Do We Need To Rebuild?

[KopKing]

Shit season, yadda yadda yadda. Normally when a team implodes like we seem to be doing, a normal reaction would be a rebuilding job, usually because players are aging.

Thing is, our best players bar Gerrard, have not yet reached their peak. which surely bodes well for next season and future seasons as reputations have suffered from top to bottom, its been that traumatic and personally I can't wait for this interminable suffering to end.

We really don't need that much in my opinion. We underestimated Xabi's influence he was made for us. Our game was fluid when he played, and way less so when he didn't. I literally prayed that he wouldn't leave I knew he was that influential. Bloody hell, it was obvious. But he's gone, and we didn't move on as a team. Losing the first couple knocked us back, then we lost our centre backs, pulled it back again and lost Nando and Gerrard, which again set us back and we never regained our swagger from last season.

So what do we do next season? That Serbian freebie isn't going to win us the league. I keep saying this, but people are focusing on Rafa, but those Americans are running us into the fucking ground. Most top clubs in major leagues, being in our position at the January transfer window, would have broken the fucking bank to get someone in. Not us. No. We're paying debts for the privilege of those twats owning us. Who's paying? Us. The fans. (Well not me cos I only went to the preseason friendly against Athletico but you know what I mean 🙂)

People say the boardroom shouldn't affect what goes on, on the field of play but the instability at the top does trickle down and it has affected us.

So what do we do to compete next year? Can we compete next year without spending huge amounts? We need a striker who can play with and instead of Nando, we need a world class ball carrying wide midfielder and a senior left back. If we had money, I'd go for a player to compete with Gerrard. We can't afford to have those two as our main guys only. They are injury prone. Just our luck they couldn't be like Rooney and never break down with muscle tears. Acquilani may help, it would be fantastic if he had the influence of Xabi, but he too is injury prone. He's even prone to fucking viruses.

I prattle on with no point other than to say with a few additions, we can win the league next year in my opinion and certainly at least challenge. We don't need rebuilding or major surgery. My targets would be Arda Turan, David Villa and a solid defensive type left back. Oh, and promote Pacheco, the kid is special.

What do you guys think we should do and what do you do. What do you think Rafa will do should he be here, I hope and think he will. Please lets refrain from it turning into a Rafa out thread. For the purposes of debate lets assume he's still here.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=39500.msg1076694#msg1076694 date=1269567179]

Who's paying? Us. The fans. (Well not me cos I only went to the preseason friendly against Athletico but you know what I mean 🙂)

Oh I know what you mean, I am paying for two season tickets, and pre-purchased cup tickets

I prattle on with no point other than to say with a few additions, we can win the league next year in my opinion and certainly at least challenge. We don't need rebuilding or major surgery. My targets would be Arda Turan, David Villa and a solid defensive type left back. Oh, and promote Pacheco, the kid is special.

You certainly do and it is full of contradictions, you say we don't need major surgery and then list about £60m that needs spending on three players.
You almost have it right, we need a top class striker, someone wide left, someone wide right and a left back, we actually need to spend around £80m+

What do you guys think we should do and what do you do. What do you think Rafa will do should he be here, I hope and think he will. Please lets refrain from it turning into a Rafa out thread. For the purposes of debate lets assume he's still here.

Why not turn it into a Rafa out thread? You keep banging on about everything being the owners fault, and point for some inexplicable reason to the January transfer window as their failure, that particular issue goes back much further than that , January 2008 to be precise when Keane went and was not replaced, Rafa has had time enough to sort that one.


[/quote]

It needs major surgery , as I said at least £80m spending, with few leaving so we can have Yossi, Dirk, Lucas and Maxi, and Jovanovic as squad players to build back our strength in depth, oh yes, and Rafa out of the way

regards

 

[Ryan]

No.

Most of our players are young, or reaching the prime.

Of course Carra and Gerrard are getting on, but there's excellent competiton for places at centre back, and inevitably Gerrard would dwindle at some stage.

We need more world class players in attacking positions say's the Ryan O'Hare broken record.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=39500.msg1076694#msg1076694 date=1269567179]
Shit season, yadda yadda yadda. Normally when a team implodes like we seem to be doing, a normal reaction would be a rebuilding job, usually because players are aging.

Thing is, our best players bar Gerrard, have not yet reached their peak. which surely bodes well for next season and future seasons as reputations have suffered from top to bottom, its been that traumatic and personally I can't wait for this interminable suffering to end.

We really don't need that much in my opinion. We underestimated Xabi's influence he was made for us. Our game was fluid when he played, and way less so when he didn't. I literally prayed that he wouldn't leave I knew he was that influential. Bloody hell, it was obvious. But he's gone, and we didn't move on as a team. Losing the first couple knocked us back, then we lost our centre backs, pulled it back again and lost Nando and Gerrard, which again set us back and we never regained our swagger from last season.

So what do we do next season? That Serbian freebie isn't going to win us the league. I keep saying this, but people are focusing on Rafa, but those Americans are running us into the fucking ground. Most top clubs in major leagues, being in our position at the January transfer window, would have broken the fucking bank to get someone in. Not us. No. We're paying debts for the privilege of those twats owning us. Who's paying? Us. The fans. (Well not me cos I only went to the preseason friendly against Athletico but you know what I mean 🙂)

People say the boardroom shouldn't affect what goes on, on the field of play but the instability at the top does trickle down and it has affected us.

So what do we do to compete next year? Can we compete next year without spending huge amounts? We need a striker who can play with and instead of Nando, we need a world class ball carrying wide midfielder and a senior left back. If we had money, I'd go for a player to compete with Gerrard. We can't afford to have those two as our main guys only. They are injury prone. Just our luck they couldn't be like Rooney and never break down with muscle tears. Acquilani may help, it would be fantastic if he had the influence of Xabi, but he too is injury prone. He's even prone to fucking viruses.

I prattle on with no point other than to say with a few additions, we can win the league next year in my opinion and certainly at least challenge. We don't need rebuilding or major surgery. My targets would be Arda Turan, David Villa and a solid defensive type left back. Oh, and promote Pacheco, the kid is special.

What do you guys think we should do and what do you do. What do you think Rafa will do should he be here, I hope and think he will. Please lets refrain from it turning into a Rafa out thread. For the purposes of debate lets assume he's still here.

[/quote]

Good post, mate.

Unfortunately, my fear is that whilst he remains, all that needs to be done won't be done and we'll be seeing nother litany of excuses this time next year. 🙁

Anyway, if he's here I'd lke to see more of this (with apologies to Robinhood)

----------------Torres
Babel----------------------Benayoun
------Aquilani---------Gerrard
------------Mascherano
Insua Agger Carragher Johnson
----------------Reina

Riera's off for either 6 million or 2 bags of Lays; so Babel in there might work (it should work better than Yossi who's shit there)

Your Arda Turan shout is good, but Villa is out of our price range.

First priority is to get a quality LB; heart says Lahm but that's obviously out of the question.

ANyway, smarter people than me will have better ideas.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Good post. I don't think it's quite time to destruct the team yet as we really do have a lot of good players throughout the team. Unfortunately we have a few glaring holes and we are severely lacking in morale and inspiration.


[quote author=KopKing link=topic=39500.msg1076694#msg1076694 date=1269567179]So what do we do next season? That Serbian freebie isn't going to win us the league. I keep saying this, but people are focusing on Rafa, but those Americans are running us into the fucking ground. Most top clubs in major leagues, being in our position at the January transfer window, would have broken the fucking bank to get someone in. Not us. No. We're paying debts for the privilege of those twats owning us. Who's paying? Us. The fans. (Well not me cos I only went to the preseason friendly against Athletico but you know what I mean 🙂)
[/quote]

I take a little bit of issue with this. By January it was clear that any spending spree wasn't going to push us back into the title race. However, had we gone on our typical second half surge and had (and this is an opinion) Rafa not lost the dressing room we should not have required large spending to reach fourth, which should have been a realistic and very achievable fallback goal. Then in the summer, when the "real" transfer window opens we could better assess our needs and prepare for next season. The way we have played in the second half, when our backs should have been against the walls, makes me think January spending would not have made a significant difference. Right now we're not "one player away", we need to get the considerable talent we have humming along again.

 

[Terrier]

The core of our team is more than capable to fight for honours. It's pretty clear from the body language of some of the players that they aren't enjoying playing for this manager.

The owners are probably in agreeance and are scared shitless to give Rafa anymore of the precious money that we (don't ) have.

As countless others have said we need a man who can inspire them to play to their maximum capabilities. Bring on Maureen and watch the transformation.

If we are lucky enough to get him in, he will be the best signing we will have made in the last 20 years.

 

[zlatan18]

Like i said a few weeks ago, all we need is a new manager and a few changes!

bring in:

Arda Turan
Kjaer
Jovanovic
Another ST (chamakh)
and a new LB (lahm, abidal, Cissokho, felipe from deportivo)


with player sales and the money from selling the players in january and 20mil from the owners we should be able to do this with ease!!


----------------------Reina----------------------
Magic--------Kjaer--------Agger-------Felipe
-------------------Mascherano-----------------
Turan-------------Aquilani--------------Babel
---------------Gerrard---------------------------
----------------------Torres----------------------

Bench: Caveleri, Carragher, Skrtel, Aurelio, Chamakh, Benayoun, Kuyt etc

thats a title challenging team

 

[Rafiagra]

Chamakh is reportedly off to Arsenal.

We desperately need a new left back and an attacking midfielder.

The other priority is a someone to play alongside Mascherano. Now, if Aquilani is that man, fair enough but if he cant cut the mustard we need to find a new player.

 

[Hansern]

Zlatan, we don't have a pot to piss in.

Signing Kjaer, Turan and an expensive full back won't happen.
It's not even woth mentioning the names of Cissokho and Lahm, cause it wont happen.

We might sign Turan if we sell Riera. Kjaer Cissokho and Lahm are 20 mill £ players, Kjaer is 12 mill £.


Not a chance in hell..

 

[jexykrodic]

We don't need to rebuild, we do need better quality squad players including, very obviously; a quality backup for Torres.

Beyond that we need a settled ownership agreement and some news that a new stadium is a probability rather than a possibility.

 

[the_khl]

Very good post KopKing.

I'm still rattled about the fact that Rafa had a massive £3M transferbudget to choose from last Summer when the money from the Alonso-transfer was spent. I can't see anyone else take the blame apart from the owners unless of course Rafa specifically told them that he only needed a RB, a new CM and a back-up defender (to take over from Sami). I doubt it.

Anyways I'm feeling rather confident come the next window for several reasons. The most important beeing that there's some top-class players outthere who's got an outspoken desire to join Liverpool FC.

Arda Turan and Kjaer to mention the most prominent names. I'm not sure why Hansern reckons it won't happen with any of them as I'm quite sure it will. Especially as Kjaer's got a £9M clause. (Well of course we'd then have to sell a player in the £6M region but Riera will probably fetch about that).

I'd be extremely tempted to offload the likes of Benayoun, Babel and Skrtel too if we were to make more than one change. Turan could probably be more or less financed with Babel - especially if there's any truth in the rumours that Gala wants him.

Can we then get in the region og £6M to £8M for Bena and Skrtel there should be room for one more talented attacking-minded player.

Hazard or Eriksen would be my first choices and I reckon those will be available in the £15M bracket.

We are then 'only' short of a new LB.

Squad

Reina
Cavalieri

Johnson
Kelly
Carra
Agger
Kjaer
Kyrgiakos
Insua
NEW LB

Arda Turan
Kuyt
Lucas
Masher
Aquilani
Gerrard
Maxi
Pacheco
Eden Hazard

Torres
Jovanovic
Ngog
Dalle Valle
Saric

 

[Whitey85]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39500.msg1076700#msg1076700 date=1269572311]

heart says Lahm but that's obviously out of the question.

[/quote]

I see Lahm's name crop up all over the place in these champ manager style threads. Can someone explain to me what is so great about him? Ive not been impressed apart from one wonder goal for Germany.

 

[Jack D Rips]

You can watch him on Tuesday night

 

[Whitey85]

Valencia will rape the little midget

 

[Jürgen4PM]

I don't think we need to be making drastic changes.

I'd be more than happy if we could just add another 4 players (5 if we 've already got Jovanovic on a free), and maybe ship out 2-3 squadies.


LB: Taïwo £7m (quite a few on here seem to rate him highly)
Turan £13m
Strikers Jovanovic/??
CM ??

We don't have to spend huge money, maybe about £25m-£30m after sales.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=39500.msg1076732#msg1076732 date=1269595477]


I'm still rattled about the fact that Rafa had a massive £3M transferbudget to choose from last Summer when the money from the Alonso-transfer was spent. I can't see anyone else take the blame apart from the owners unless of course Rafa specifically told them that he only needed a RB, a new CM and a back-up defender (to take over from Sami). I doubt it.
[/quote]

I'm still rattled by the fact that Rafa has known for two transfer windows that a striker was a necessity and did nothing about it, where everyone else that has a hole in their arse knew it would come back to haunt us, which it did.

I don't see why you would look to get shut of Benayoun and keep worse players.

Forget the list of names, it does not happen like that as well you know.

We need the average players forced out of the team and onto the bench ie, Dirk, Lucas, Maxi and OK , yes, Yossi , and a decent striker.

Rafa4pm is right

regards

 

[spider-Neil]

the team doesn't need to rebuild, we need;

* underpeforming players to be dropped
* in form players to be given a run
* one out and out holding midfielder/one attacking midfielder
* more pace in midfield
* a new left back
* another striker

do that and the results will definately improve

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39500.msg1076747#msg1076747 date=1269598675]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=39500.msg1076732#msg1076732 date=1269595477]


I'm still rattled about the fact that Rafa had a massive £3M transferbudget to choose from last Summer when the money from the Alonso-transfer was spent. I can't see anyone else take the blame apart from the owners unless of course Rafa specifically told them that he only needed a RB, a new CM and a back-up defender (to take over from Sami). I doubt it.
[/quote]

I'm still rattled by the fact that Rafa has known for two transfer windows that a striker was a necessity and did nothing about it, where everyone else that has a hole in their arse knew it would come back to haunt us, which it did.

I don't see why you would look to get shut of Benayoun and keep worse players.

Forget the list of names, it does not happen like that as well you know.

We need the average players forced out of the team and onto the bench ie, Dirk, Lucas, Maxi and OK , yes, Yossi , and a decent striker.

Rafa4pm is right

regards
[/quote]
I agree with regards to the striker-issue. Our lack of options in that department has been more obvious than I would've thought/hoped at the beginning of the Season and I know you were one of the first on here to pin-point this exact weakness. Torres' injury-ridden Season hasn't helped one bit of course.

I do however believe we were in need of a good RB as well. And a CM was obviously in the cards too. And a new CB after sami left. Imagine that we hadn't bought Johnson - whom I still reckon is the kind of player we need to go forward - with Kellys and Degens injuries and lack of talent. The talent-bit refers only to the latter.

Kyrgiakos has had a rather important role as well with Agger and Skrtels injuries.

All I'm saying is that if the owners restricted Rafa with £3M + recouped transfers they limited his options massively.

With regards to Benayoun I'm not convinced he'll ever step up to be anything but a squadie. I like him as a player most of the time and he seems like a good bloke too but if we could cash in and perhaps get our hands on one of the most promissing rising stars outthere I would not hesitate one bit.

I'm positive that Eriksen would make us far more potent in attack from day one despite him just turning 18-years old. Such is his talent. Hazard, from what little I've seen, looks the real deal too. They are both fast on their feet and in mind and they are capable of creating the unexpected.

I can't see us buy these players without selling hence someone has to go. At this point I'd be more tempted to sell Benayun and Kuyt rather than Babel it has to be said, but that'll probably never happen.

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=39500.msg1076716#msg1076716 date=1269588223]
Like i said a few weeks ago, all we need is a new manager and a few changes!

bring in:

Arda Turan
Kjaer
Jovanovic
Another ST (chamakh)
and a new LB (lahm, abidal, Cissokho, felipe from deportivo)


with player sales and the money from selling the players in january and 20mil from the owners we should be able to do this with ease!!


----------------------Reina----------------------
Magic--------Kjaer--------Agger-------Felipe
-------------------Mascherano-----------------
Turan-------------Aquilani--------------Babel
---------------Gerrard---------------------------
----------------------Torres----------------------

Bench: Caveleri, Carragher, Skrtel, Aurelio, Chamakh, Benayoun, Kuyt etc

thats a title challenging team
[/quote]

Sooo.... all we need is Turan Kjaer chamakh jovanovic and one of Lahm, or abidal etc etc ...

piece of cake.

Im sure GnT are all over that already with pen hovering over the checkbook

 

[manwithnoname]

We desperately need a new LB, CM, striker and attacking midfielder (who can play left or right)

Is that rebuilding?

 

[Le Chacal]

We need 2 strikers. Villa + Pacheco as backup after the Crouch and Keane debacle. He shouldnt have sold Crouch in the first place
One LB after the Dossena and Insua debacle. He shouldnt have sold Riise in the first place. Lahm is a good shout

Considering I'd like a 4-4-2 formation, we need a LW, Young would be good.
On the right Maxi and Benayoun can fight for the position, they can also play as a 2nd striker.

We just needed minor changes but Rafa desintegrated our spine and balance. Not the Yanks.
He would have bought Johnson regardless of Alonso's transfer hence talking about a £3m budget is ludicrous.
We will need at least £50M to fix this mess.
I think only a new manager and new owners will be up for that big task.

 

[HC]

Some quality out wide would transform this side. A player who can match Torres and Gerrard in terms of ability and sharing creative workload but hopefully stay fit for longer than them two :🙂 and we're cooking on gas.

 

[franklyfrank]

We need 3 players to go straight into the first team, possibly 4.

Then we need another 4 players for the squad who are capable of coming into the first team and doing the business.

This is all easier said than done obviously.

When you look at Spurs bench with the likes of Bentley, Pavlyuchenko and Gudjohnson we're miles behind.
In terms of stength in depth.

 

[gene hughes]

I think we need to buy 5 or 6 very good players.

So it will cost more than building an average premiership first team.

LB, CH, midfield, 2 talented wide players and a striker

 

[aquaman4]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39500.msg1076781#msg1076781 date=1269604987]
We desperately need a new LB, CM, striker and attacking midfielder (who can play left or right)

Is that rebuilding?
[/quote]
add to that a backup goalkeeper (diego is crap itanje is worse) plus a right winger and a left winger both with pace and can beat the stoppers and cross the ball .that means we need to get rid of insua ,lucas,diego,itanje,riera,ngog and dirk kuyt .

 

[franklyfrank]

[quote author=aquaman4 link=topic=39500.msg1076888#msg1076888 date=1269623935]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39500.msg1076781#msg1076781 date=1269604987]
We desperately need a new LB, CM, striker and attacking midfielder (who can play left or right)

Is that rebuilding?
[/quote]
add to that a backup goalkeeper (diego is crap itanje is worse) plus a right winger and a left winger both with pace and can beat the stoppers and cross the ball .that means we need to get rid of insua ,lucas,diego,itanje,riera,ngog and dirk kuyt .
[/quote]

Errmm what exactly has Cav done wrong? He hasn't put a foot wrong when called upon.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=39500.msg1076746#msg1076746 date=1269598283]
I don't think we need to be making drastic changes.

I'd be more than happy if we could just add another 4 players (5 if we 've already got Jovanovic on a free), and maybe ship out 2-3 squadies.


LB: Taïwo £7m (quite a few on here seem to rate him highly)
Turan £13m
Strikers Jovanovic/??
CM ??

We don't have to spend huge money, maybe about £25m-£30m after sales.




[/quote]

Do you know how few teams are able to spend £25m - £30m after sales ?

That is big money.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39500.msg1076906#msg1076906 date=1269629562]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=39500.msg1076746#msg1076746 date=1269598283]
I don't think we need to be making drastic changes.

I'd be more than happy if we could just add another 4 players (5 if we 've already got Jovanovic on a free), and maybe ship out 2-3 squadies.


LB: Taïwo £7m (quite a few on here seem to rate him highly)
Turan £13m
Strikers Jovanovic/??
CM ??

We don't have to spend huge money, maybe about £25m-£30m after sales.




[/quote]

Do you know how few teams are able to spend £25m - £30m after sales ?

That is big money.
[/quote]


It's about double what our transfer kitty used to be, which as it happens is a fitting amount considering that G&H chose to spend £0 last time around.

Don't forget that Hicks has said that we'll be having a "big" summer!

 

[i_rushie]

I keep hearing calls for Skrtel to be sold in anticipation of some dream partnership between Agger and Kjaer.

Has that poster not noticed that this "dream partnership" is likely to be available for selection perhaps for half our fixtures each season?

For what it's worth, since the turn of the year, we've conceded 2 goals in the 6 league games Skrtel has played in. 5 in the 6 Agger has.

Yes, Skrtel started off the season poorly, but he's gotten better since the start of the year and looked like the player of the past 2 seasons. Agger seems to get off easily when he has poor games simply because he's "stylish" and a "footballer" whatever that means.

There's as much reason to sell Agger as there is to sell Skrtel.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Skrtel is a fine defender.