ball. It led to both the team playing deeper and deeper, (as evidenced on Match of the Day 2 yesterday after Kyrgiakos replaced Agger) as well as a lack of ball being played out from the back.

The Form of Kyrgiakos – The Big Greek was on tremendous form last season, and he was a bargain buy by Rafa at a time when we needed an aerial presence at the back to replace the great Sami Hyypia. He also started this season pretty well, scoring his fair share of goals from corners as well as defending his own penalty area. He was however abject in Roy Hodgson’s last game in charge against Blackburn Rovers and was substituted at half time, and he was partly at fault for the second Everton goal yesterday when he was pulled out of position allowing Jermaine Beckford to get in behind with only Raul Meireles for company to stop him scoring. There was no coincidence that our defending became decidedly dodgier and our team started to play deeper once Soto came on for the ill Agger at half time.

The Form of Glen Johnson – Not much needs to be said about this, but when Glen is not playing well, his defensive displays are absolutely shocking. He can be fantastic going forward but his form at right back this season has not been up to the standard required. His worst display came against Blackpool earlier on in the season at Anfield when he was at fault for both goals. I am quite worried at the prospect of him playing out of position at left back, and although still a threat going forward, his defensive vulnerabilities still worry me. Perhaps a move to right wing could be in order?

No Left Back – The departure of Emiliano Insua on loan to be replaced by the equally mediocre Paul Konchesky was one of the biggest gripes of Roy Hodgson’s tenure as manager. Since his departure, Kenny Dalglish immediately replaced Konchesky with Fabio Aurelio against Manchester United, but mindful of his injury record, Kenny left Aurelio out against Blackpool and Everton, and he has had to put Johnson in an unnatural left side role. We are in desperate need this January for another left back. Marseille’s Taye Taiwo’s contract is up in the summer; perhaps a bid for the Nigerian could be a possibility?

Mascherano’s Absence – The departure of the Argentinean midfield destroyer was always going to be felt, and although Lucas had done admirably in his absence, the Brazilian is still finding his way in the game while Masch had the ability with his pace and tackling to break up opposition counter attacks, something Lucas doesn’t currently do as well. With Christian Poulsen not performing, and an average Jay Spearing playing against Everton, a proper replacement for Masch is needed to help the Liverpool backline keep clean sheets.
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I tend to agree with most of it.
However I'd like to add "Letting Hyypia go"
 
Selling Riise and Hyppia, Agger being osteoparosisboy, having no DM, having a shit manager and the slowest team in the history of football have all contributed. As has Glen Johnson being fucking shit at defending and Reina having a mid career wobble.
 
Our defence in 2005: Finnan --Hyypia --Carragher -- Riise


Name one defender we've bought who has been better than them

Finnan? Arbeloa was probably just as good. Johnson isn't. Then you have Degen, Josemi, Kromkamp.

Hyypia/Carragher - Pellegrino, Paletta, Kyrgiakos, Agger, Skrtel, - none of them will ever be as good.

Riise - Aurelio, Dossena, Insua, Konchesky.


It's sad.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43697.msg1256444#msg1256444 date=1295391549]
Our defence in 2005: Finnan --Hyypia --Carragher -- Riise


Name one defender we've bought who has been better than them

Finnan? Arbeloa was probably just as good. Johnson isn't. Then you have Degen, Josemi, Kromkamp.

Hyypia/Carragher - Pellegrino, Paletta, Kyrgiakos, Agger, Skrtel, - none of them will ever be as good.

Riise - Aurelio, Dossena, Insua, Konchesky.


It's sad.
[/quote]

When you put it like that it's quite evident how far off we are.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43697.msg1256444#msg1256444 date=1295391549]
Our defence in 2005: Finnan --Hyypia --Carragher -- Riise


Name one defender we've bought who has been better than them

Finnan? Arbeloa was probably just as good. Johnson isn't. Then you have Degen, Josemi, Kromkamp.

Hyypia/Carragher - Pellegrino, Paletta, Kyrgiakos, Agger, Skrtel, - none of them will ever be as good.

Riise - Aurelio, Dossena, Insua, Konchesky.


It's sad.
[/quote]Innit doh.

Im not having Arbeloa as good as Finnan though. For three or four years Finnan was amazing. Arbeloa had some good games and some bad ones.
 
IMO Finnan was better I agree. But Arbeloa wasn't far off.
The fact that Arbeloa is currently playing for Real kinda proves how good he is.
 
For me we lost it last Summer. Firstly with Johnson and Insua becoming our new fullbacks, neither would tuck in and both have zero positional sense and are fairly poor defenders anyway. People have layed into our centre backs, but since they started getting exposed in this way, that's when we've seen their form drop. Whether they need over protecting is another debate, but they've seen their weaknesses magnified since we lost the solidity of the likes of Finnan, Arbeloa and Riise.

Hyypia was an influence and probably a steadying hand on and off the pitch for our back four, we miss his aerial presence and his ability to read the game.

When at our best we were compact. Our back four would defend closer together so they wouldn't get stretched, one full back would cover the other by dropping back and inside to act as a 3rd centre back, while they were well protected by at least one defensive midfielder probing the edge of the box and averting danger.

As for Soto, as endearing as he is, he's not good enough on the deck, he's too rash, slow and frankly, nowhere near good enough. We lost it against Spurs when he came on, and the same again at the weekend against Everton. Nice lad, wears his heart on his sleeve, poor player.
 
Spot on marky.

Btw the original article also mentions Taiwo being free after the season. If so we really should bid om him during this window.
 
Kelly should be our first choice right back. Kenny should try playing Johnson wide right in place of Dirk. If that doesn't work, he should sell Johnson in the summer. 🙂
 
Re: FIVE Reasons for Liverpool's Defensive Demise

--year -----goals conceded-------Manager
01/02----------30--------------------GH
02/03----------41--------------------GH
03/04----------37--------------------GH
04/05----------41--------------------RB
05/06----------25--------------------RB
06/07----------27--------------------RB
07/08----------28--------------------RB
08/09----------27--------------------RB
09/10----------35--------------------RB
10/11----------31 (22 games)-------RH

In a "disaster" season 09/10, we conceded 35 goals which were THIRD behind MU and chelsea. So all our players are shit defenders now? Our irreplaceable former defenders also conceded more goals during 02-05. So what are the real problems?
 
Re: FIVE Reasons for Liverpool's Defensive Demise

[quote author=justdoit link=topic=43697.msg1256628#msg1256628 date=1295417843]
--year -----goals conceded-------Manager
01/02----------30--------------------GH
02/03----------41--------------------GH
03/04----------37--------------------GH
04/05----------41--------------------RB
05/06----------25--------------------RB
06/07----------27--------------------RB
07/08----------28--------------------RB
08/09----------27--------------------RB
09/10----------35--------------------RB
10/11----------31 (22 games)-------RH

In a "disaster" season 09/10, we conceded 35 goals which were THIRD behind MU and chelsea. So all our players are shit defenders now? Our irreplaceable former defenders also conceded more goals during 02-05. So what are the real problems?
[/quote]

During the Houllier "era" and early on during Rafas "era" we focused more on the defensive side of the game. You can go as far as to say that we played defensively especially with Houllier in charge.
We had great defensive midfielders in Hamann, Sissoko, Mascherano and to an extent Alonso.
Now we're stuck with Lucas and Poulsen.
I believe the real issue is the midfield. We're missing a world class defensive midfielder.
 
personally I think the main reason is the the protection given by the rest of the team, the centre midfield in perticular also fullbacks who get forwards more (because they have to as there would be no width other wise)

to improve the defense we need to improve the centre of midfield. we also need a dominant header of the ball at centre back that plays every game.
 
No-one wants to say it, but changing from zonal to man for man marking probably hasn't helped. Our CBs think that they have to get in a wrestling bout with the player being marked. I don't need to look at the stats to know we've been much more fragile from set-pieces since we abandoned zonal marking.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43697.msg1256656#msg1256656 date=1295424360]
No-one wants to say it, but changing from zonal to man for man marking probably hasn't helped. Our CBs think that they have to get in a wrestling bout with the player being marked. I don't need to look at the stats to know we've been much more fragile from set-pieces since we abandoned zonal marking.
[/quote]

We haven't defended that badly from setpieces though, ironically. The only thing I've noticed is that teams have gotten on to the fact that if they win a header and flick it across goal, we're struggling to win the second ball. By and large though haven't most of our conceded goals come from open play?
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43697.msg1256668#msg1256668 date=1295425617]
Weren't we awful in 09/10 at defending set pieces ?


[/quote]

Yeah, that's what I mean, since Rafa we seem to have defended them better, we just ship goals from open play instead.
 
Whenever we conceede a corner or a setpiece within our own half we're in for some nail-biting defensive-play in my opinion.

I don't think we've become any better on set-pieces, actually I think we're just a poor as we were during Rafa's last year, if not worse. Whenever Everton had a set-piece somewhere on the pitch they lofted it towards our penatly-area and we struggled with it every time. It seems a few of our opponents has called Skrtel's complete lack of confidence and constantly hails balls towards him.

They scored their first after a corner and they were unlucky not to score another after Felliani knocked it down for Beckford in the first half, much similar play to Blackpools second goal after a set-piece in midweek too.
 
[quote author=Krump link=topic=43697.msg1256704#msg1256704 date=1295428956]
It's not just a lack of confidence with Skrtel. He's just plain shit
[/quote]
He's not got the aqcuired level to play for us week in week out, but he's not completely shit.

Unless of course he lacks confidence or Carra (and to some extent Agger) beside him.
 
The thing with Skrtel is that he seems to have all the attributes to be a good aggressive premiership centreback - but his 50p head, and single digits IQ does count against him.

What really harms him is playing with someone like The Greek - where both of them want to compete for the ball rather than try and read the game, or with Agger where seemingly there isnt a clear leader.

What annoyed me about Roy was that he could clearly see that Skrtel and Soro were fucking APPALLING together...and still kept picking them. Why not give Wilson a chance?
 
Agree with the above, but may i just add (and some of you won't like it) the loss of Rafa. As we know he was very meticulous with his tactics, especially defending. As i've already said, he was able to get the best out of what (ordianary) defenders we had.

*it isn't my intention to turn this into another rafa debate, but just highlighting what I believe was one of his strengths*
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43697.msg1256444#msg1256444 date=1295391549]
Our defence in 2005: Finnan --Hyypia --Carragher -- Riise


Name one defender we've bought who has been better than them

Finnan? Arbeloa was probably just as good. Johnson isn't. Then you have Degen, Josemi, Kromkamp.

Hyypia/Carragher - Pellegrino, Paletta, Kyrgiakos, Agger, Skrtel, - none of them will ever be as good.

Riise - Aurelio, Dossena, Insua, Konchesky.


It's sad.
[/quote]

Yes, its pretty much as simple as that.

We had good defenders and replaced them with not so good ones.

Not sure about this 'Lucas is still finding his way in the game' business either. The fella is 24. How long is it gonna take him?
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=43697.msg1256991#msg1256991 date=1295446489]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43697.msg1256444#msg1256444 date=1295391549]
Our defence in 2005: Finnan --Hyypia --Carragher -- Riise


Name one defender we've bought who has been better than them

Finnan? Arbeloa was probably just as good. Johnson isn't. Then you have Degen, Josemi, Kromkamp.

Hyypia/Carragher - Pellegrino, Paletta, Kyrgiakos, Agger, Skrtel, - none of them will ever be as good.

Riise - Aurelio, Dossena, Insua, Konchesky.


It's sad.
[/quote]

Yes, its pretty much as simple as that.

We had good defenders and replaced them with not so good ones.

Not sure about this 'Lucas is still finding his way in the game' business either. The fella is 24. How long is it gonna take him?
[/quote]

not sure if it is that simple, tbh. as mr_moo pointed out, under benitez the personnel got worse but the defence got better. even last season we conceded fewer goals than in the treble year.
 
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