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Poll Centre back partnership

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Which do you trust?

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[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152353#msg1152353 date=1281547260]
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer hoofer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
[/quote]

there ya go
 
Carras passing is exposed more when he plays full back i.e. when he gets further up the pitch.
Though centre backs rarely venture that far forward thus are juded more on their defending and Carra is the best in our squad at this.
 
Agger can hit the alonso-esque pass. He can mishit passes as well and of course there's room for improvement. That doesn't change the fact that his range of passing is one of the most impressive for any cb's around today.

Anyways he has looked fit during the first 45 min against Germany tonight.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152381#msg1152381 date=1281549358]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41386.msg1152371#msg1152371 date=1281548572]
IF you could see a stat over their completion rate of passes over 30 yards Agger would win hands down.
[/quote]

Conveniently, you can't. Of course Carragher plays lots of short passes across the back. Like every other CB, like Agger at CB.

Regarding my being unreasonable:

1) I don't think Cole is the messiah, that isn't to say I don't think he's a good player, he's just not great, and I don't think he represents some massive improvement.
2) I expect Roy to do a decent job, but I don't expect him to do very well, because we haven't really improved the squad, we are having obvious issues making improvements due to having 0 funds, and our midfield, striker, and left back situation is still completely unresolved. I guess that's what happens when your club is in a total shambles. I'm sorry I don't see reason for joy in that.
3) My main point is that Carragher is not a bad passer as many make out, and that it's not a tremendously significant factor in choosing who to play at one position of CB. There are a ton of great CBs who don't show any great passing range, as it's not the focus of that skillset. I also think Agger's passing is overrated, and, for the record I really rate Agger, and love watching him play.

Is all that so crazy?


[/quote]

Far from it, but some of it is overstated.

1) IMO Cole at his best is better than merely "good". Stevie G's reaction to his signing says a lot about the significance of that signing in his (and hopefully other players') eyes.

2) I don't really think any of those positions are "completely unresolved". DM needs settling but Poulsen's in the works, we have Jovanovic as competition for N'Gog behind Torres in the pecking order and we have Aurelio and Kelly (with Agger and Carra further down the line if need be) for LB, pending further developments in the transfer market in both cases.

3) Agree wholeheartedly. I think you have Agger summarised to a T.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=41386.msg1152382#msg1152382 date=1281549375]
and I'd play Agger on the left till we find a decent LB
[/quote]

There's a good chance you might find one on the physio's table mate
 
Carra and skrtel

Agger's long passing really isn't that good. And his heading is woeful. He's still a decent defender obviously, but he also seems immune from the torres/aquilani/aurelio levels of injury related moaning and I'm not sure why.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=41386.msg1152428#msg1152428 date=1281555664]
Carra and skrtel

Agger's long passing really isn't that good. And his heading is woeful. He's still a decent defender obviously, but he also seems immune from the torres/aquilani/aurelio levels of injury related moaning and I'm not sure why.
[/quote]

The amount of fucking sitters he missed last year was astounding.
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=41386.msg1152422#msg1152422 date=1281555085]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=41386.msg1152382#msg1152382 date=1281549375]
and I'd play Agger on the left till we find a decent LB
[/quote]

There's a good chance you might find one on the physio's table mate
[/quote]
I know, I expect Agger to come back with an injury
With Kelly, Aurelio and the greek we have decent cover.
Im more worried about our strike force to be honest, Torres and Kuyt still not being fit...

GJ---------Carra-Skrtel-----Kelly

-------------Mascher
Kuyt-------Gerrard--------Cole

----------Jovanovic
----------------Torres
 
Watch Carragher at 0:07

[flash=400,400]http://www.youtube.com/v/DHm7hThHcjc[/flash]



HOOOOOOOOOOOOF
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152353#msg1152353 date=1281547260]
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
[/quote]

Come on Farky, that's just nonsense. Agger is nowhere near as good as KHL makes out in the passing area but he's streets ahead of Carra as is, quite frankly, the Greek. Agger has massive improvement to make if he's going to be considered a wonderful passer but still Carra is not a passer.

Having said all that I don't have real confidence in any of the partnerships but Carra and the Greek would be closest to what we need IMO. Neither Skrtel nor Agger have the prowess in the air that is needed to play with Carra and I still think Jamie is a little better defensively than either due mainly to him not having as many lapses as the other three.


I do have high hopes for Wilson in that he could be just what we need at the back but he's young and very unproven so we'll have to wait and see.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=41386.msg1152407#msg1152407 date=1281552078]
The Agger-Kyrgiakos partnership is Zlatan's choice right?
[/quote]

Nope, mines the Skrtel/Agger partnership 😉
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152353#msg1152353 date=1281547260]
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
[/quote]

Agger is clearly a better passer of the ball than Carragher in every department. You must be taking the piss if you rate Carra's passing more than Agger's
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=41386.msg1152634#msg1152634 date=1281569838]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152353#msg1152353 date=1281547260]
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
[/quote]

Come on Farky, that's just nonsense. Agger is nowhere near as good as KHL makes out in the passing area but he's streets ahead of Carra as is, quite frankly, the Greek. Agger has massive improvement to make if he's going to be considered a wonderful passer but still Carra is not a passer.

Having said all that I don't have real confidence in any of the partnerships but Carra and the Greek would be closest to what we need IMO. Neither Skrtel nor Agger have the prowess in the air that is needed to play with Carra and I still think Jamie is a little better defensively than either due mainly to him not having as many lapses as the other three.


I do have high hopes for Wilson in that he could be just what we need at the back but he's young and very unproven so we'll have to wait and see.
[/quote]

Carragher and the Greek are far FAR too slow a partnership against anyone other than the bruisers of the world. If you don't want to see hoofball, you can't play a defense that will sit miles away from the midfield due to the threat of pace.
 
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=41386.msg1152627#msg1152627 date=1281568223]
Watch Carragher at 0:07

[flash=400,400]http://www.youtube.com/v/DHm7hThHcjc[/flash]



HOOOOOOOOOOOOF
[/quote]

Argument from anecdotal youtube evidence? Fantastic. Carragher has a decent pass completion percentage, made up of mostly short, obvious passes, pretty much like every other CB in the world.

Shall I look for youtube videos of Carragher playing a lovely ball through to Torres? Actually I'm too lazy to do that.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=41386.msg1152634#msg1152634 date=1281569838]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152353#msg1152353 date=1281547260]
Someone tell me what I'm missing with this whole Carragher can't pass meme?

He's a better passer than all of the other CBs, which isn't saying a whole hell of a lot, and isn't as relevant as you all are making out.
[/quote]

Come on Farky, that's just nonsense. Agger is nowhere near as good as KHL makes out in the passing area but he's streets ahead of Carra as is, quite frankly, the Greek. Agger has massive improvement to make if he's going to be considered a wonderful passer but still Carra is not a passer.

Having said all that I don't have real confidence in any of the partnerships but Carra and the Greek would be closest to what we need IMO. Neither Skrtel nor Agger have the prowess in the air that is needed to play with Carra and I still think Jamie is a little better defensively than either due mainly to him not having as many lapses as the other three.


I do have high hopes for Wilson in that he could be just what we need at the back but he's young and very unproven so we'll have to wait and see.
[/quote]

I honestly don't think that Agger is a much better passer. Since we are in the business of using dumb youtube evidence, look at Modokays stupid video.

For me that doesn't demonstrate that Carragher is a poor passer, it demonstrates that he is very risk averse because he's not as comfortable as Agger on the ball, so he needs more space to pick a pass. He feels the pressure earlier, isn't comfortable turning and playing it square in that situation, so he does what any defender SHOULD do if they aren't comfortable, and "hoofs it" (to within a yard of Torres).

The fact is that Agger has been guilty, many times, of gifting possession from mishitting a pass last season and before. There's no doubt he's more comfortable on the ball, more comfortable going forward, more ambitious etc etc, and that makes him more useful at LB than Carragher is at RB, however Carragher doesn't give up the ball near as much playing at RB either, because he just isn't a poor passer of the ball.
 
Agree, and would add that when he played at LB (hence couldn't hoof the ball as easily because it was on his wrong foot more often) Carra displayed some neat distribution through midfield at times. "Doesn't" isn't necessarily the same as "can't", not in his case anyway.
 
Agree with some of what has been said as regards Agger's passing. He might be a more 'capable' passer but isn't necessarily a better passer than Carra from centre-back. Having said that, this logic becomes horribly fallacious when talking about midfielders. E.g. - Lucas and Alonso. Stats reveal that Lucas is almost as good as a passer as Alonso but only bellends from RAWK would actually believe it.

As regards the CB partnership, Carra and Agger for me, even though I'm not overly convinced by them. I miss Hyypia terribly and think we'll continue to be susceptible in the air until we find a Hyypia-like replacement for Carra.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152675#msg1152675 date=1281593999]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=41386.msg1152627#msg1152627 date=1281568223]
Watch Carragher at 0:07

[flash=400,400]http://www.youtube.com/v/DHm7hThHcjc[/flash]



HOOOOOOOOOOOOF
[/quote]

Argument from anecdotal youtube evidence? Fantastic. Carragher has a decent pass completion percentage, made up of mostly short, obvious passes, pretty much like every other CB in the world.

Shall I look for youtube videos of Carragher playing a lovely ball through to Torres? Actually I'm too lazy to do that.
[/quote]

Quite. I'm sure he 'hoofed it' a few times at the Nou Camp too, I don't remember too many people complaining about his brilliant, backs to the wall, gritty, super-effective display.

Defender in 'getting rid' against one of the best attacks in Europe SHOCKAAAA!
 
this season carra needs to prove last year was a blip and not age finally catching up with him. as for carra's passing, carra can definately pick out a pass but let's be honest here, he hoofs it as well, that is one of the main reasons I hope crouch isn't purchased because crouch will prove far too much of a temptation for sending it long.
 
Agger's passing is overrated
Carra's passing is underrated

Agger is a better passer and more comfortable on the ball

Carragher is a better defender

There
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41386.msg1152712#msg1152712 date=1281599525]
this season carra needs to prove last year was a blip and not age finally catching up with him. as for carra's passing, carra can definately pick out a pass but let's be honest here, he hoofs it as well, that is one of the main reasons I hope crouch isn't purchased because crouch will prove far too much of a temptation for sending it long.
[/quote]

The whole defence needs to prove it was a blip Neil, because they were all fucking shite.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41386.msg1152711#msg1152711 date=1281599454]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152675#msg1152675 date=1281593999]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=41386.msg1152627#msg1152627 date=1281568223]
Watch Carragher at 0:07

[flash=400,400]http://www.youtube.com/v/DHm7hThHcjc[/flash]



HOOOOOOOOOOOOF
[/quote]

Argument from anecdotal youtube evidence? Fantastic. Carragher has a decent pass completion percentage, made up of mostly short, obvious passes, pretty much like every other CB in the world.

Shall I look for youtube videos of Carragher playing a lovely ball through to Torres? Actually I'm too lazy to do that.
[/quote]

Quite. I'm sure he 'hoofed it' a few times at the Nou Camp too, I don't remember too many people complaining about his brilliant, backs to the wall, gritty, super-effective display.

Defender in 'getting rid' against one of the best attacks in Europe SHOCKAAAA!
[/quote]

why do people get upset at the suggestion that carra hits it long? he does, but that doesn't mean he isn't one of the best defenders in europe.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41386.msg1152714#msg1152714 date=1281599565]
Agger's passing is overrated
Carra's passing is underrated

Agger is a better passer and more comfortable on the ball

Carragher is a better defender

There
[/quote]

that's fair.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41386.msg1152716#msg1152716 date=1281599705]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41386.msg1152711#msg1152711 date=1281599454]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152675#msg1152675 date=1281593999]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=41386.msg1152627#msg1152627 date=1281568223]
Watch Carragher at 0:07

[flash=400,400]http://www.youtube.com/v/DHm7hThHcjc[/flash]



HOOOOOOOOOOOOF
[/quote]

Argument from anecdotal youtube evidence? Fantastic. Carragher has a decent pass completion percentage, made up of mostly short, obvious passes, pretty much like every other CB in the world.

Shall I look for youtube videos of Carragher playing a lovely ball through to Torres? Actually I'm too lazy to do that.
[/quote]

Quite. I'm sure he 'hoofed it' a few times at the Nou Camp too, I don't remember too many people complaining about his brilliant, backs to the wall, gritty, super-effective display.

Defender in 'getting rid' against one of the best attacks in Europe SHOCKAAAA!
[/quote]

why do people get upset at the suggestion that carra hits it long? he does, but that doesn't mean he isn't one of the best defenders in europe.
[/quote]

I don't get upset at the suggestion, I get upset at people using stupid examples against one of the best attacks in the game. So he hoofed it, so what?
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41386.msg1152715#msg1152715 date=1281599598]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41386.msg1152712#msg1152712 date=1281599525]
this season carra needs to prove last year was a blip and not age finally catching up with him. as for carra's passing, carra can definately pick out a pass but let's be honest here, he hoofs it as well, that is one of the main reasons I hope crouch isn't purchased because crouch will prove far too much of a temptation for sending it long.
[/quote]

The whole defence needs to prove it was a blip Neil, because they were all fucking shite.
[/quote]

absolutely 100% correct. there once was a time when 1-0 to liverpool meant game over. look at the CL game when babel scored in the 84 min, I'm sorry when you score in the 84 min you should be fucking winning that game.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41386.msg1152720#msg1152720 date=1281599816]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41386.msg1152716#msg1152716 date=1281599705]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41386.msg1152711#msg1152711 date=1281599454]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41386.msg1152675#msg1152675 date=1281593999]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=41386.msg1152627#msg1152627 date=1281568223]
Watch Carragher at 0:07

[flash=400,400]http://www.youtube.com/v/DHm7hThHcjc[/flash]



HOOOOOOOOOOOOF
[/quote]

Argument from anecdotal youtube evidence? Fantastic. Carragher has a decent pass completion percentage, made up of mostly short, obvious passes, pretty much like every other CB in the world.

Shall I look for youtube videos of Carragher playing a lovely ball through to Torres? Actually I'm too lazy to do that.
[/quote]

Quite. I'm sure he 'hoofed it' a few times at the Nou Camp too, I don't remember too many people complaining about his brilliant, backs to the wall, gritty, super-effective display.

Defender in 'getting rid' against one of the best attacks in Europe SHOCKAAAA!
[/quote]

why do people get upset at the suggestion that carra hits it long? he does, but that doesn't mean he isn't one of the best defenders in europe.
[/quote]

I don't get upset at the suggestion, I get upset at people using stupid examples against one of the best attacks in the game. So he hoofed it, so what?
[/quote]

ha ha true, better that then getting caught out and punished
 
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