Ferguson: Benitez had ample funds
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I think one of the big advantages United had over us in replacing players is that the system they play isnt necessarily over-reliant on the quality of the actual players, whereas for us, the minute you took Alonso out of the deep-lying 2, our entire team's a play went to shit. Just as it would if you took out one of Gerrard or Torres.
However, whenever you seem to take a 'key' player out of United's team, it didnt really have the same effect. They always seem to create chances.
However, whenever you seem to take a 'key' player out of United's team, it didnt really have the same effect. They always seem to create chances.
Wouldn't disagree, but IMO simply being used to winning has a lot to do with it too. Confidence breeds success breeds more confidence, and so on.
Having a brilliant manager helps too.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=41933.msg1176861#msg1176861 date=1284820037]
Having a brilliant manager helps too.
[/quote]
Having a brilliant manager and the British record fee players in Rooney and Ferdinand already in place as well as the experience of winning etc ... The books being helped in their favour to the tune of 80m for Ronaldo probably does some good as well... Yes Alex it's true during 6 years we spent 30 million more than United. We've been selling for nigh on two years now mind you so maybe it will even out in future, after a few more big Texan summers.
Having a brilliant manager helps too.
[/quote]
Having a brilliant manager and the British record fee players in Rooney and Ferdinand already in place as well as the experience of winning etc ... The books being helped in their favour to the tune of 80m for Ronaldo probably does some good as well... Yes Alex it's true during 6 years we spent 30 million more than United. We've been selling for nigh on two years now mind you so maybe it will even out in future, after a few more big Texan summers.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=41933.msg1176861#msg1176861 date=1284820037]
Having a brilliant manager helps too.
[/quote]
To be honest, I don't really see him as a tactically briliant manager.
He's been found more out of his depth than Rafa, arguably.
What he does have is good contacts, the ability to get more out of his players,good transfer sense (mostly) and MOST importantly the ability to bully and threaten his way around the media, the FA, the referees and life in general.
Having a brilliant manager helps too.
[/quote]
To be honest, I don't really see him as a tactically briliant manager.
He's been found more out of his depth than Rafa, arguably.
What he does have is good contacts, the ability to get more out of his players,good transfer sense (mostly) and MOST importantly the ability to bully and threaten his way around the media, the FA, the referees and life in general.
S
Squiggles
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Undermining Fergie is pointless - his record speaks for itself.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=41933.msg1177056#msg1177056 date=1284880352]
Undermining Fergie is pointless - his record speaks for itself.
[/quote]
Indeed. Yesterdays comments by via were designed to defend his mate Roy ( nice touch ) and have a superior crowing dig at Rafa for beating him. Sky loved it.
Undermining Fergie is pointless - his record speaks for itself.
[/quote]
Indeed. Yesterdays comments by via were designed to defend his mate Roy ( nice touch ) and have a superior crowing dig at Rafa for beating him. Sky loved it.
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=41933.msg1177019#msg1177019 date=1284855876]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=41933.msg1176861#msg1176861 date=1284820037]
Having a brilliant manager helps too.
[/quote]
Having a brilliant manager and the British record fee players in Rooney and Ferdinand already in place as well as the experience of winning etc ... The books being helped in their favour to the tune of 80m for Ronaldo probably does some good as well... Yes Alex it's true during 6 years we spent 30 million more than United. We've been selling for nigh on two years now mind you so maybe it will even out in future, after a few more big Texan summers.
[/quote]
They've barely spent any of the Ronaldo money, so having healthy books doesn't really mean much. Benitez might have only seen us break even last Summer, but he still spent over the course of two seasons somewhere in the region of £80m, with only one player proving to be a success (in Johnson), and there are still question marks over that.
Fergie might be a cunt but he's right in what he's saying. During the time Rafa spent moaning about finances and the clubs hierarchy, the money he did get to spend he lashed on shite, regardless of how we generated the transfer money and what he didn't receive, no one can have any complaints when they spend £80m over two seasons and have fuck all to show for it in terms of quality on the pitch or success.
United made their own success through building a set system, having a good youth policy and making some shrewd buys, all that allowed them to then push on and spend big money.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=41933.msg1176861#msg1176861 date=1284820037]
Having a brilliant manager helps too.
[/quote]
Having a brilliant manager and the British record fee players in Rooney and Ferdinand already in place as well as the experience of winning etc ... The books being helped in their favour to the tune of 80m for Ronaldo probably does some good as well... Yes Alex it's true during 6 years we spent 30 million more than United. We've been selling for nigh on two years now mind you so maybe it will even out in future, after a few more big Texan summers.
[/quote]
They've barely spent any of the Ronaldo money, so having healthy books doesn't really mean much. Benitez might have only seen us break even last Summer, but he still spent over the course of two seasons somewhere in the region of £80m, with only one player proving to be a success (in Johnson), and there are still question marks over that.
Fergie might be a cunt but he's right in what he's saying. During the time Rafa spent moaning about finances and the clubs hierarchy, the money he did get to spend he lashed on shite, regardless of how we generated the transfer money and what he didn't receive, no one can have any complaints when they spend £80m over two seasons and have fuck all to show for it in terms of quality on the pitch or success.
United made their own success through building a set system, having a good youth policy and making some shrewd buys, all that allowed them to then push on and spend big money.
80 m ?? In two seasons?? This is a gross spend to replace players leaving is it or?? All I know is that after coming pretty close the season before last the wallet was well and truly shut and the expectation was win the league with no investment. At all Mark.
Fergie is shit stirring simple as that.
I don't think Torres and Mash And Reina and Alonso were shite, it's never the whole story is it .... Yes rafa was a wanker..... Job done point well made Sir Alex.
Fergie is shit stirring simple as that.
I don't think Torres and Mash And Reina and Alonso were shite, it's never the whole story is it .... Yes rafa was a wanker..... Job done point well made Sir Alex.
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=41933.msg1177099#msg1177099 date=1284886934]
80 m ?? In two seasons?? This is a gross spend to replace players leaving is it or?? All I know is that after coming pretty close the season before last the wallet was well and truly shut and the expectation was win the league with no investment. At all Mark.
Fergie is shit stirring simple as that.
I don't think Torres and Mash And Reina and Alonso were shite, it's never the whole story is it .... Yes rafa was a wanker..... Job done point well made Sir Alex.
[/quote]
Seriously mate, who gives a fuck about the gross spend, unless it's someone trying to paper over his fuck up?
And what have Torres and Reina got to do with anything? No one said he didn't buy some good players, the issue is that over the last two seasons he spent £80m in the transfer market, and arguably £60m of it was spent on duds, yet he had the gall to moan about money in the press. Yeah, so we broke even for two seasons, so what? He got the majority of the money to reinvest and he fucked it up.
After coming pretty close the season before, he still spent £40m. He could have identified what we needed better, he could have chosen not to spend half of it on a perma-injured midfielder (whom he ultimately didn't even know how to play). He failed, not for the first time, to do his homework on players.
Who said the expectation was to win the league? The owners? I think the expectation was just slightly higher than finishing a pathetic 7th.
Yes he did some good, he won us the Champions League, he finished second, he bought some excellent players. Is it worth expanding on the flip side? It'll only be retaliated with "yeah, but that's not the whole story, he had the wallet well and truly shut on him and he bought Torres and Alonso", blah blah. It's bollocks and tinted. He did some good and he did some bad and ultimately payed the price for two seasons of poor buys and not capitalising on a strong league finish. Finishing 7th a season later was inexcusable, though I guess that's because poor old Rafa 'lost' Alonso. We all know why that happened.
80 m ?? In two seasons?? This is a gross spend to replace players leaving is it or?? All I know is that after coming pretty close the season before last the wallet was well and truly shut and the expectation was win the league with no investment. At all Mark.
Fergie is shit stirring simple as that.
I don't think Torres and Mash And Reina and Alonso were shite, it's never the whole story is it .... Yes rafa was a wanker..... Job done point well made Sir Alex.
[/quote]
Seriously mate, who gives a fuck about the gross spend, unless it's someone trying to paper over his fuck up?
And what have Torres and Reina got to do with anything? No one said he didn't buy some good players, the issue is that over the last two seasons he spent £80m in the transfer market, and arguably £60m of it was spent on duds, yet he had the gall to moan about money in the press. Yeah, so we broke even for two seasons, so what? He got the majority of the money to reinvest and he fucked it up.
After coming pretty close the season before, he still spent £40m. He could have identified what we needed better, he could have chosen not to spend half of it on a perma-injured midfielder (whom he ultimately didn't even know how to play). He failed, not for the first time, to do his homework on players.
Who said the expectation was to win the league? The owners? I think the expectation was just slightly higher than finishing a pathetic 7th.
Yes he did some good, he won us the Champions League, he finished second, he bought some excellent players. Is it worth expanding on the flip side? It'll only be retaliated with "yeah, but that's not the whole story, he had the wallet well and truly shut on him and he bought Torres and Alonso", blah blah. It's bollocks and tinted. He did some good and he did some bad and ultimately payed the price for two seasons of poor buys and not capitalising on a strong league finish. Finishing 7th a season later was inexcusable, though I guess that's because poor old Rafa 'lost' Alonso. We all know why that happened.
All true he bought two big fuck ups at the end and it cost him and that is undeniable as it is also undeniable that Since 2007/08 we have a net spend of 5.5m. Expand on that. I suppose it all depends on your point of view doesn't it, you clearly think that Rafa was backed enough financially to win the league and I don't, suitably rest assured that i also feel that you are talking bollox.
Which is why this tired old thread should never have been started up again, especially on the back of some amidst jibes from Fergie the eve of the big game, which his cash starved team will most likely win.
Which is why this tired old thread should never have been started up again, especially on the back of some amidst jibes from Fergie the eve of the big game, which his cash starved team will most likely win.
Rafa ruined all his good work in the summer he wasted the best part of 40M on Riera, Keane and Dossena all the whilst chasing Barry and alienating Alonso. At the time he wasn't under severe financial restrictions nor was he replacing anyone significant, it was just a fuck up of a summer on a massive massive scale and I still to this day can't understand what he was hoping to achieve. From that point on, he had very little money to play with, but he'd already made his bed and unless he pulled a couple aces out of his sleeve it was always going to be hard to claw his way out. He didn't though, he just continued to dig himself a hole by wasting more money and alienating players.
The margin for error was pretty slim towards the end and Rafa wasn't up to it. A lot of managers end up leaving their posts having made a mess of things, but the difference is that at other top clubs a bad summer or two wouldn't bring the club to it's knees.
The margin for error was pretty slim towards the end and Rafa wasn't up to it. A lot of managers end up leaving their posts having made a mess of things, but the difference is that at other top clubs a bad summer or two wouldn't bring the club to it's knees.
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=41933.msg1177113#msg1177113 date=1284888670]
All true he bought two big fuck ups at the end and it cost him and that is undeniable as it is also undeniable that Since 2007/08 we have a net spend of 5.5m. Expand on that. I suppose it all depends on your point of view doesn't it, you clearly think that Rafa was backed enough financially to win the league and I don't, suitably rest assured that i also feel that you are talking bollox.
Which is why this tired old thread should never have been started up again, especially on the back of some amidst jibes from Fergie the eve of the big game, which his cash starved team will most likely win.
[/quote]
He had enough to keep us in the top four. He fucked it all up though.
He actually had enough to win the league, imagine if he'd spent 19m on a striker who was good enough for Liverpool ? We'd have walked the league that year.
All true he bought two big fuck ups at the end and it cost him and that is undeniable as it is also undeniable that Since 2007/08 we have a net spend of 5.5m. Expand on that. I suppose it all depends on your point of view doesn't it, you clearly think that Rafa was backed enough financially to win the league and I don't, suitably rest assured that i also feel that you are talking bollox.
Which is why this tired old thread should never have been started up again, especially on the back of some amidst jibes from Fergie the eve of the big game, which his cash starved team will most likely win.
[/quote]
He had enough to keep us in the top four. He fucked it all up though.
He actually had enough to win the league, imagine if he'd spent 19m on a striker who was good enough for Liverpool ? We'd have walked the league that year.
Fucking hell! I find myself agreeing with Rosco ... He did indeed have a squad good enough to finish top 4, he should have spent the Alonso money on a striker as we were obviously short there.
I agree.
I think the injuries took a massive toll last season, as didnthe psychological white flag of playing Lucas in Alonso's stead early doors because Aquilani was such a crock. As for winning the thing.... Maybe... It was important we didn't lose momentum and we needed to strengthen to do that, the owners could have helped out there IMO.
They didn't Rafa paid the price and Fergie was and is a gloating prick.
I agree.
I think the injuries took a massive toll last season, as didnthe psychological white flag of playing Lucas in Alonso's stead early doors because Aquilani was such a crock. As for winning the thing.... Maybe... It was important we didn't lose momentum and we needed to strengthen to do that, the owners could have helped out there IMO.
They didn't Rafa paid the price and Fergie was and is a gloating prick.
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