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does rafa deserve credit for torres?

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[quote author=rage link=topic=36422.msg962073#msg962073 date=1255473205]
don't know what this checkmate bollocks is. rafa as i and others have said did well buying torres.

whilst this is all a matter of opinion rather than fact i think other top flight managers would have got a similar return from torres.

the sign of a great manager isn't just about what you can do with the best of players but what you can do with emerging, failing and indeed average ones.

if rafa manages to do something with voronin, babel and n'gog or bring through the likes of nemeth then that is when we should be applauding him the most.
[/quote]

What a gracious response - ignoring Torres' own assertion by changing the topic. :🙂
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36422.msg962213#msg962213 date=1255510301]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36422.msg962073#msg962073 date=1255473205]
don't know what this checkmate bollocks is. rafa as i and others have said did well buying torres.

whilst this is all a matter of opinion rather than fact i think other top flight managers would have got a similar return from torres.

the sign of a great manager isn't just about what you can do with the best of players but what you can do with emerging, failing and indeed average ones.

if rafa manages to do something with voronin, babel and n'gog or bring through the likes of nemeth then that is when we should be applauding him the most.
[/quote]

What a gracious response - ignoring Torres' own assertion by changing the topic. :🙂
[/quote]

Aswell as the classic refrain of "but if he can work miracles with £1.5m combined Voronin and N'Gog, THEN he can be applauded".
 
I think Gerrard deserves a special mention with regard to Torres' improvements since he came to the Premiership. I fully agree that Rafa deserves credit and praise for the way he has handled Torres since he signed him, no question. But in Torres' career up until he signed for us, he never played with a player as good as Gerrard. Someone who could give him the kind of passes strikers dream about.

To take it a little further, Rafa should also be given a lot of credit for taking Gerrard from the middle/right and placing him in behind Torres as the second striker. Their partnership is the most lethal in the league and one of the best in Europe. I think many managers may have persisted playing Gerrard in his 'favoured' position as I am sure Gerrard would have been asking to play there, but I think Rafa deserves credit for going against all the media bollocks that is centred around Gerrard's position and having the stones to play him as a second striker. It is a decision that has paid of handsomely for Liverpool.
 
Yes, these things are always collaborations. If all players were as bright, ambitious and open-mineded as Torres and Gerrard, they'd all improve under a good manager, but, of course, they aren't. Only simpletons look at players who fail to fulfil their potential and decide to lay the blame entirely at the feet of the manager. Look at Collymore, look at Le Tissier, look at far lesser talents like Mark Kennedy under Roy Evans and David Bentley under Redknapp. Some players just aren't that coachable.
 
one thing that should be recognised is torres was played as a forward (definately not an out and out striker as ros said). torres for AM is similar to the way torres is currently playing for spain. he wasn't the out and out striker for AM.

it's similar to what whinger did with henry, both players (torres/henry) were moved to the position of out and out striker and the manager reaped the benefit. sure you could say 'torres would have been a success anywhere he went', what if a different manager used him (torres) in the manner spain and AM used him, he would still be a class act but I doubt he would be as prolific as he is for liverpool.
 
as if torres was ever gonna come to us and be an attacking midfielder. i can see it now torres being played behind kuyt or voronin.

and yes rafa does deserve some credit for bringing through insua, he'd get more credit if he hadn't been forced to do it after blowing 8 million on a fat italian because he felt insua wasn't good enough to start with.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=36422.msg962542#msg962542 date=1255542230]
as if torres was ever gonna come to us and be an attacking midfielder. i can see it now torres being played behind kuyt or voronin.

and yes rafa does deserve some credit for bringing through insua, he'd get more credit if he hadn't been forced to do it after blowing 8 million on a fat italian because he felt insua wasn't good enough to start with.




[/quote]

Spot on
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36422.msg962562#msg962562 date=1255544460]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36422.msg962542#msg962542 date=1255542230]
as if torres was ever gonna come to us and be an attacking midfielder. i can see it now torres being played behind kuyt or voronin.

and yes rafa does deserve some credit for bringing through insua, he'd get more credit if he hadn't been forced to do it after blowing 8 million on a fat italian because he felt insua wasn't good enough to start with.




[/quote]
Spot on
[/quote]

Or, alternatively, it could be argued he bought Dossena for £7m, because the perma injured Aurelio is getting on and Insua wasn't quite making the grade at the time.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=36422.msg962542#msg962542 date=1255542230]
as if torres was ever gonna come to us and be an attacking midfielder. i can see it now torres being played behind kuyt or voronin.

and yes rafa does deserve some credit for bringing through insua, he'd get more credit if he hadn't been forced to do it after blowing 8 million on a fat italian because he felt insua wasn't good enough to start with.




[/quote]

Christ, he makes Rashid seem sophisticated.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=36422.msg962542#msg962542 date=1255542230]
as if torres was ever gonna come to us and be an attacking midfielder. i can see it now torres being played behind kuyt or voronin.

[/quote]

Rafael Benítez has made me a better player, says Fernando Torres

guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 1 July 2009


The Liverpool striker Fernando Torres has credited his manager, Rafael Benítez, for helping him become a better player during his two seasons in England. The Spanish striker arrived at Anfield in the summer of 2007 from Atlético Madrid with a reputation for being a prodigious talent without necessarily being prolific.

The Spain international scored 91 goals in 244 matches for his hometown club before his £20million-plus transfer to Merseyside and Benítez was instantly rewarded for his club-record investment as Torres scored 33 times in his first campaign in English football – adding another 17 in an injury-dogged last season.

His half-century of goals came up in only 84 matches and the 25-year-old believes the influence of Benítez had a major impact on him adapting so quickly to the Barclays Premier League.

"Rafa concentrates on the professional side of things," said Torres, who signed an improved contract in May. "He tries to improve every minor detail and movement you carry out during the course of a game and he also explains the reasons behind his decisions.

"He's obsessed that you understand what you are doing and why. He's not happy that you do things just because he tells you that something has to be done. He says: 'Do it like this. Do you understand why you are being told to do so? No? We'll go through it again then'.

"I remember when I signed for the club people were questioning me as a goalscorer. I received criticism because I wasn't getting goals. The first thing he told me was that I was signed to score goals. Benítez is adamant that I live in the [penalty] area because that's where you get goals. That was the first thing he told me, the wing is for the wingers, and that the striker should be focused on the two rival centre-backs."
Click to expand...
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36422.msg962669#msg962669 date=1255554430]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36422.msg962542#msg962542 date=1255542230]
as if torres was ever gonna come to us and be an attacking midfielder. i can see it now torres being played behind kuyt or voronin.

and yes rafa does deserve some credit for bringing through insua, he'd get more credit if he hadn't been forced to do it after blowing 8 million on a fat italian because he felt insua wasn't good enough to start with.




[/quote]

Christ, he makes Rashid seem sophisticated.
[/quote]

You mean, he's not Rashid?
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=36422.msg962575#msg962575 date=1255547060]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36422.msg962562#msg962562 date=1255544460]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36422.msg962542#msg962542 date=1255542230]
as if torres was ever gonna come to us and be an attacking midfielder. i can see it now torres being played behind kuyt or voronin.

and yes rafa does deserve some credit for bringing through insua, he'd get more credit if he hadn't been forced to do it after blowing 8 million on a fat italian because he felt insua wasn't good enough to start with.




[/quote]
Spot on
[/quote]

Or, alternatively, it could be argued he bought Dossena for £7m, because the perma injured Aurelio is getting on and Insua wasn't quite making the grade at the time.


[/quote]

Buying Dossena has been one of his biggest fuck ups, there's no denying that.

Not having faith in talented youth players is one thing and even understandable. Buying that hapless, fat third choice fucker as a superior alternative is simple bad, and costly, decision making.

He deserves a lot of credit for Torres, though - although as Rage said, unlike Spidey I don't think Torres was anything other than a striker prior to joining us.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36422.msg962679#msg962679 date=1255556150]




He deserves a lot of credit for Torres, though - although as Rage said, unlike Spidey I don't think Torres was anything other than a striker prior to joining us.
[/quote]

Yes, Squiggs. Is that relevant to the question at the top of this thread? Don't indulge the forum idiot.
 
A couple bad fullbacks aside, Rafa's record with defenders had been very good up until that summer. To get Agger and Skrtel for little over 10M is fantastic when you consider what others have paid for CBs and Aurelio and Arbeloa came for peanuts.

At the time, I honestly think Insua was about as ready as he is this season - the next level of improvement can only come from experience in the first team. Of course nobody would've complained had Dossena turned out to be brilliant, but as fate would have it, he was a massive and rather unnecessary fuck up considering our limited resources.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36422.msg962689#msg962689 date=1255556795]
A couple bad fullbacks aside, Rafa's record with defenders had been very good up until that summer. To get Agger and Skrtel for little over 10M is fantastic when you consider what others have paid for CBs and Aurelio and Arbeloa came for peanuts.

At the time, I honestly think Insua was about as ready as he is this season - the next level of improvement can only come from experience in the first team. Of course nobody would've complained had Dossena turned out to be brilliant, but as fate would have it, he was a massive and rather unnecessary fuck up considering our limited resources.


[/quote]1

Much emphasis on the 'massive'.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=36422.msg962542#msg962542 date=1255542230]
as if torres was ever gonna come to us and be an attacking midfielder. i can see it now torres being played behind kuyt or voronin.

and yes rafa does deserve some credit for bringing through insua, he'd get more credit if he hadn't been forced to do it after blowing 8 million on a fat italian because he felt insua wasn't good enough to start with.




[/quote]
FUCK YOU!
 
[quote author=dossena link=topic=36422.msg962906#msg962906 date=1255595968]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36422.msg962542#msg962542 date=1255542230]
as if torres was ever gonna come to us and be an attacking midfielder. i can see it now torres being played behind kuyt or voronin.

and yes rafa does deserve some credit for bringing through insua, he'd get more credit if he hadn't been forced to do it after blowing 8 million on a fat italian because he felt insua wasn't good enough to start with.




[/quote]
FUCK YOU!
[/quote]

Hahaha. It' on. 8)
 
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