Do We Need To Rebuild?

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=39500.msg1076952#msg1076952 date=1269643610]
Skrtel is a fine defender.
[/quote]
I'm not so sure about him. He's positionally suspect and lacks pace.
Intercepting and competing in the air are his main strengths.
I hope he can iron out the creases soon.

 

[keniget]

I don't have any problems with Skrtel per se and would actually say he's easily our most mobile defender, however it seems fairly clear to me that Rafa rates Agger higher (for what that is worth) and if we were to weigh the two up in terms of potential, I'd say Agger takes it, so for those reasons it's probably easier to push Skrtel aside. Whether Agger can stay fit and deliver on that potential is another matter, which should obviously be factored into any decision. The fact that Agger has just gotten a big contract probably means that decision has already been taken though.

I'd still like a new CB. At this point, I'm not fussed who makes way. I just want a dependable defence that doesn't rely on being babysat by a compact midfield in order to not fall apart.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I'm still of the opinion that Skittles and Agger will be our long term CB pairing once Carra hangs his boots up. That's assuming glass back gets over his injury problems.

 

[peterhague]

carra's probably got 2 years left in him, i'm hoping by then martin kelly will be ready to step up. he looks a good prospect.

if we're talking realistically about summer signings, we're clearly going to have to prioritise, so i'd probably go for a pacy and tricky left winger as the main signing, and a decent left back with whatever's left. i'd then just hope for the best that this jovanovic guy can provide a bit of cover up front, and that aquilani will come good.

i suppose if you're stretching it a bit, we could sell lucas/skrtel and maxi and spend the money on this kjaer fella or a decent, all round, midfielder.

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=39500.msg1076887#msg1076887 date=1269623760]
I think we need to buy 5 or 6 very good players.

So it will cost more than building an average premiership first team.

LB, CH, midfield, 2 talented wide players and a striker
[/quote]

I would be happy with LB, 1 talented wide player and 1 very good striker.

Sell Lucas and get a couple of cheap premiership squadies like Martin Petrov from City and Scotty Parker for CM cover.

Why do we need more center halfs? There are four of them (none of them is a liability) and two young upstarts. I think some of you are over reacting...clearly

 

[darkstarexodus]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=39500.msg1076974#msg1076974 date=1269657397]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=39500.msg1076887#msg1076887 date=1269623760]
I think we need to buy 5 or 6 very good players.

So it will cost more than building an average premiership first team.

LB, CH, midfield, 2 talented wide players and a striker
[/quote]

I would be happy with LB, 1 talented wide player and 1 very good striker.

Sell Lucas and get a couple of cheap premiership squadies like Martin Petrov from City and Scotty Parker for CM cover.

Why do we need more center halfs? There are four of them (none of them is a liability) and two young upstarts. I think some of you are over reacting...clearly
[/quote]

Petrov plays mainly on the left, does he not? Which is why I would like him. Rate him actually.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Whitey85 link=topic=39500.msg1076735#msg1076735 date=1269596453]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39500.msg1076700#msg1076700 date=1269572311]

heart says Lahm but that's obviously out of the question.

[/quote]

I see Lahm's name crop up all over the place in these champ manager style threads. Can someone explain to me what is so great about him? Ive not been impressed apart from one wonder goal for Germany.
[/quote]

I think he's quite good; tho I'm not going to go Glock on him.

To be frank I'm not sure if we could get better.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=39500.msg1076944#msg1076944 date=1269639634]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39500.msg1076906#msg1076906 date=1269629562]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=39500.msg1076746#msg1076746 date=1269598283]
I don't think we need to be making drastic changes.

I'd be more than happy if we could just add another 4 players (5 if we 've already got Jovanovic on a free), and maybe ship out 2-3 squadies.


LB: Taïwo £7m (quite a few on here seem to rate him highly)
Turan £13m
Strikers Jovanovic/??
CM ??

We don't have to spend huge money, maybe about £25m-£30m after sales.




[/quote]

Do you know how few teams are able to spend £25m - £30m after sales ?

That is big money.
[/quote]


It's about double what our transfer kitty used to be, which as it happens is a fitting amount considering that G&H chose to spend £0 last time around.

Don't forget that Hicks has said that we'll be having a "big" summer!
[/quote]

I think you and many others are misinterpreting what Hicks said.

 

[peterhague]

i can't remember exactly what hicks said, but it seemed at the time to be fairly unambiguously signalling 'big' in terms of summer transfer expenditure. doesn't mean i've got the slightest confidence in that happening, though.

just for the record, i based my post on us having around £20m to spend, including whatever we get for riera AND qualifying for the CL. i'd have thought without those 2 happening we'll have less than £10m to play with.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=i_rushie link=topic=39500.msg1076951#msg1076951 date=1269643340]
I keep hearing calls for Skrtel to be sold in anticipation of some dream partnership between Agger and Kjaer.

Has that poster not noticed that this "dream partnership" is likely to be available for selection perhaps for half our fixtures each season?

For what it's worth, since the turn of the year, we've conceded 2 goals in the 6 league games Skrtel has played in. 5 in the 6 Agger has.

Yes, Skrtel started off the season poorly, but he's gotten better since the start of the year and looked like the player of the past 2 seasons. Agger seems to get off easily when he has poor games simply because he's "stylish" and a "footballer" whatever that means.

There's as much reason to sell Agger as there is to sell Skrtel.
[/quote]

Excellent post.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=i_rushie link=topic=39500.msg1076951#msg1076951 date=1269643340]
I keep hearing calls for Skrtel to be sold in anticipation of some dream partnership between Agger and Kjaer.

Has that poster not noticed that this "dream partnership" is likely to be available for selection perhaps for half our fixtures each season?

For what it's worth, since the turn of the year, we've conceded 2 goals in the 6 league games Skrtel has played in. 5 in the 6 Agger has.

Yes, Skrtel started off the season poorly, but he's gotten better since the start of the year and looked like the player of the past 2 seasons. Agger seems to get off easily when he has poor games simply because he's "stylish" and a "footballer" whatever that means.

There's as much reason to sell Agger as there is to sell Skrtel.
[/quote]
Good post.

However I don't agree for various reasons.

Skrtel did improve in his last games before his new injury but the main issue with him (playing alongside Agger at least) is his lack of ability in the air. We are in deseprate need for somone who'll win their fair share of headers and though Skrtels stature should make one think he was the main he isn't. At least not yet.

He's a very fine defender but for me he's not quite Aggers standard hence he's got to be the one making way as we're not selling Carra nor shipping of Kyrgiakos for a fee of any kind. If we want to improve our backline we've got to sell one good defender.

Agger is slightly better at what he does than Skrtel is at what he does. Which honestly isn't that much different than Agger.

And truth to be told he hasn't got the best history with injuries himself. He's played 19 league games this Season whereas Agger's played 17 - in a Season where he was injured for the first two or three months.

 

[Judge Jules]

With respect, Kristian, you've missed the overall point of i_rushie's post. He's saying, rightly IMO, that neither should leave, because Agger's injury record - a lot worse and of longer standing than Skrtel's - means we can't rely on him (not yet at any rate) to be available for enough of the season. Skrtel's had a harder time of it with injury this time around, but even then his attendance record is (as you yourself concede) the better of the two.

The comparison between Agger and Skrtel is a subject we've often debated and will not agree on, so I won't go into it in detail again. The one point I will make is that, if you really think Agger's the better player in the air, one of us needs new glasses. Mine were tested last month and found to be A-OK. 😉

 

[Fabio]

They're both 50p 'eads

 

[cochyn]

Your all talking spend spend spend, but what about our reserve players! Pacheco, dalle vale, kelly, nemeth all players that deserved there chance in the first team to replace some of the dross that seems to make the team/bench week in week out!
Its about time that LFC started promoting from within and looking to the youth/reserve players! There is some dross in the reserves too and they can be gotten rid of with the first team dross to fund the positions where our reserves seem lacking!!

We have no money to spend so lets be creative and give the players in the reserves a chance!

 

[zlatan18]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=39500.msg1076725#msg1076725 date=1269594431]
Zlatan, we don't have a pot to piss in.

Signing Kjaer, Turan and an expensive full back won't happen.
It's not even woth mentioning the names of Cissokho and Lahm, cause it wont happen.

We might sign Turan if we sell Riera. Kjaer Cissokho and Lahm are 20 mill £ players, Kjaer is 12 mill £.


Not a chance in hell..
[/quote]

Kjaer - 12mil
Turan - 20mil
Felipe - 10mil

42mil... player sales, 20mil from owners im sure we could do this 🙂

jovanovic/chamakh free

selling the likes of degen, lucas, riera nd a few more of the deadwood.. im sure we could get near 20mil. Just means the owners are gonna have to not be cunts

 

[zlatan18]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=39500.msg1076763#msg1076763 date=1269602395]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=39500.msg1076716#msg1076716 date=1269588223]
Like i said a few weeks ago, all we need is a new manager and a few changes!

bring in:

Arda Turan
Kjaer
Jovanovic
Another ST (chamakh)
and a new LB (lahm, abidal, Cissokho, felipe from deportivo)


with player sales and the money from selling the players in january and 20mil from the owners we should be able to do this with ease!!


----------------------Reina----------------------
Magic--------Kjaer--------Agger-------Felipe
-------------------Mascherano-----------------
Turan-------------Aquilani--------------Babel
---------------Gerrard---------------------------
----------------------Torres----------------------

Bench: Caveleri, Carragher, Skrtel, Aurelio, Chamakh, Benayoun, Kuyt etc

thats a title challenging team
[/quote]

Sooo.... all we need is Turan Kjaer chamakh jovanovic and one of Lahm, or abidal etc etc ...

piece of cake.

Im sure GnT are all over that already with pen hovering over the checkbook
[/quote]


Well obviously they are stupid, thats why everyone doesnt like them 😉

 

[SaintGeorge67]

As I believe we established in Dec/Jan, Chamakh is far from "free"

 

[i_rushie]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=39500.msg1077045#msg1077045 date=1269690749]
[quote author=i_rushie link=topic=39500.msg1076951#msg1076951 date=1269643340]
I keep hearing calls for Skrtel to be sold in anticipation of some dream partnership between Agger and Kjaer.

Has that poster not noticed that this "dream partnership" is likely to be available for selection perhaps for half our fixtures each season?

For what it's worth, since the turn of the year, we've conceded 2 goals in the 6 league games Skrtel has played in. 5 in the 6 Agger has.

Yes, Skrtel started off the season poorly, but he's gotten better since the start of the year and looked like the player of the past 2 seasons. Agger seems to get off easily when he has poor games simply because he's "stylish" and a "footballer" whatever that means.

There's as much reason to sell Agger as there is to sell Skrtel.
[/quote]
Good post.

However I don't agree for various reasons.

Skrtel did improve in his last games before his new injury but the main issue with him (playing alongside Agger at least) is his lack of ability in the air. We are in deseprate need for somone who'll win their fair share of headers and though Skrtels stature should make one think he was the main he isn't. At least not yet.

He's a very fine defender but for me he's not quite Aggers standard hence he's got to be the one making way as we're not selling Carra nor shipping of Kyrgiakos for a fee of any kind. If we want to improve our backline we've got to sell one good defender.

Agger is slightly better at what he does than Skrtel is at what he does. Which honestly isn't that much different than Agger.

And truth to be told he hasn't got the best history with injuries himself. He's played 19 league games this Season whereas Agger's played 17 - in a Season where he was injured for the first two or three months.


[/quote]

From Wiki:

Martin Skrtel 1.91m
Daniel Agger 1.91 m

You're right though. He should be the main man winning headers. I mean you don't really expect someone sitting on the treatment table to win any.

Ok look, this isn't a Martin v Daniel debate. After all, I do think Agger is a very good player. But so is Skrtel. Any one who thinks Skrtel is the clearly inferior defender AND is the obvious choice for selling, in my opinion, has got blinkers on. Sorry.

One of the reasons we haven't missed Agger more for the last 2 seasons has been some rock solid performances by Skrtel, and that's pretty indicative of Skrtel's true ability.

You also forget that this year, Skrtel has been the most unlucky with injuries since he's been here, and still he's played more games than Agger. And some of them with a broken jaw too.

 

[kingjulian]

Agger is pretty solid with heading the ball. At least as far as defensive clearance/interception of Arial balls is concerned. However he needs to improve his heading on the other side of the pitch. He gets his head on the ball more often than not, but he can't impart any kind of direction on the ball. If he was a better header of the ball, he should be easily crossing the 5 goal mark in a season. Hyypia used to consistently cross that. Agger's left peg means he also gets to take some free kicks. He should be easily matching what Hyypia achieved in terms of goals.

I would say he is woefully under-achieving at this moment. I do love him though. As some other poster mentioned, he seems to have all the time in the world. That level of composure is seen only in very very few football players.

Agger is more consistent, and the better footballer. Defensively Agger reads the game and tries to stop the opposition from building an attack, where as Skirtl's uses his pace and strength to stop the opposition -both methods have their merits. Their Injury record is not that much different from each other's. All things considered, i think this is quite an easy choice. Agger over Skirtl for me.

But i really don't think we need a change in this part of the pitch. All four center halves can do their job competently and each have at least one out standing quality. We just need better full backs, and we will see a marked improvement in our defending. We could do with some one like Steve Finnan on the left - A steady Eddy in attack with solid crosses from the deep, but defensively very very sound. I would love to see how Agger goes in this role. People see the number of losses and goals we have conceded this season and quickly conclude we need better Center Halves....that is not really the case is it?

 

[darkstarexodus]

I don't think it's fair to say Agger is woefully underperforming but it is a measure of how much potential he has to say that he has a lot of growth yet.

Your points about him increasing his goal tally and especially about directing his offensive headers are spot on.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

I just think Agger needs a relatively injury free period and extended run in the team, he certainly has a bit more in his locker that Skrtel.

Back to the original thread for a second.
As has been said we have a core of players good enough for any team in the world. We knew not long after the start of the season we had a decent team, but that the squad depth just was not there anymore, all the last few months have done is highlight those shortcomings. At the risk of repeating myself we need four top class players without off-loading anyone so as to build up the squad again. Apart from Babel that is , who we might get decent money for and who continually flatters to deceive, if anyone was made for that phrase it was Ryan (Babel that is).

regards

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=39500.msg1077169#msg1077169 date=1269711201]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=39500.msg1076725#msg1076725 date=1269594431]
Zlatan, we don't have a pot to piss in.

Signing Kjaer, Turan and an expensive full back won't happen.
It's not even woth mentioning the names of Cissokho and Lahm, cause it wont happen.

We might sign Turan if we sell Riera. Kjaer Cissokho and Lahm are 20 mill £ players, Kjaer is 12 mill £.


Not a chance in hell..
[/quote]

Kjaer - 12mil
Turan - 20mil
Felipe - 10mil

42mil... player sales, 20mil from owners im sure we could do this 🙂

jovanovic/chamakh free

selling the likes of degen, lucas, riera nd a few more of the deadwood.. im sure we could get near 20mil. Just means the owners are gonna have to not be cunts
[/quote]

Jovanovic contract ... 10M already gone according to current club interpetation of transfer kitty
Mash renewing his.... christ knows... 100k a week?

Unlikely to make champs league... financial disaster

Unless we sell big this summer we will not be signing fucking anyone and certainly not snoogy fucking doogy....and horrific though the thought is City will be coming back with a huge Torres bid and our owners are in a hole..... talk of signing good players from other clubs is fanciful at least and failing to see the bleeding obvious despite it being spelt out, we are fucked financially and the yanks cannot and will not be spending big.

 

[keniget]

Is that Depor's Felipe?

Looks a very good player. That is, until he snapped his leg in half. When is he due back?