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Croatia v England - World Cup Semi Final

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My_Blood_Bleeds_Red said:
England's biggest weakness is the media circus that follows them everytime, everywhere - always whipping up it's fans (and players) into a frenzy into thinking they are the best thing since sliced bread.

Southgate's team were doing so well this time round, cruising below the radar, until the media started building the bandwagon again and crashed it for everyone else. Always.
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That's how it's been previously but not this time around.

The pundits are always going to talk up the players and the manager - what else are they going supposed to do - but for the most part I think people were just enjoying the ride.

There were zero expectations or hopes at the start of the tournament. No pressure from the media or anything like that.
 
I agree about the start of the tournament. Southgate's team were doing so well. But then after the trashing of Panama and qualifying for the knockout rounds, suddenly everyone (at least the international media) were raving on bout how good England were.

They weren't. They scored most of their goals from set pieces and were, to be honest, quite boring to watch. They did punch above their weight and the hopes of the country carried this team forward - I'm definitely on board with that. I'll tell you this though - I like this team more than many previous England teams as long as they dont get ahead of themselves and start thinking they are superstars before anything's won. If they can keep their feet on the ground and grow from this, I reckon they will compete well in the next Euro.
 
My_Blood_Bleeds_Red said:
I don't need logic to support whoever the heck I want.
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Steady on, skippy.
You said you always support the underdog and that's perfectly fine, but that doesn't mean that the favourites don't "deserve it".

If France totally dominate the game and put on a tremendous display and win, will they be undeserving of victory?
 
This lot don't compare well with the 1990 team. That team had a smarter and stronger and faster defence, were much more creative in midfield and offered a more varied goal threat up front.

Then again, that team was far more experienced than this one, so I guess Southgate could now start bringing in younger players, who actually have experience of winning tournaments, and the squad could be much better for the Euros.
 
The thing this team had over 1990 was it's consistent threat from free kicks and corners. They should have swallowed their pride, conserved energy, stayed in shape, and capitalised on Kane and Young regularly falling over like the pussies they are. Instead, probably under the constant cajoling of Henderson, they wanted to "show passion" and duly expended all their energy running up and down the pitch in open play. Stupidity. Their ego has wasted the kindest draw they've ever had in their history.
 
gkmacca said:
This lot don't compare well with the 1990 team. That team had a smarter and stronger and faster defence, were much more creative in midfield and offered a more varied goal threat up front.

Then again, that team was far more experienced than this one, so I guess Southgate could now start bringing in younger players, who actually have experience of winning tournaments, and the squad could be much better for the Euros.
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I'm not sure it was faster. Kyle Walker and Stones are very quick for CBs, and Kyle Walker is certainly at least on on par with his namesake Des.
Young is miles quicker than Pearce.

We certainly don't have the quality of Barnes, Beardsley, Waddle and Gascoigne et al to call on, though.; Sterling, Alli and Lingard are all rapid, but they just didn't have anywhere near enough quality and guile in possession, especially Sterling.
 
First decent team they met and they lost.
They needed to score when on top in the first half. As soon as Croatia scored it was plain that the ing ur lund boys lost their way and allowed Modric to start pulling the strings.
Anyway, bollocks to them.
 
Let me preface this by saying I'm not an England fan and I'm made up they're out, but did they really perform that well?

They beat:

Tunisia
Panama
Colombia
Sweden

Look at those teams. All teams you'd expect England to beat, even the underperforming England sides we've seen through the years.

The Tunisia game was won with an injury time winner. Both goals coming from set pieces.

They beat a dreadful Panama side with a host of penalties and set pieces. They also allowed Panama to score their first ever world cup goal.

They controlled the Colombia game, and should've been out of sight at half time, but they only scored one goal from a penalty, which, surprise surprise, was won during a corner. They dwindled and Colombia scored a late equaliser. Scraped through on the lottery of penalties. Colombia were missing their best player, by the way.

Beat an appalling Sweden side, scoring from a set piece, of course. Scored another to kill the game. Or was that the case? Pickford made 3 great saves and kept it at nil.

Against Croatia they were good in the first half, scoring a set piece goal, but were unable to score in open play. After the break, Croatia dominated, their superior technical ability, skill, tactics and intelligence all too evident. The first quality side they came up against. And they lost.

So, while everyone gets excited about the future of English football, it's important to look at the cold, hard facts. This is likely to be a high point, not a launching point. They're not going to get such a favourable draw again. They didn't actually play that well, hardly creating anything from open play. As soon as they came up against quality, they were beaten.

England are not good enough. This group of players still won't be good enough in 2, 4 or 8 years. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
 
Let’s not forget the 1990 team, which was seeded 6th, drew with Ireland and The Netherlands and beat Egypt 1-0 in the group stages. We then beat a really poor Belgium by the odd goal in the last minute of extra time before beating Cameron 3-2 in the quarters thanks to two penalties. In the tournament immediately before, ie the 1988 Euros, we were dumped on our arses after three straight defeats. In the tournament immediately after, the 1992 Euros, we also went out in the group stages have drawn two, lost one.

The story of England’s glorious Italia 1990 is one of the greatest fairytales in the history of the modern game and this team won’t have to achieve much in order to surpass it.
 
We lost the game and generally underperformed due to the system meaning our midfielders were overrun.

Im no fan of Henderson but even if his impressive work rate wasn't enough prior to his withdrawl.

Needed to revert to a back four and allow another body to be further upfield.
 
See i never knew any of that. I had been led by the media to believe that the England side of 1990 was a swaggering, swashbuckling juggernaut of a side that swatted away all that stood before it, only to be cruelly and unjustly robbed in the semi final.

Did they have 3rd and 4th place play offs then?
 
Halmeister said:
Let me preface this by saying I'm not an England fan and I'm made up they're out, but did they really perform that well?

They beat:

Tunisia
Panama
Colombia
Sweden

Look at those teams. All teams you'd expect England to beat, even the underperforming England sides we've seen through the years.

The Tunisia game was won with an injury time winner. Both goals coming from set pieces.

They beat a dreadful Panama side with a host of penalties and set pieces. They also allowed Panama to score their first ever world cup goal.

They controlled the Colombia game, and should've been out of sight at half time, but they only scored one goal from a penalty, which, surprise surprise, was won during a corner. They dwindled and Colombia scored a late equaliser. Scraped through on the lottery of penalties. Colombia were missing their best player, by the way.

Beat an appalling Sweden side, scoring from a set piece, of course. Scored another to kill the game. Or was that the case? Pickford made 3 great saves and kept it at nil.

Against Croatia they were good in the first half, scoring a set piece goal, but were unable to score in open play. After the break, Croatia dominated, their superior technical ability, skill, tactics and intelligence all too evident. The first quality side they came up against. And they lost.

So, while everyone gets excited about the future of English football, it's important to look at the cold, hard facts. This is likely to be a high point, not a launching point. They're not going to get such a favourable draw again. They didn't actually play that well, hardly creating anything from open play. As soon as they came up against quality, they were beaten.

England are not good enough. This group of players still won't be good enough in 2, 4 or 8 years. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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Thank you for saying exactly what I wanted to say but just can't be arsed to type it out on my dumb phone.
 
HC said:
We lost the game and generally underperformed due to the system meaning our midfielders were overrun.

Im no fan of Henderson but even if his impressive work rate wasn't enough prior to his withdrawl.

Needed to revert to a back four and allow another body to be further upfield.
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Midfielders ? plural ?

It looked like Henderson was the only one in midfield to me.

5 at the back, 1 in the middle, 1 up front with Alli, Sterling and Lingard wandering around as they saw fit.

Croatia's three in the middle put in a huge shift, that England team selection was never going to match that.
 
My_Blood_Bleeds_Red said:
Thank you for saying exactly what I wanted to say but just can't be arsed to type it out on my dumb phone.
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It's all confirmation bias, anyways. If you don't like the England team, you'll find ways to diminish any success, as Hal as done. Much like the biased fan always thinks his teams/players are the best, but the other way round.
 
Oliver Twist said:
Yes, they lost to Italy.

Congrats, Hal, by the way. You must be chuffed today.
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I am chuffed, actually.

See, I didn't know that and genuinely asked about the 3rd/4th place because they never mention it. Now i know why. No doubt if they beat Belgium it'll be all about 3rd place finish.

I did admit I'm not an England fan, but I think the praise has been way over the top for the reasons I listed.
 
OK, England lost their world cup semi-final game.

Everyone who is glad about it, please do revel in this moment of glory, and then we can lock this thread and stop talking about it. It's boring.
 
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