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Dirk Kuyt - Does he have a future with us?

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[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=43094.msg1230787#msg1230787 date=1291849937]
Like it or not he's one of our most senior players in an average squad.

He's got heaps of experience and his attitude is 2nd to none.

For all his faults he's not worth moving on for the price we would get (Interwithstanding)

So keep him.
[/quote]

just out of interest, what do you think we'd get for him? i hear everyone sticking up for him and then at the same time implying that rafa is the only manager in europe who'd pay decent money for him! i'm not sure that follows...
 
It just hit me, he's 30 years old. So what future are we talking about. I think he's got a year maybe two years left in him.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43094.msg1230794#msg1230794 date=1291853097]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=43094.msg1230787#msg1230787 date=1291849937]
Like it or not he's one of our most senior players in an average squad.

He's got heaps of experience and his attitude is 2nd to none.

For all his faults he's not worth moving on for the price we would get (Interwithstanding)

So keep him.
[/quote]

just out of interest, what do you think we'd get for him? i hear everyone sticking up for him and then at the same time implying that rafa is the only manager in europe who'd pay decent money for him! i'm not sure that follows...
[/quote]I think he would sell for 10 to 15 million.

I just dont really understand the sell him and get better mentality to be honest. He's a 10 goal a season player who will happily play RM, RW, RWF and CF/SS christ he would probably play DM or RB if we asked him to. He's a massive player in the dressing room, he's a great fucking dude and he plays with everything he has every single time he pulls the shirt on.

We arent accountants, i dont understand the lets sell him for x amount or any offer of y would be good. I dont see how selling a player who we know performs to a certain standard at the risk of signing one who performs better or worse.
We've been here before with players. Lets get rid of the players we KNOW arent good enough rather than the ones we know are.
Yes im all for improving but we dont need to sell Dirk to do that. We need to sign better players sure, but we dont need to be the revolving door club we have been for the past decade. I dont want to churn players every three years. I want to identify the areas we need to improve and strengthen the squad in those positions, but not at the expense of players who can and will run through walls for the club.

Keeper - REINA, JONES Ok so thats sorted right?

LB - Konchesky, Aurelio. Id sell both to be honest and buy ONE good LB and then have Kelly as cover.

CB - Agger, Carragher, The Greek, Skrtel, Wilson. Id sell Agger and replace him with a player who isnt always injured Cahill, Shawcross, Huth whatever.

RB - Johnson, Kelly. I think thats sorted to be honest.

DM - Lucas, Spearing. (we need investment here)Spearing out.

CM - Meireles, Shelvey, Gerrard. No issue here.

AM - Cole, Pacheco. I think we are light here and would invest, especially if we arent bringing Aquilani back which looks unlikely.

LM - Babel, Jovanovic. We need investment here for sure.

RM - Maxi, Kuyt. Not really an issue for me, Maxi is a good player and suits a 4-4-2 and Kuyt suits a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3

CF - Torres, N'gog. I think we need another striker badly. Preferably a battering ram like Llorente.

So for me the left hand side is far more important than the right, and Kuyt should stay. I dont really care how much he is worth in the market or how much we could get for him, or what his wages are. Im not an accountant, im a fan and i love him as a player and as a bloke and i want him to be at my club for longer.
 
tbh mate there's nothing much there i disagree with, but - and yes, as the accountant that i am - i do think age and market value are kosher factors when appraising the rebuilding job in our midst. i'm not especially for or against keeping him, but personally i've never been his biggest fan although possibly that's just down to my preference for technique over graft.

the main temptation of selling him for me, though, is based on the assumption that any rebuilding will involve buying *at least* one proper winger, and *at least* one quality striker, and therefore kuyt becomes no more than a squad player. then i think, well, that's a 30 year-old squad player worth maybe £12m, hmmmm... might be worth cashing in now, because realistically we'll 'lose' about £10m of that fee through simple ageing over the next 2 years.

like it or not, this is the brave new world a lot of us think NESV are introducing us to, and tbf, i can see their point.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43094.msg1230794#msg1230794 date=1291853097]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=43094.msg1230787#msg1230787 date=1291849937]
Like it or not he's one of our most senior players in an average squad.

He's got heaps of experience and his attitude is 2nd to none.

For all his faults he's not worth moving on for the price we would get (Interwithstanding)

So keep him.
[/quote]

just out of interest, what do you think we'd get for him? i hear everyone sticking up for him and then at the same time implying that rafa is the only manager in europe who'd pay decent money for him! i'm not sure that follows...
[/quote]

He's pushing 30 now. I would say nothing more than 8M tops. He doesn't have a position he excels in and his first touch has always been average to poor.
 
We should first get a RW, LW and a Striker. After having done that, if we find that Kuyt is surplus to requirements and that he does not add any unique value to the squad, we can sell. Right now, he contributes solidly to the squad.

Of course, if we do that, we would probably get only 5 to 8 million when we move Kuyt on. But i would rather keep him as a failsafe in the event the newcomer doesn't do well, than have that extra 3 or 4 million in the bank.

Having said that, if we do indeed sell him, i'd not be losing any sleep as long as we get in other players for the wing and forward roles.
 
[quote author=iseeredpeople link=topic=43094.msg1230689#msg1230689 date=1291829033]
He has been poor for years. Sell.
[/quote]

What?
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43094.msg1230828#msg1230828 date=1291860894]
tbh mate there's nothing much there i disagree with, but - and yes, as the accountant that i am - i do think age and market value are kosher factors when appraising the rebuilding job in our midst. i'm not especially for or against keeping him, but personally i've never been his biggest fan although possibly that's just down to my preference for technique over graft.

the main temptation of selling him for me, though, is based on the assumption that any rebuilding will involve buying *at least* one proper winger, and *at least* one quality striker, and therefore kuyt becomes no more than a squad player. then i think, well, that's a 30 year-old squad player worth maybe £12m, hmmmm... might be worth cashing in now, because realistically we'll 'lose' about £10m of that fee through simple ageing over the next 2 years.

like it or not, this is the brave new world a lot of us think NESV are introducing us to, and tbf, i can see their point.
[/quote]

Good post Peter.
 
I think the other thing to consider is that Dirk will have a whopping contract until April 2013, whoever buys him will be expected to match whatever he is on for the next two-three years, no one will fancy doing that for a 30 year old, consequently the fee will reflect that.
I would not see him moving on for much over £6-7m to be honest, and as I say for that money we may as well keep the squad depth up.

regards
 
I'm find all these Dirk Kuyt threads baffling. Surely he has done enough in his tenure here to earn our respect. He is one of my favourite players along with Reina.

He might have a stinker every now again and exhibit the touch of Purple Aki at times but he can also be a fantastic asset for us. He has the ability to score and create goals and performs out of his skin in a lot of the bigger games. A. Cole must be sick of the sight of him.

Surely we all 'love' Dirk??
 
Whilst I have respect for his workrate and commitment, he has far too many abysmal performances for me to "love" him.

At 30, after yet another of his "Purple Aki" days on monday, and with the likelihood that we're going to see him offering little on the right of a 4-4-2, I'd rather spend the money (and significant wages) elsewhere.

He offers little (bar defensive solidity) on the right of a 4-4-2. I want someone who's a threat to the opposition in that position.

The "he's scored x amount of goals every season" does not apply to Dirk being on the right of a 4-4-2. More often than not, his goals have come when either covering as striker for Torres, or on the right of a 4-2-3-1 (so higher up the pitch). He's not going to get a run alongside Torres else he would have done already, and besides, N'Gog has been scoring pretty freely himself and the ball sticks with N'Gog.

I think most fans have been more than fair with Dirk. He's the one player who Rafa appeared to pick regardless of form (and he's had large periods of making my eyes bleed). He's always garnered support for the aspects of his game that are valuable irrespective of his touch, pace, unlike many others. He's been handsomely rewarded for his work and has enjoyed fond support. That should not blind anyone from the need to move him on whilst his value is still relatively high and as his value to the team begins to diminish.
 
I love Dirk; but there are good reasons to sell him if we could get a good price.

The trouble is that he's a 30 year old striker who isnt very good and he's a decent RM ONLY in a 4-2-3-1.

We're not going to get a good price.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=43094.msg1230898#msg1230898 date=1291889664]
I love Dirk; but there are good reasons to sell him if we could get a good price.

The trouble is that he's a 30 year old striker who isnt very good and he's a decent RM ONLY in a 4-2-3-1.

We're not going to get a good price.
[/quote]

That's harsh Avvy. Let's not forget he also had a very good world cup.

Of course if someone offered us silly money we would sell but I would hate to lose Dirk. I think he is an asset for us and I'll continue to fight his corner. 😉
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=43094.msg1230847#msg1230847 date=1291875754]
[quote author=iseeredpeople link=topic=43094.msg1230689#msg1230689 date=1291829033]
He has been poor for years. Sell.
[/quote]

What?


[/quote]

The last time he was good for us was in the 08-09 season. We are now in the 10-11 season. So he has been poor for years.
Obviously we need to be certain we can replace him with better before we sell him.
Yes I love his attitude blah blah blah. It just isnt enough.
 
i still don't understand why everyone assumes we couldn't get more than £6-7m for kuyt, but we'll probably never know for sure so i suppose we'll have to agee to disagree.

west ham turned down £9m for cartlon cole in the summer - that isn't a big fee in today's market. and isn't elmander being valued - only by the press, admittedly - at £5m this january, with 6 months on his contract?!
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=43094.msg1230881#msg1230881 date=1291887441]
I'm find all these Dirk Kuyt threads baffling. Surely he has done enough in his tenure here to earn our respect. He is one of my favourite players along with Reina.

He might have a stinker every now again and exhibit the touch of Purple Aki at times but he can also be a fantastic asset for us. He has the ability to score and create goals and performs out of his skin in a lot of the bigger games. A. Cole must be sick of the sight of him.

Surely we all 'love' Dirk??
[/quote]

This!!!
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43094.msg1231118#msg1231118 date=1291908489]
i still don't understand why everyone assumes we couldn't get more than £6-7m for kuyt, but we'll probably never know for sure so i suppose we'll have to agee to disagree.

west ham turned down £9m for cartlon cole in the summer - that isn't a big fee in today's market. and isn't elmander being valued - only by the press, admittedly - at £5m this january, with 6 months on his contract?!
[/quote]

I think most prospective buyers don't see what he'd bring; as a striker he's just Ok,and as a RM he only really does well in a 4-2-3-1, and mos teams probably already have better wingers.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=43094.msg1231896#msg1231896 date=1292059144]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43094.msg1231118#msg1231118 date=1291908489]
i still don't understand why everyone assumes we couldn't get more than £6-7m for kuyt, but we'll probably never know for sure so i suppose we'll have to agee to disagree.

west ham turned down £9m for cartlon cole in the summer - that isn't a big fee in today's market. and isn't elmander being valued - only by the press, admittedly - at £5m this january, with 6 months on his contract?!
[/quote]

I think most prospective buyers don't see what he'd bring; as a striker he's just Ok,and as a RM he only really does well in a 4-2-3-1, and mos teams probably already have better wingers.
[/quote]

So why is he good enough for us then?
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=43094.msg1231901#msg1231901 date=1292059975]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=43094.msg1231896#msg1231896 date=1292059144]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43094.msg1231118#msg1231118 date=1291908489]
i still don't understand why everyone assumes we couldn't get more than £6-7m for kuyt, but we'll probably never know for sure so i suppose we'll have to agee to disagree.

west ham turned down £9m for cartlon cole in the summer - that isn't a big fee in today's market. and isn't elmander being valued - only by the press, admittedly - at £5m this january, with 6 months on his contract?!
[/quote]

I think most prospective buyers don't see what he'd bring; as a striker he's just Ok,and as a RM he only really does well in a 4-2-3-1, and mos teams probably already have better wingers.
[/quote]

So why is he good enough for us then?
[/quote]

because we're shit
 
Another shit 45 minutes of mis-control, misplaced passes and failing to beat his man.

Brilliant.
 
He's always been shit on the right in the 4-4-2.

It's been obvious to anyone with a clue for years, but still we persist...
 
Taken from RAWK...

If you want to see some illuminating evidence regarding Kuyt's play, look at this.

http://www.guardianchalkboards.com/guardianchalkboards_embed.swf?chalkBoardID=2j1D8i3062Hr80w1641V
This is why we are toothless in attack, Dirk's passing touch has abandoned him. When a move reaches him, the attack breaks down because he is unable to find the next player to pass to.

Further evidence regarding his movement and ability to receive passes:

http://www.guardianchalkboards.com/guardianchalkboards_embed.swf?chalkBoardID=kJo9r3Cy721I4NRR86tm

However you want to look at it the problem lies in Kuyt's effectiveness in attack- when we start an attacking move, it dies when it moves to the right side of the field.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=43094.msg1231943#msg1231943 date=1292072777]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=43094.msg1231901#msg1231901 date=1292059975]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=43094.msg1231896#msg1231896 date=1292059144]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=43094.msg1231118#msg1231118 date=1291908489]
i still don't understand why everyone assumes we couldn't get more than £6-7m for kuyt, but we'll probably never know for sure so i suppose we'll have to agee to disagree.

west ham turned down £9m for cartlon cole in the summer - that isn't a big fee in today's market. and isn't elmander being valued - only by the press, admittedly - at £5m this january, with 6 months on his contract?!
[/quote]

I think most prospective buyers don't see what he'd bring; as a striker he's just Ok,and as a RM he only really does well in a 4-2-3-1, and mos teams probably already have better wingers.
[/quote]

So why is he good enough for us then?
[/quote]

because we're shit
[/quote]


🙁
 
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