Brendan on our defence for next season

[jexykrodic]

Jesus christ, go look at that video compilation someone made of all the goals we conceded and tell me our defense was even competent last year.

By their very nature goals conceded are moments of incompetence.

I think we need to prioritize scoring more goals to turn those draws into wins.

It's what Manchester United did: conceded the same as us but scored 15 more.

We drew 13 games, they drew 5.

Of course, improvement in each area is the ideal but as a coach I'd be looking to improve my chances of winning by scoring more goals.

 

[Glen C]

By their very nature goals conceded are moments of incompetence.

I think we need to prioritize scoring more goals to turn those draws into wins.

It's what Manchester United did: conceded the same as us but scored 15 more.

We drew 13 games, they drew 5.

Of course, improvement in each area is the ideal but as a coach I'd be looking to improve my chances of winning by scoring more goals.

they may have conceeded the same amount, but in general their defence looks a lot more solid than ours. They didn't have the same glaring weaknesses as us. No point having a great attack if you always look like conceeding. Wenger tried it for years after losing that great defence and vieira and pettit and has suffered for it.

 

[Farkmaster]

By their very nature goals conceded are moments of incompetence.

Of course. Go watch the videos in that thread though. There's a pattern to them, and it doesn't involve teams using genius movement to bamboozle our defense.

Our defense couldn't deal with crosses, and it couldn't deal with set pieces. We had the defender who was meant to be first choice dropped and called out by our coach because of glaring individual errors, then the defender who wasn't dropped made them. The lynchpin of our side was a defender on the cusp of retirement, and that was not by design.

I can't fathom how you can go through last season and think, yea, that should do, we just need some more goals. Our defending was a fucking travesty at times, and to make matters worse, the nature of our weakness meant that teams of any quality had a fighting chance against us, with meager amounts of possession. We are bad at defending what is essentially the meat and potatos of the very league we play in.

 

[jexykrodic]

I don't think I said that our defending 'would do'. In fact I didn't.

At the risk of repeating myself I suggested prioritizing scoring more goals would improve our chances of winning more games and ideally we improve each area.

I gave, what I think; is a valid comparison with Manchester United. They scored more than us, conceded the same amount and yet won many more games.

I don't think it's so surprising to conclude that scoring more goals is key and to my mind a priority.

Obviously an improving defence is needed, we've signed a good goalkeeper, an experienced CB and are rumoured to be looking for other defenders. I don't think management has been asleep on the task which I'm sure they recognize needs recruitment and lots of training ground practice.

 

[StevieM]

We get exposed because Rodgers wants the full backs to push on and give the attack width because the attacking midfielders often tend to come inside.

That's why the 2 central midfielders are so important, because they have to be disciplined and sit deep to avoid counter attacks, particularly when all of our centre backs are slow and in Aggers case has a habit of wandering iup the pitch.

That's why Lucas is important - for all his faults, he is disciplined and will hold his position. It makes him look shit because he's not bursting forward scoring goals, but he does a lot of the dirty jobs no-one else does.

Gerrard has been mush better at holding, but we've seen his attacking contribution suffer - and people moan that he's not having a good season, etc - it's just that his role has changed and he has to operate deeper. Gerrard has definitely improved in this type of role, but I do miss him in the attacking line.

 

[mark1975]

By their very nature goals conceded are moments of incompetence.

I think we need to prioritize scoring more goals to turn those draws into wins.

It's what Manchester United did: conceded the same as us but scored 15 more.

We drew 13 games, they drew 5.

Of course, improvement in each area is the ideal but as a coach I'd be looking to improve my chances of winning by scoring more goals.

I think it's twofold Jexy, well threefold really. We started to get the possession football bang on towards the end of the season, took pressure off the defense, got the midfield balance a bit better and scored more. But we still lack two commanding players at centre back and in the middle of the park. At one point we had a spine of Reina, Hyypia, Mascherano and Torres, look at what we have now by comparison, we need that assurance and ability to boss those areas of the pitch. Our possession play when it works is great, what's been apparent throughout the last couple of years is that when we don't have the ball we look vulnerable. When the opposition hit us on the break, I hold my breath because we get carved open far too easily. We've had reasonable stats over the last couple of years, but early form has been counterbalanced by having nothing to play for, getting used to tactics, I'd say it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. We clearly still have some of the good defensive ideals drummed into us that we had under Rafa and Ged (it's hard to get away from 10 years of organised play), but the more adventurous players we add (as we saw with Johnson), the more we sacrifice that bit of stability and solid play. Do we have it in us to still put in a backs-to-the-wall job away at a difficult European side? Probably not, which isn't an issue in the short term, but it would help us when playing a few of the big boys, or when going to places like Stoke.

 

[keniget]

That's why Lucas is important - for all his faults, he is disciplined and will hold his position. It makes him look shit because he's not bursting forward scoring goals, but he does a lot of the dirty jobs no-one else does.

What makes him look shit is the fact that teams have generally been able to waltz through our midfield with relative ease. No one gives a fuck bar the odd couple who think every player should score goals that he doesn't contribute much to the attack.

If he did the "dirty jobs no-one else does" better, he wouldn't be getting so much stick.

 

[Glen C]

What makes him look shit is the fact that teams have generally been able to waltz through our midfield with relative ease. No one gives a fuck bar the odd couple who think every player should score goals that he doesn't contribute much to the attack.

If he did the "dirty jobs no-one else does" better, he wouldn't be getting so much stick.

Exactly. Mascherano didn't score many goals but it didn't matter because his main contribution was bossing the midfield and he did it WELL.

 

[dmishra]

How was Toure yesterday?

Didn't see the game but the idea of Toure and Agger as the first-choice partnership depresses me. It'll be the worst first-choice CB partnership we'll have put out since 1999.

It doesn't bode well.

 

[Rafiagra]

Not sure I agree with that.

Toure has been a quality defender for years now and bring a lot of invaluable experience, not only of the PL but of winning trophies especially the league.

He's evidently settled in well which is a bonus.

Agger is a quality player and perfectly suited to playing out from the back.

I think they make a pretty decent combo but we need more depth. Coates just doesn't fit and Skrtel is on borrowed time.

 

[rurikbird]

Toure has looked good so far.

 

[Ryan]

Toure has looked good so far.

I'm not reading too much into that.

Over the course of a long season his lack of pace and ageing body will lead to problems. I expect him to look ok for the first couple of months against average opposition.

Come midway through the year and against top class players, he'll get found out.

We need better, much better.

 

[ILD]

I still confident we are buying a centre half to play alongside Agger. I'm going to wait it out.

 

[Whirly]

Kolo may be fat and old, but Agger is made of glass, and Skrtel switches off too frequently.

 

[nealmac]

Kolo may be fat and old, but Agger is made of glass, and Skrtel switches off too frequently.

.....and Coates is shit.

Which is why we still need another CB.