Carroll vs Torres

[juniormember]

Now the stats for passes only show what happened in one game between those two, but nonetheless I'm encouraged after reading this (and shows what a lazy cunt Torres has been for us this season). We'll have two forwards with incredible workrate. Carroll's deceptively quick, is good with link-up play, can score goals with both feet and has one of the best heading abilities in the league. Suarez is like Garcia on steroids for me. Quick, tricky, scores goals, very very aggressive and has a winning mentality.
Anyway, here it is (apologies if it's been posted already):

Dalglish knowhow can help fill Torres void



Only Andy Carroll's thigh injury has denied Liverpool fans the chance to directly compare their new strike force with former hero Fernando Torres when the Reds travel to Chelsea on Sunday.

They will already be buoyed by Luis Suarez scoring on his debut against Stoke in midweek and will look forward to a partnership with Carroll some are likening to previous Liverpool forwards John Toshack and Kevin Keegan.

Nevertheless, the question remains whether the deal to bring in £35m Carroll and £22.7m Suarez for £50m Torres represents good business.

On the one hand you have a World Cup and European Championship winner who has scored 65 Premier League goals, while on the other you have a striker new to English football and a 22-year old who has scored 14 times in the top tier.

The fact that Torres appeared to be disillusioned at Anfield might settle the argument. As Reds manager Kenny Dalglish said on Monday: "The most important people at Liverpool Football Club are the ones who want to be here."

But what exactly will Liverpool be getting from their new front two?

As he demonstrated against Stoke on Wednesday, Suarez is a predator. The former Ajax captain scored 49 goals in 48 games in the Eredivisie last season and helped guide Uruguay to the World Cup semi-finals last summer, albeit in controversial circumstances.

For Carroll, whose price tag was the more surprising of the two, you get far more than an aerial threat, according to Match of the Day pundit and former Newcastle striker Alan Shearer.

"You get a leader of the line, a player who can hold the ball up and you get someone who defenders hate playing against," he said, with passing statistics showing Carroll was far more involved than Torres in the game between Newcastle and Liverpool in December.

"His link-up play is very good too. He can bring people into the game and he can run into the channels if you need him to. He's still very young and has got a lot to learn but if there is one guy who can teach him then it is Kenny Dalglish."

It was as Blackburn's manager in 1992 that Dalglish signed Shearer from Southampton for a then record fee of £3.3m. So there are echoes in the way the Scot has plucked Carroll from a mid-table team aiming for eventual title glory.

The good news for Liverpool fans is that following an initial season where Shearer scored 16 league goals, he then went on to notch more than 30 in each of the next three seasons for Rovers, which included a Premier League title in 1995.

Dalglish was also responsible for bringing Chris Sutton to Ewood Park, forming the famous SAS partnership that resulted in 49 league goals in that title-winning season.

"My whole game improved working under Dalglish," said Shearer. "Kenny helped my movement, he helped my positional play and he helped me get in the box more often to score more goals.

"As he did with me, he'll speak to Andy every single day so I'm convinced Andy's game will improve by working with Kenny. Kenny is not only a great man but a great manager in my opinion. He won the league with Liverpool and Blackburn because of his football knowhow and of course he played in a forward position too."

In signing Carroll, Dalglish may have already studied various partnerships at Newcastle where his link-ups with captain Kevin Nolan and Joey Barton have been a feature of their season.

Barton has set up five of Carroll's 11 league goals this term, making them the most prolific combination in the Premier League. The duo have 12 assists between them.

And as if to underline Carroll's presence in the air Newcastle are the fourth best team for scoring from set-pieces with 39% of their goals coming from that route.

"Newcastle have looked to put balls in the box at every opportunity, whether from set-plays or open play and that is one of the reasons why Joey Barton has looked so good this year," Shearer added.

"He knows that if you put the right ball in the box, eight or nine times out of 10 Carroll will get on the end of it. For a wide or midfield player that is great to know."

That notion will be welcomed by Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard and he will also be encouraged by the connection between Carroll and Nolan, which was similar to the one he had with Torres.

"Gerrard can time his runs knowing that Carroll can win a flick-on or bring him into the game with either his pace or his strength," stated Shearer.

"Andy has also partnered Shola Ameobi up front this season so he has played in different formations and I don't think it will be problem for him to play either way with Gerrard or Suarez."


There is an added value to Carroll's aerial ability. Where Torres rarely contributed to Liverpool's defending, the 6ft 3in striker can help clear danger at set-pieces, as the touch map below shows.

That has proved to be a hidden weapon for Newcastle this season, who have the second best record in the Premier League for conceding this way, only 15% of their total, while 24% of Liverpool's goals against have come in this fashion.

"I think Liverpool have moved very well after the loss of Torres," said Shearer. "He is a world-class player and has been for many years so you can understand why Chelsea want to pay that type of money for him.

"But in Carroll and Suarez they have got two guys who are goalscorers, they will be horrible to play against and I'm pretty sure they will fill the gap vacated by Torres."

The Spaniard's move to London has presented Chelsea boss Carlo Ancelotti with a completely different dilemma.

Where once debate raged on who was the better striker between Torres and Didier Drogba, they now find themselves in the same team. Add in Nicolas Anelka and Florent Malouda and there will be some serious juggling involved.

Ancelotti has tended to favour a front three of Drogba, Anelka and Malouda this season, but Torres' move could lead to him switching formations.

"Torres will be able to make the adjustment to the way Chelsea play," said Shearer. "I know he has been off-colour lately - and you suspect it was because he wanted to get away from Liverpool - but now he has left, it might put the spring back in his step. You might see the Torres that we saw a year or two ago.

"The obvious front two to me would be Drogba and Torres and that would be some forward line. The partnership has got a bit of everything: it has got raw pace, raw strength, it is good in the air, it is good at attacking balls, both have a good touch; so potentially those two have got the lot.

"If you look at the Liverpool pair, Carroll is young and inexperienced while Suarez is just coming into the country to learn the English game. But in Torres and Drogba they know it inside out already and you know what you are getting."

On that basis, it looks like Dalglish is the one taking the bigger gamble. Yet with his pedigree both as a player and manager it is hard to doubt his nous for weaving another prolific strike force capable of returning the good times to Anfield.

 

[Woland]

It's a good article but it has the feel of one of them ones that makes a case for Carrick being world footballer of the year etc. I can't wait to just watch and see what happens.

 

[juniormember]

[quote author=Krump link=topic=44067.msg1278888#msg1278888 date=1296926134]
It's a good article but it has the feel of one of them ones that makes a case for Carrick being world footballer of the year etc. I can't wait to just watch and see what happens.
[/quote]

Ha, yeah, but it's also stats that show his sheer workrate, which is very encouraging.

 

[RolandG]

I watched Carroll in a few games and he has it all with much to learn.

He and Suarez are gonna be the business.

 

[FoxForceFive]

Sunday Mirror claiming Carroll out for rest of season with injury in tomorrows paper

 

[ILD]

WTF?

Is this a wind up John?

 

[FoxForceFive]

Seems to be paper bollocks:

Injured since Dec 28th, SM reporting estimate of 2.5 months. More likely they said 10 weeks. And that was 6 weeks ago. End of season?

 

[Niall K]

If that's true we're gonna look like right muppets.

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=ILD link=topic=44067.msg1279129#msg1279129 date=1296948852]
WTF?

Is this a wind up John?
[/quote]

No, they are running that story.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Really? I did find it a bit odd how Kenny emphasised "we've signed him for 5 and a half years" about 2 million times this week.

 

[FoxForceFive]

Hahahahaha. This 'story' is such a load of shite it's untrue.

http://goo.gl/1f8za

 

[SaintGeorge67]

We must have known this if it were the case, which is fine it itself but why not buy someone else too then?

And these pictures of the medical on the website just showing him looking at Carroll's hands over and over again were pissing me off.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Kenny: "it will only be a few weeks", IN THE SAME ARTICLE!

So what the fuck have they printed that headline for then?

 

[FoxForceFive]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=44067.msg1279136#msg1279136 date=1296949138]
Kenny: "it will only be a few weeks", IN THE SAME ARTICLE!

So what the fuck have they printed that headline for then?
[/quote]

Cos they're cunts?

It's obvious, two & half months max from 31st Dec is NOT till the end of the season. Unless you add in hypothetical injuries that happen if we rush him back, like they have in the 'story'.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

I stand my concerns over the medical though... the doctor seems fascinated by his hands.... why?

 

[IanTheRed]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=44067.msg1279139#msg1279139 date=1296949304]
I stand my concerns over the medical though... the doctor seems fascinated by his hands.... why?
[/quote]

Because cupping his bollocks and making him cough wouldn't be suitable for the offal?

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Maybe not on the free bit, but what about those paying for it?

 

[Farkmaster]

Let's be absolutely clear about something. No matter what massive preponderance of evidence there is to the contrary, for instance, a random comparison of a whopping one game, I think it's a fairly comfortable proposition that not only is Torres superior to Carroll, they aren't even in the same stratosphere.

You can argue that Torres has lost a bit of pace, and wasn't arsed, and can extrapolate upwards for Carroll and downwards for Torres. There's still a massive gulf there. You can happily point out that we got two players for Torres, adding necessary strength in depth for nothing, and in the end it wasn't a choice to lose Torres. The team can be better than the sum of it's parts, and it wasn't really working so brilliantly for us or for Torres at the end.

But someone with half a season in the premiership vs a goal scoring phenomenon for us, and a regular on the best international team in the world? That's not helping soften the blow.

Anyway, let's just leave it. Fuck him.

 

[Woland]

Did we get a receipt?

 

[Atlas]

Is this gonna be Aquaman Mk2?

 

[monsieurdantes]

did you compare a kurgan to aquaman?

 

[Portly]

A crucial difference between Carroll and Torres is that Carroll wants to play for us, and Torres doesn't.

 

[King Binny]

Liverpool have needed a forward Carroll's type more than Torres's for more than 18 months. Results prove this. The shame is Carroll would have been an ideal partner for Torres instead of a replacement.

Liverpool have not possessed a target man since 2008. They haven't had anyone who could bully centre-halves since the 1970s.

Their need to continuously deploy someone in English football with physical presence and power was summed up to me by an impeccable Melwood source during a revealing tactical masterclass.

He explained how without such a player, it is impossible to succeed in the modern Premier League, particularly away from home.

He said: "If you look at the possession statistics when you are playing away, the difference when you have a player who can keep the ball, relieve the pressure on the defence and allow the midfield to play higher up the pitch is massive."

Who said this?

It was Rafa Benitez in the summer of 2005. He was justifying shocking the football world to bid for Southampton's Peter Crouch rather than indulge the return Michael Owen.

At that time, everyone beyond Benitez seemed to rate Owen higher and thought the Spanish boss was making a grave mistake. It wasn't as financially risky as Monday, but the £8m still raised more eyebrows than a Roger Moore lookalike competition.

With the unfancied target man, Liverpool earned 20 more points the following season, won the FA Cup and were a different team home and away.

They suffered tremendously after Crouch left. Tactically, Carroll is his replacement, not Torres's.

If Carroll transforms Liverpool's tally to similar levels and lifts silverware immediately, no one will be mentioning his transfer fee in a few years' time.