David Maddock and Kop Faithful

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=StevieM link=topic=41733.msg1169072#msg1169072 date=1283437196]
[quote author=crump link=topic=41733.msg1169023#msg1169023 date=1283424890]
Unfortunately, Goldman Sachs et al have already done their corporate thang up the road in Manchester. Liverpool is not a financial centre and never will be. There was a box available to any takes a couple of weeks before kick off this season.
[/quote]

You almost sound like you're suggesting we're an average sized provincial side incapable of competing with the big boys from Manchester & London.
[/quote]
Ouch.... Those are however the stakes at the minute, certainly it's a possible future if it we continue as we are.

 

[Molbystwin]

For me an important question would be just how long will us as fans be willing to accept being complete also rans? 2 consecutive years with zero investment and we've been overtaken by two more clubs in the meantime, we'll always have our history as a truly great club but would we accept just slowing dying away as a challenger year after year, IMO we are not favorites to even finish fourth this year and regardless of who is in charge that is not a normal situation for us and I wonder if it does carry on at what point will the fans rebel against the situation in a meaningful less pathetic way. Or indeed is it inevitable for us to be in shadows ad infinitum crowing about championships of the past, Wolves were a massive club in the fifties .... I don't know.... It could be that we steady the ship and the freakish behavior of Chelsea and City is curtailed leaving us with just our traditional rivals but there really is no guarantee of that. The lure of the club used to attract far better than the likes of journeyman players like Konchesky. At what point does the sleeping giant become a former giant? I don't blame the owners for this at all really by the way, it isn't actually there fault that's the money in the game has gone fucking crazy, but at the same time our uncompetitiveness is looking fairly assured with them at the helm. Next season there is a fair probability that our one marquee player will leave for a club which can compete and for a club like ours to be in that position is really very sad, or at least I think it is. The question is do any of us actually see a solution to this situation without a change of ownership and if not how long are you willing to wait before making your feelings known about it? Or indeed will the ridiculous money bubble and wage craziness all stop all of a sudden allowing us to naturally float back up to a more suitable position at the top table again.

Ittook us along time to get comfortable in the champs league I just worry that we might not get back in there for a very long while.

 

[keniget]

People are already making their feelings known, I mean, look at the article that kicked this thread off. What good is doing them?

 

[RolandG]

The Americans don't give a fuck about the fans. The only way we can hurt them is boycotting matches. The loss of revenue is the only language that they understand.

Unfortunately, the team will suffer!

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=41733.msg1169122#msg1169122 date=1283449062]
People are already making their feelings known, I mean, look at the article that kicked this thread off. What good is doing them?
[/quote]

You could be right but Liverpool fans are patient and loyal by nature, also most of the protest up to know has been poorly supported and proposed from some quasi-political angle. I don't actually know the answer to the question tbh. I suspect that we will sit back and just nature run it's course and the truth is I would happily support them in the conference if it came to it, I just wonder if there can be anything we can unite for and do and at what point will that be.

 

[jason]

Sunday Bloody Sunday.
sorry right words right thread.

 

[rebel23]

the CL money argument is nonsense, since the cancers took over the PL rights money has doubled, possibly trippled with the new overseas agreement. even if we had CL money it wouldnt make much of a difference to transfer funds under G&H (it didnt last year). Benitez made this point once, saying last season it didnt matter if we qualified for the CL for the transfer budget.

The fact is the interest payments are crippling the club and we would have to not only have CL money but be the bestest team ever, have a stadium double the size etc. to meet them i.e it's impossible and won't happen, it can't happen (ticket price increases is small beer), we face certain bankruptcy

it's economics of the mad house and some of us have pointed this out since they took over whereas people like Rosco have defended the financial position of the club as we were able to once afford to sign Robbie Keane so all must be well

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=41733.msg1169223#msg1169223 date=1283495373]
the CL money argument is nonsense, since the cancers took over the PL rights money has doubled, possibly trippled with the new overseas agreement. even if we had CL money it wouldnt make much of a difference to transfer funds under G&H (it didnt last year). Benitez made this point once, saying last season it didnt matter if we qualified for the CL for the transfer budget.

The fact is the interest payments are crippling the club and we would have to not only have CL money but be the bestest team ever, have a stadium double the size etc. to meet them i.e it's impossible and won't happen, it can't happen (ticket price increases is small beer), we face certain bankruptcy

it's economics of the mad house and some of us have pointed this out since they took over whereas people like Rosco have defended the financial position of the club as we were able to once afford to sign Robbie Keane so all must be well

[/quote]

*rebel takes off glove*

*slaps rosco in the face with glove*

*throws glove on ground in front of rosco*

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=41733.msg1169223#msg1169223 date=1283495373]
the CL money argument is nonsense, since the cancers took over the PL rights money has doubled, possibly trippled with the new overseas agreement. even if we had CL money it wouldnt make much of a difference to transfer funds under G&H (it didnt last year). Benitez made this point once, saying last season it didnt matter if we qualified for the CL for the transfer budget.

The fact is the interest payments are crippling the club and we would have to not only have CL money but be the bestest team ever, have a stadium double the size etc. to meet them i.e it's impossible and won't happen, it can't happen (ticket price increases is small beer), we face certain bankruptcy

it's economics of the mad house and some of us have pointed this out since they took over whereas people like Rosco have defended the financial position of the club as we were able to once afford to sign Robbie Keane so all must be well

[/quote]


I don't think I'm defending the financial position of the club, I'm looking at it and seeing that we're in trouble regardless of the owners.

As for your contribution as ever it's all over the place and full of falsehoods.

We received 52m in revenue under the Media heading in the accounts (including TV revenue) in the year the Yanks took over, last year it was at 74m.

52 x 2 = 74 ?

Spidey you should know better at this stage.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41733.msg1169234#msg1169234 date=1283497406]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=41733.msg1169223#msg1169223 date=1283495373]
the CL money argument is nonsense, since the cancers took over the PL rights money has doubled, possibly trippled with the new overseas agreement. even if we had CL money it wouldnt make much of a difference to transfer funds under G&H (it didnt last year). Benitez made this point once, saying last season it didnt matter if we qualified for the CL for the transfer budget.

The fact is the interest payments are crippling the club and we would have to not only have CL money but be the bestest team ever, have a stadium double the size etc. to meet them i.e it's impossible and won't happen, it can't happen (ticket price increases is small beer), we face certain bankruptcy

it's economics of the mad house and some of us have pointed this out since they took over whereas people like Rosco have defended the financial position of the club as we were able to once afford to sign Robbie Keane so all must be well

[/quote]


I don't think I'm defending the financial position of the club, I'm looking at it and seeing that we're in trouble regardless of the owners.

As for your contribution as ever it's all over the place and full of falsehoods.

We received 52m in revenue under the Media heading in the accounts (including TV revenue) in the year the Yanks took over, last year it was at 74m.

52 x 2 = 74 ?

Spidey you should know better at this stage.
[/quote]

only messing ros 😉

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41733.msg1169234#msg1169234 date=1283497406]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=41733.msg1169223#msg1169223 date=1283495373]
the CL money argument is nonsense, since the cancers took over the PL rights money has doubled, possibly trippled with the new overseas agreement. even if we had CL money it wouldnt make much of a difference to transfer funds under G&H (it didnt last year). Benitez made this point once, saying last season it didnt matter if we qualified for the CL for the transfer budget.

The fact is the interest payments are crippling the club and we would have to not only have CL money but be the bestest team ever, have a stadium double the size etc. to meet them i.e it's impossible and won't happen, it can't happen (ticket price increases is small beer), we face certain bankruptcy

it's economics of the mad house and some of us have pointed this out since they took over whereas people like Rosco have defended the financial position of the club as we were able to once afford to sign Robbie Keane so all must be well

[/quote]


I don't think I'm defending the financial position of the club, I'm looking at it and seeing that we're in trouble regardless of the owners.

As for your contribution as ever it's all over the place and full of falsehoods.

We received 52m in revenue under the Media heading in the accounts (including TV revenue) in the year the Yanks took over, last year it was at 74m.

52 x 2 = 74 ?

Spidey you should know better at this stage.
[/quote]

So thats a 42% revenue increase and yet debt is increasing faster than ever? To just sit calmly by and suggest that the owners are somehow innocent victims left with us as a poison chalice of a club beyond their control is disingenuous Ros and it does give the impression of tacit suppot. We are in Trouble and it is getting worse despite a 42% revenue increase!! Whose fault is that if it isnt the owners fault?

You seem to have the figures to hand so just out of interest by how many percent has the wage bill increased? And Spidey is right, whatever criticism justified or otherwise that can be thrown at Benitez to suggest that it is CL which was paying for acquisition doesnt quite add up does it? Benitez had a fine record in Europe and yet the season before being fired, when we finished second and in the CL yet again no net investment, to disastrous effect morale wise and season wise.

Where does the responsibility lie exactly, with the players wages as you suggested earlier?? So when our star striker comes out in the press and states that we need to change owners pronto should we not just turn round and say Actually nando its your fault we are in this mess....

And you've got the front to accuse another poster of being all over the place...

 

[StevieM]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=41733.msg1169241#msg1169241 date=1283502307]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41733.msg1169234#msg1169234 date=1283497406]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=41733.msg1169223#msg1169223 date=1283495373]
the CL money argument is nonsense, since the cancers took over the PL rights money has doubled, possibly trippled with the new overseas agreement. even if we had CL money it wouldnt make much of a difference to transfer funds under G&H (it didnt last year). Benitez made this point once, saying last season it didnt matter if we qualified for the CL for the transfer budget.

The fact is the interest payments are crippling the club and we would have to not only have CL money but be the bestest team ever, have a stadium double the size etc. to meet them i.e it's impossible and won't happen, it can't happen (ticket price increases is small beer), we face certain bankruptcy

it's economics of the mad house and some of us have pointed this out since they took over whereas people like Rosco have defended the financial position of the club as we were able to once afford to sign Robbie Keane so all must be well

[/quote]


I don't think I'm defending the financial position of the club, I'm looking at it and seeing that we're in trouble regardless of the owners.

As for your contribution as ever it's all over the place and full of falsehoods.

We received 52m in revenue under the Media heading in the accounts (including TV revenue) in the year the Yanks took over, last year it was at 74m.

52 x 2 = 74 ?

Spidey you should know better at this stage.
[/quote]

So thats a 42% revenue increase and yet debt is increasing faster than ever? To just sit calmly by and suggest that the owners are somehow innocent victims left with us as a poison chalice of a club beyond their control is disingenuous Ros and it does give the impression of tacit suppot. We are in Trouble and it is getting worse despite a 42% revenue increase!! Whose fault is that if it isnt the owners fault?

You seem to have the figures to hand so just out of interest by how many percent has the wage bill increased? And Spidey is right, whatever criticism justified or otherwise that can be thrown at Benitez to suggest that it is CL which was paying for acquisition doesnt quite add up does it? Benitez had a fine record in Europe and yet the season before being fired, when we finished second and in the CL yet again no net investment, to disastrous effect morale wise and season wise.

Where does the responsibility lie exactly, with the players wages as you suggested earlier?? So when our star striker comes out in the press and states that we need to change owners pronto should we not just turn round and say Actually nando its your fault we are in this mess....

And you've got the front to accuse another poster of being all over the place...


[/quote]

To be fair to Ross... I don't recall him ever saying that G&H are "innocent victims", rather that they are part of a bigger problem.

The current model we're operating under isn't self sustainable regardless of the debt payments.

However, Ross does often downplay the role of the interest paymenst on the loans.

We've made a loss of 92m in the last 2 years with 76m of that being in interest payments.

 

[Wilko7]

76m in interest payments in two years?

I doubt we'd be in the situation we find ourselves in today if the shite lived in Southport or the Wirral or somewhere else close by. 3000 miles is an awfully useful buffer for pond life from over the pond, especially when they are destroying LFC. No doubt old Tom would have been attacked and his property vandalised and poor Cinda would have long since become tired of being called a robbing old slag everytime she's having a blue rinse or popping out for a pint of milk.

 

[jason]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41733.msg1168993#msg1168993 date=1283419681]
Default yes, administration no. I've yet to see a convincing explanation why the bank would go that far and, in doing so, significantly depress the price it could demand for the club.
[/quote]
What if the bank wanted to own the club.

 

[Judge Jules]

All the more reason for them not to hand control to an independent administrator.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=jason link=topic=41733.msg1169279#msg1169279 date=1283509210]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41733.msg1168993#msg1168993 date=1283419681]
Default yes, administration no. I've yet to see a convincing explanation why the bank would go that far and, in doing so, significantly depress the price it could demand for the club.
[/quote]
What if the bank wanted to own the club.
[/quote]

Would never happen the government wouldn't allow it.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=41733.msg1169303#msg1169303 date=1283511406]
[quote author=jason link=topic=41733.msg1169279#msg1169279 date=1283509210]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41733.msg1168993#msg1168993 date=1283419681]
Default yes, administration no. I've yet to see a convincing explanation why the bank would go that far and, in doing so, significantly depress the price it could demand for the club.
[/quote]
What if the bank wanted to own the club.
[/quote]

Would never happen the government wouldn't allow it.
[/quote]

I don't think the bank would do it any way as it's more trouble than its worth.
liverpool falling into the hands of the banks with the yanks defaulting sounds like a good idea to me, sure the club would take a 10 point hit but the yanks out of the picture the bank could sell at a more realistic price and that would make the club more attractive, but I can't see that happening as I'm sure RBS would rather refinance than do that.

 

[Judge Jules]

Why? If they refinance they're just pouring good money after bad.

BTW there would only be a points deduction (9 points, I think) if we actually went into administration.

 

[manwithnoname]

Good money after bad? I bet they're hating the millions of pounds in interest payments

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41733.msg1169316#msg1169316 date=1283512030]
Good money after bad? I bet they're hating the millions of pounds in interest payments
[/quote]

exactly, currently the bank is making a fortune off us. if the bank refinanced they would still be getting their money, albeit with the club edging towards oblivion but they would still be getting their money until that eventually happened.

 

[jexykrodic]

I've become confused with it all. As far as I understand it H&G got a loan to buy the shares and are now loaning the club money for the interest payments on that loan via an investment vehicle and then charging us interest on the interest, so both RBS and H&G are either being paid interest or are accruing interest? It's baffling and just seems like a scam. Or have I got it all wrong? I'm baffled. Somebody's gonna call in the asset at some point aren't they?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=41733.msg1169329#msg1169329 date=1283513455]
I've become confused with it all. As far as I understand it H&G got a loan to buy the shares and are now loaning the club money for the interest payments on that loan via an investment vehicle and then charging us interest on the interest, so both RBS and H&G are either being paid interest or are accruing interest? It's baffling and just seems like a scam. Or have I got it all wrong? I'm baffled. Somebody's gonna call in the asset at some point aren't they?
[/quote]

basically, just think about the money owed to RBS. the money owed to G&H doesn't come into effect until the club is actually sold.

 

[jexykrodic]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41733.msg1169330#msg1169330 date=1283513658]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=41733.msg1169329#msg1169329 date=1283513455]
I've become confused with it all. As far as I understand it H&G got a loan to buy the shares and are now loaning the club money for the interest payments on that loan via an investment vehicle and then charging us interest on the interest, so both RBS and H&G are either being paid interest or are accruing interest? It's baffling and just seems like a scam. Or have I got it all wrong? I'm baffled. Somebody's gonna call in the asset at some point aren't they?
[/quote]

basically, just think about the money owed to RBS. the money owed to G&H doesn't come into effect until the club is actually sold.
[/quote]

At the risk of seeming extra dull, does that mean that it's in H&G's interests to delay the sale then? The longer it takes to sell the more their investment vehicle is owed...

 

[peekay]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41733.msg1169234#msg1169234 date=1283497406]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=41733.msg1169223#msg1169223 date=1283495373]
the CL money argument is nonsense, since the cancers took over the PL rights money has doubled, possibly trippled with the new overseas agreement. even if we had CL money it wouldnt make much of a difference to transfer funds under G&H (it didnt last year). Benitez made this point once, saying last season it didnt matter if we qualified for the CL for the transfer budget.

The fact is the interest payments are crippling the club and we would have to not only have CL money but be the bestest team ever, have a stadium double the size etc. to meet them i.e it's impossible and won't happen, it can't happen (ticket price increases is small beer), we face certain bankruptcy

it's economics of the mad house and some of us have pointed this out since they took over whereas people like Rosco have defended the financial position of the club as we were able to once afford to sign Robbie Keane so all must be well

[/quote]


I don't think I'm defending the financial position of the club, I'm looking at it and seeing that we're in trouble regardless of the owners.

As for your contribution as ever it's all over the place and full of falsehoods.

We received 52m in revenue under the Media heading in the accounts (including TV revenue) in the year the Yanks took over, last year it was at 74m.

52 x 2 = 74 ?

Spidey you should know better at this stage.
[/quote]

Isn't the financial position of the club because of the owners. Isn't the interest we are paying the cost of owning the club? So how can we say that regardless of the owners we will be in trouble. Unless every owner on the planet puts the debt of purchasing the club on the club and it is a common practice?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=41733.msg1169332#msg1169332 date=1283513958]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41733.msg1169330#msg1169330 date=1283513658]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=41733.msg1169329#msg1169329 date=1283513455]
I've become confused with it all. As far as I understand it H&G got a loan to buy the shares and are now loaning the club money for the interest payments on that loan via an investment vehicle and then charging us interest on the interest, so both RBS and H&G are either being paid interest or are accruing interest? It's baffling and just seems like a scam. Or have I got it all wrong? I'm baffled. Somebody's gonna call in the asset at some point aren't they?
[/quote]

basically, just think about the money owed to RBS. the money owed to G&H doesn't come into effect until the club is actually sold.
[/quote]

At the risk of seeming extra dull, does that mean that it's in H&G's interests to delay the sale then? The longer it takes to sell the more their investment vehicle is owed...
[/quote]

I'm not 100% certain but I'm pretty certain G&H are calculating the interest but we aren't currently paying the interest, this (the interest) would only be added to the sum we owe the owners once the club is sold. the only interest we are currently paying is for the RBS loan. someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[StevieM]

[quote author=peekay link=topic=41733.msg1169334#msg1169334 date=1283514073]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41733.msg1169234#msg1169234 date=1283497406]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=41733.msg1169223#msg1169223 date=1283495373]
the CL money argument is nonsense, since the cancers took over the PL rights money has doubled, possibly trippled with the new overseas agreement. even if we had CL money it wouldnt make much of a difference to transfer funds under G&H (it didnt last year). Benitez made this point once, saying last season it didnt matter if we qualified for the CL for the transfer budget.

The fact is the interest payments are crippling the club and we would have to not only have CL money but be the bestest team ever, have a stadium double the size etc. to meet them i.e it's impossible and won't happen, it can't happen (ticket price increases is small beer), we face certain bankruptcy

it's economics of the mad house and some of us have pointed this out since they took over whereas people like Rosco have defended the financial position of the club as we were able to once afford to sign Robbie Keane so all must be well

[/quote]


I don't think I'm defending the financial position of the club, I'm looking at it and seeing that we're in trouble regardless of the owners.

As for your contribution as ever it's all over the place and full of falsehoods.

We received 52m in revenue under the Media heading in the accounts (including TV revenue) in the year the Yanks took over, last year it was at 74m.

52 x 2 = 74 ?

Spidey you should know better at this stage.
[/quote]

Isn't the financial position of the club because of the owners. Isn't the interest we are paying the cost of owning the club? So how can we say that regardless of the owners we will be in trouble. Unless every owner on the planet puts the debt of purchasing the club on the club and it is a common practice?
[/quote]

... because regardless of the loans, we'd still have been running at a loss.

So even if a new owner comes in tomorrow and pays of the clubs debts out of their own pocket, as an entity we are operating at a loss.

So.... the only way to fix that is either to increase revenue (which means CL football + newstadium + new sponsorhip deals - some of which we have in place)

Or... we decrease costs (wages, transfer expenditure, etc).

The only thing that would seemingly act as a magic wand to our problems comes in the shape of a rather large sum of interest free donated to the cause by someone with a seeminglessly endless supply of the stuff - and even then we'll require some work to make ourselves "profitable".

 

[Wilko7]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41733.msg1169330#msg1169330 date=1283513658]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=41733.msg1169329#msg1169329 date=1283513455]
I've become confused with it all. As far as I understand it H&G got a loan to buy the shares and are now loaning the club money for the interest payments on that loan via an investment vehicle and then charging us interest on the interest, so both RBS and H&G are either being paid interest or are accruing interest? It's baffling and just seems like a scam. Or have I got it all wrong? I'm baffled. Somebody's gonna call in the asset at some point aren't they?
[/quote]

basically, just think about the money owed to RBS. the money owed to G&H doesn't come into effect until the club is actually sold.
[/quote]

Maybe administration isn't such a bad idea so that our two creditors get screwed.

 

[StevieM]

[quote author=Wilko link=topic=41733.msg1169366#msg1169366 date=1283517100]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41733.msg1169330#msg1169330 date=1283513658]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=41733.msg1169329#msg1169329 date=1283513455]
I've become confused with it all. As far as I understand it H&G got a loan to buy the shares and are now loaning the club money for the interest payments on that loan via an investment vehicle and then charging us interest on the interest, so both RBS and H&G are either being paid interest or are accruing interest? It's baffling and just seems like a scam. Or have I got it all wrong? I'm baffled. Somebody's gonna call in the asset at some point aren't they?
[/quote]

basically, just think about the money owed to RBS. the money owed to G&H doesn't come into effect until the club is actually sold.
[/quote]

Maybe administration isn't such a bad idea so that our two creditors get screwed.
[/quote]

How would you feel if the administrators decided to sell off Anfield to pay off the creditors?

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=41733.msg1169332#msg1169332 date=1283513958]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41733.msg1169330#msg1169330 date=1283513658]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=41733.msg1169329#msg1169329 date=1283513455]
I've become confused with it all. As far as I understand it H&G got a loan to buy the shares and are now loaning the club money for the interest payments on that loan via an investment vehicle and then charging us interest on the interest, so both RBS and H&G are either being paid interest or are accruing interest? It's baffling and just seems like a scam. Or have I got it all wrong? I'm baffled. Somebody's gonna call in the asset at some point aren't they?
[/quote]

basically, just think about the money owed to RBS. the money owed to G&H doesn't come into effect until the club is actually sold.
[/quote]

At the risk of seeming extra dull, does that mean that it's in H&G's interests to delay the sale then? The longer it takes to sell the more their investment vehicle is owed...
[/quote]

They're gambling that, if they can hang on long enough, they'll make a mint from the new TV deal.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=StevieM link=topic=41733.msg1169377#msg1169377 date=1283517785]
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=41733.msg1169366#msg1169366 date=1283517100]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41733.msg1169330#msg1169330 date=1283513658]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=41733.msg1169329#msg1169329 date=1283513455]
I've become confused with it all. As far as I understand it H&G got a loan to buy the shares and are now loaning the club money for the interest payments on that loan via an investment vehicle and then charging us interest on the interest, so both RBS and H&G are either being paid interest or are accruing interest? It's baffling and just seems like a scam. Or have I got it all wrong? I'm baffled. Somebody's gonna call in the asset at some point aren't they?
[/quote]

basically, just think about the money owed to RBS. the money owed to G&H doesn't come into effect until the club is actually sold.
[/quote]

Maybe administration isn't such a bad idea so that our two creditors get screwed.
[/quote]

How would you feel if the administrators decided to sell off Anfield to pay off the creditors?
[/quote]

Indeed. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if H and G ended up with naff all, but that's a far lower priority than getting the right outcome for the club even if it means those two get a payoff as well.