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Diego Simeone

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RedStar said:
Certainly a possibility but didnt he turn us down before?
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[article=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2874298/Liverpool-Ajax-boss-Frank-Boer-despite-rejecting-Anfield-Brendan-Rodgers-appointed.html#ixzz3LyBMbRK6 ]In April, he became the first man to win four straight Eredivisie titles, and achieved the feat with a core of young players integrated into the first team through the club's world renowned academy.

'If Liverpool come now he would certainly think about it,' De Boer's brother Ronald said to Fox Sports.

'He would certainly not close the door immediately, like he did two years ago.'[/article]
 
Silver Sean said:
OK. I agree that sacking him now would be a mistake. Despite the awful run we're on. I guess the owners will be seriously considering what finishing 9th or similar might do to us if they wait till the summer to see where we're at. Can they see him turning this around? There are serious question marks about his defensive coaching, his player recruitment and his inability to have a coherent strategy on the pitch. He appears to have no idea what his best team is and he's been found wanting on numerous occasions tactically. He's also struggling to motivate the team and their mistrust of his approach to each individual game is apparent every time they take the field. He has also spent a fortune on underwhelming players. Having said that, if he comes through this and we rediscover some of the fluidity and will to win from last season he'll come out of it a better manager and more able to keep the job. I persoanlly doubt he can rescue it from here. I hope I'm wrong.
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That's a good analysis, I think I agree, although I have slightly more hope than you do. I believe Rodgers will be a better coach after this season one way or another, he's being forced to learn a lot of hard lessons fast, one he probably wouldn't have learnt any other way. The question remains, was he ever the forward thinking progressive coach we thought he was last season, or did he simply get the best out of Suarez and cover his short comings? I still think it's more of the former than the latter, although I won't lie my opinion is starting to waver.

I believe we stand to benefit greatly if he comes through this spell, he'll be a better manager, we'll be a better team, and we'll be a lot more resilient to these kind of slumps in form in future. I do agree with what Ross said in the other thread however, we have to insist upon him that we bring in some new and stronger coaches to support him, and touching on what GK has said from time to time, there's too many yes men around him, he needs people around him to push back on him and some of his ideas, he doesn't know best about everything, and he's still learning, he needs to accept that, and he needs people around him who'll remind him of that too.

For me the situation ultimately falls back to the question I asked in the first paragraph, is he that progressive forward coach we thought he was? Well, he's got til the end of the season to prove he is.
 
Is De Boer that unproven after winning the League 4 times in a row?
Qualifying for the second round of the CL with an Ajax team put together on a pretty low budget.

De Boer did turn us down 2,5 years ago but said this summer that he could see himself as Liverpool manager.
 
Judge Jules said:
Despite how far off the pace we've fallen in the last couple of decades, we're still one of the top three or four most successful clubs in European football. The manager who gets us back up there will get a page all to himself in the history of the game. Not every big name would be attracted by the challenge, but I'd be surprised if none were.
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No, we're really not. We no longer win trophies (blame Rodgers please ___), we cannot attract the top talent due to money/weather/musical tastes etc, will routinely sell our best players etc ... Why would Simeone leave Atleti for us boggles the mind unless we double or triple his pay. Which means he'll be gone soon enough too.
 
LeTallecWiz said:
No, we're really not. We no longer win trophies (blame Rodgers please ___), we cannot attract the top talent due to money/weather/musical tastes etc, will routinely sell our best players etc ... Why would Simeone leave Atleti for us boggles the mind unless we double or triple his pay. Which means he'll be gone soon enough too.
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The record books say different, old friend. Of course it's true, as I accepted in my earlier post, that we've fallen far off the pace for a long time now, but being Liverpool still does count for something out there - witness for example the way numerous people in the European game were saying at the end of last season how glad they were that we'd be back in the CL, or the way De Boer has apparently now expressed an interest in the LFC job.

Facing up to our problems is one thing, but OD'ing on pessimism is another. Don't get the two confused, OK? 🙂
 
Hansern said:
Is De Boer that unproven after winning the League 4 times in a row?
Qualifying for the second round of the CL with an Ajax team put together on a pretty low budget.

De Boer did turn us down 2,5 years ago but said this summer that he could see himself as Liverpool manager.
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I'd prefer De Boer to Simeone.

Simeone strikes me as a loose cannon, but not a tactically great one. A poor mans Jose Mourinho.
 
Judge Jules said:
The record books say different, old friend. Of course it's true, as I accepted in my earlier post, that we've fallen far off the pace for a long time now, but being Liverpool still does count for something out there - witness for example the way numerous people in the European game were saying at the end of last season how glad they were that we'd be back in the CL, or the way De Boer has apparently now expressed an interest in the LFC job.

Facing up to our problems is one thing, but OD'ing on pessimism is another. Don't get the two confused, OK? 🙂
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No pessimism - pragmatic and realistic.
 
keniget said:
Eh?
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Hes pretty rigidly defensive and somewhat cynical so I can see the comparison. I like him for shaking up the established order in Spain but he doesnt play the type of football Id be interested in watching.

I thought one of the goals of FSG with managers was (starting with Rodgers) to promote some sort of consistency in terms of style, that way you get more continuity through the squad/academy if you do change managers. Simeone would mean ripping up anything Rodgers has done and starting from scratch. Klopp could probably build on the work we have done so far, dont know enough about DeBoers Ajax team to say.
 
keniget said:
I'm more intrigued to learn why he's tactically not very good.
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Im not sure but Id imagine the insinuation is that hes a bit like Houllier, he can set up a team to be very solid and difficult to beat but hes not really capable of anything more imaginative than that. The whole tactical thing tends to be a little bit over done in my opinion, I mean people keep going on about what a genius of a tactician VanGaal is but his team is completely reliant upon their goalkeeper to stop them leaking goals, the midfield and defence he has set up is awful no matter how frequently he changes formation. Similarly Klopp is usually referred to as a brilliant tactician but hes getting his arse handed to him on a weekly basis this season.

Most managers have a default playing style and make minor changes on a game by game basis, managers that play an open attacking game tend to be seen as tactically naive but Im not sure thats the case, I think they just believe that a team with good attacking players should play to its strengths.
 
Lippy said:
I think De Boer is more likely
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He'd be about the only one I'd be interested in.

Klopp is having more problems with Dortmund than Rodgers is having with Liverpool.

Simeone had a sensational season last year but he's starting to struggle a little now. I think the real test of a good manager is whether he can turn something like this around.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I don't think Rodgers spent money badly at all and most top managers out there would have looked at who we'd bought and thought "good players, going to get better". The one obvious question was Mario who may or may not turn out to be a good signing.

It's not the players Rodgers spent money on that is an issue - it's the players he didn't spend money on. He's bought in a number of very good players but missing was that lethal, goal scoring talent. Too much faith placed in Sturridge. In the summer a secondary priority (after goals) should have been a keeper. I think that's now turned into just about our major priority.

Would Simeone or Klopp have bought the same players - probably not. Would they have bought better players - probably not.

Would they have identified a genuine goal scoring striker and top class keeper who would have come here? That's the 70m pound question and I don't really know of anyone who would have served the purpose and would have said yes. Maybe they would have - just as likely they wouldn't have.
 
I'd do anything for a manager who can set up his team to be hard to beat, tough, organised and ultra defensive IF we then spent the money on world class forwards. Modern football is all about having a tight defensive unit, a top DM and then having pace, skill and goalscoring threat up front. Stop them scoring, unleash a hellish trio of forwards backed up by solid wing play and attacking midfielder. It's fucking simple. Pisses me off that BR insists we don't need a top DM. If we'd have got Song from Barca even that would ahve been a start.

He bought a shit keeper, no DM, created a shit defensive unit and has one 20 year old kid trying to do the job of three worldies up front. We've fucked up as badly this season as we did after we finished 2nd in '09.
Load of bollocks.
 
Silver Sean said:
I'd do anything for a manager who can set up his team to be hard to beat, tough, organised and ultra defensive IF we then spent the money on world class forwards. Modern football is all about having a tight defensive unit, a top DM and then having pace, skill and goalscoring threat up front. Stop them scoring, unleash a hellish trio of forwards backed up by solid wing play and attacking midfielder. It's fucking simple. Pisses me off that BR insists we don't need a top DM. If we'd have got Song from Barca even that would ahve been a start.

He bought a shit keeper, no DM, created a shit defensive unit and has one 20 year old kid trying to do the job of three worldies up front. We've fucked up as badly this season as we did after we finished 2nd in '09.
Load of bollocks.
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It is massively better in one respect. Most of the squad is young, talented players rather than over the hill, overpaid free transfers (Degen x12) so if Brodge gets fucked off the new guy will have less of a mess to sort out
 
SummerOnions said:
It is massively better in one respect. Most of the squad is young, talented players rather than over the hill, overpaid free transfers (Degen x12) so if Brodge gets fucked off the new guy will have less of a mess to sort out
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From just a talent perspective even an ultra conservative unimaginative manager should be able to get us competing for fourth, especially given how bad the League as a whole has been.
 
Wizardry said:
He'd be about the only one I'd be interested in.

Klopp is having more problems with Dortmund than Rodgers is having with Liverpool.

Simeone had a sensational season last year but he's starting to struggle a little now. I think the real test of a good manager is whether he can turn something like this around.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I don't think Rodgers spent money badly at all and most top managers out there would have looked at who we'd bought and thought "good players, going to get better". The one obvious question was Mario who may or may not turn out to be a good signing.

It's not the players Rodgers spent money on that is an issue - it's the players he didn't spend money on. He's bought in a number of very good players but missing was that lethal, goal scoring talent. Too much faith placed in Sturridge. In the summer a secondary priority (after goals) should have been a keeper. I think that's now turned into just about our major priority.

Would Simeone or Klopp have bought the same players - probably not. Would they have bought better players - probably not.

Would they have identified a genuine goal scoring striker and top class keeper who would have come here? That's the 70m pound question and I don't really know of anyone who would have served the purpose and would have said yes. Maybe they would have - just as likely they wouldn't have.
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One could argue that it's the manager's job to then go and get the best out of the players he's bought, whatever standard and whatever price paid. BR is failing to improve the ones he's bought or even get them to play at the level they produced that lead to us buying them in the first place. If turning it around is the sign of a good manager then we are about to see if BR is one.
 
Silver Sean said:
One could argue that it's the manager's job to then go and get the best out of the players he's bought, whatever standard and whatever price paid. BR is failing to improve the ones he's bought or even get them to play at the level they produced that lead to us buying them in the first place. If turning it around is the sign of a good manager then we are about to see if BR is one.
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I suspect there's a few he purposefully avoids playing to try and send a message to the committee as well. A passive aggressive power grab.
 
That Wizardry might be right that no other manager would have signed better players, that's exactly why they shouldn't be allowed to do it.

If they all get it wrong - and you think those were good buys - then you're looking at the problem in the wrong way
 
Hansern - if managers are so important explain the following to me.

And to be clear here's where I think they rank in importance with regard to what wins games:
1. The players - minimum 60%
2. Luck - 33%
3. Manager - the rest

Now anyone who thinks it's different, I'm all ears. So what I'd like to know is if the manager is much more important than that how if Swansea got to midtable because of Rodgers, how are they still there without him? Are his replacements as good as him?

And how has our position varied so much while the manager has stayed the same in the last three seasons?

Why, when everyone predicted the end of Southampton when Pocchetino left for Spurs, why haven't they fallen away?

Why are Spurs no better with him?

How did Roberto Di Matteo average 2 points a game in the league the same as Benitez - when everyone rates Benitez higher? How did Avram Grant come within a penalty shoot out of a Cl win if he's a shit manager?

How do you, without knowing anything about a clubs workings decide whether a manager is doing a good job or not? Just results?
 
Bollocks.

Training, tactics, player selection,specific instruction - aren't important. Don't be ridiculous.

They way you'd wibble on about this, you'd think players just wander on to the pitch, do whatever they fancy and hope for a lucky break.

I actually think you have no concept of what a manager does in any aspect of life.
 
Rosco said:
Hansern - if managers are so important explain the following to me.

And to be clear here's where I think they rank in importance with regard to what wins games:
1. The players - minimum 60%
2. Luck - 33%
3. Manager - the rest

Now anyone who thinks it's different, I'm all ears. So what I'd like to know is if the manager is much more important than that how if Swansea got to midtable because of Rodgers, how are they still there without him? Are his replacements as good as him?

And how has our position varied so much while the manager has stayed the same in the last three seasons?

Why, when everyone predicted the end of Southampton when Pocchetino left for Spurs, why haven't they fallen away?

Why are Spurs no better with him?

How did Roberto Di Matteo average 2 points a game in the league the same as Benitez - when everyone rates Benitez higher? How did Avram Grant come within a penalty shoot out of a Cl win if he's a shit manager?

How do you, without knowing anything about a clubs workings decide whether a manager is doing a good job or not? Just results?
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Dreamy - if I were you'd I'd be quoting this shit for truth. It's about the only thing that'll take the glare of your Torres-abortion right about now.
 
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