Berbatov (Berbacunt)

[franklyfrank]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=39805.msg1087424#msg1087424 date=1271169812]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39805.msg1087419#msg1087419 date=1271169603]
Berbatov's been made a scapegoat by United fans and unfairly so imo.

Ok he hasn't been great and is a lazy git at times but you can't blame it all on one man ffs.
I think he's averaged a goal every 3 games or something, not that bad.

United's problem this season is thier over-reliance on Rooney, without him they look distinctly average.
[/quote]

...which wouldn't be a problem at all if Berbatov were up to the job. All the skill in the world (and Berbatov has plenty) is no use if its owner's going to please himself whether or not to bother using it.
[/quote]

Fair enough but all i'm saying is they need more than Berbatov to create and score them goals. I believe the opposition is their second highest scorers in the league, says it all really.

In season's goal by they'd have got 10-15 goals from Scholes and Giggs, not anymore. Carrick, Fletcher and Nani are far from prolific either.

 

[manwithnoname]

I don't know if you are taking a hard stance just for the sake of it, but calling him "WANK" is so far from the truth, i'm going to have to just assume you are purposely being a douchebag.

He has got the best touch in Premiership-bar none. He is a sublime footballer, and on his day can be nigh on unplayable. We have suffered in his hands when Hyypia and Carra were such a solid partnership.

"douchebag"

Where the fuck are you from?
And what year is it?

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39805.msg1087431#msg1087431 date=1271170270]
"douchebag"

Where the fuck are you from?
And what year is it?
[/quote]

Madagascar

 

[LarryHagman]

Berbatov's a good player but I don't want us near him. He go to Spain/Italy to free up some funds for a spend in the summer.

 

[Peatcheo]

I hope they get Benzema, he is shite.

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39805.msg1087583#msg1087583 date=1271200906]
I hope they get Benzema, he is shite.
[/quote]

I don't think Benzema is shite but I'd prefer the mancs to buy Silva than keep Berbatov.


He'd never work here given his playing style which is so laid back it looks like he's drifted off to sleep at times. However, as has already been said, he's got more attacking talent than most of our attackers combined and has proven he can score goals in this league.

I also suspect he'd probably fit well with Torres but, again, I don't think Liverpool is the right club for him and Rafa could not be further from the right manager for him. I hope he goes for very little and I certainly hope that it doesn't allow Ferguson to get hold of Benzema.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39805.msg1087583#msg1087583 date=1271200906]
I hope they get Benzema, he is shite.
[/quote]

I wouldn't be quite so confident. Real Madrid is a graveyard for promising young players. Things could be very different under Ferguson.

 

[Richey]

Its not worth worrying about too much as Fergie wouldn't sell anyone to us. Ever.

In theory though I'd take him. I think those who are saying no might have momentarily forgotten how horrible our attacking options (bar the obvious) are

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39805.msg1087595#msg1087595 date=1271202918]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39805.msg1087583#msg1087583 date=1271200906]
I hope they get Benzema, he is shite.
[/quote]

I wouldn't be quite so confident. Real Madrid is a graveyard for promising young players. Things could be very different under Ferguson.
[/quote]


higuain?

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=39805.msg1087621#msg1087621 date=1271230536]
Its not worth worrying about too much as Fergie wouldn't sell anyone to us. Ever.

In theory though I'd take him. I think those who are saying no might have momentarily forgotten how horrible our attacking options (bar the obvious) are
[/quote]

No, we haven't. Those who simply call him "shite" are way off the mark, but he wouldn't be suited here.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39805.msg1087583#msg1087583 date=1271200906]
I hope they get Benzema, he is shite.
[/quote]

No, he's lazy and moody but immensely talented. The danger is that Ferguson could be the right manager to make him show that talent on a consistent basis. I really really hope they don't get him.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Anyone know anything about this Mexican chap they've signed?

 

[the count]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39805.msg1087792#msg1087792 date=1271252151]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39805.msg1087583#msg1087583 date=1271200906]
I hope they get Benzema, he is shite.
[/quote]

No, he's lazy and moody but immensely talented. The danger is that Ferguson could be the right manager to make him show that talent on a consistent basis. I really really hope they don't get him.
[/quote]

Same criticism could easily be levelled at Berbatov as well Bunny, and so far that hasn't worked out too well.
That said, I wouldn't like to see Benzema going to Man U as I would fear the worst.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=the count link=topic=39805.msg1087852#msg1087852 date=1271257041]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39805.msg1087792#msg1087792 date=1271252151]
[quote author=Peatcheo link=topic=39805.msg1087583#msg1087583 date=1271200906]
I hope they get Benzema, he is shite.
[/quote]

No, he's lazy and moody but immensely talented. The danger is that Ferguson could be the right manager to make him show that talent on a consistent basis. I really really hope they don't get him.
[/quote]

Same criticism could easily be levelled at Berbatov as well Bunny, and so far that hasn't worked out too well.
That said, I wouldn't like to see Benzema going to Man U as I would fear the worst.
[/quote]

Yup.

Benzema's got time on his side and Fergie's got enough left in him to exploit Benzema's undoubted potential.

 

[Richey]

Berbatov wouldn't be suited to us under Benitez granted but then I'm hoping he goes too

 

[Ryan]

Can you imagine if Rafa'd bought Berbatov for 30M and got the same return Utd have got out of him?

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39805.msg1088147#msg1088147 date=1271305732]
Can you imagine if Rafa'd bought Berbatov for 30M and got the same return Utd have got out of him?
[/quote]

That's very true - there'd be trouble for sure. I'm not sure it would seem worse than the scenario with Aquilani cause we all knew Berbatov was quality but lazy. Still, if Rafa had done so it would have been worse than the Keane affair.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=39805.msg1088150#msg1088150 date=1271305978]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39805.msg1088147#msg1088147 date=1271305732]
Can you imagine if Rafa'd bought Berbatov for 30M and got the same return Utd have got out of him?
[/quote]

That's very true - there'd be trouble for sure. I'm not sure it would seem worse than the scenario with Aquilani cause we all knew Berbatov was quality but lazy. Still, if Rafa had done so it would have been worse than the Keane affair.
[/quote]

For every Aquilani and Keane though Wiz, there's a Berbatov, Anderson, Hargreaves, Nani, and two Serbians to come back with.

 

[LarryHagman]

Ry, if Benitez wiped his arse on your pillow cases you'd argue that he didn't have the funds for decent bog roll.

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39805.msg1088151#msg1088151 date=1271306099]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=39805.msg1088150#msg1088150 date=1271305978]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39805.msg1088147#msg1088147 date=1271305732]
Can you imagine if Rafa'd bought Berbatov for 30M and got the same return Utd have got out of him?
[/quote]

That's very true - there'd be trouble for sure. I'm not sure it would seem worse than the scenario with Aquilani cause we all knew Berbatov was quality but lazy. Still, if Rafa had done so it would have been worse than the Keane affair.
[/quote]

For every Aquilani and Keane though Wiz, there's a Berbatov, Anderson, Hargreaves, Nani, and two Serbians to come back with.
[/quote]

I think the jury is out on Anderson at this point and the verdict on Nani is becoming more favourable by the week. But I do agree with the point - Ferguson has made larger errors than Rafa in terms of price etc. IMO it's a two edged sword though - Ferguson has taken bigger risks with his transfers over the last 5 or 6 years and the result has been a few league titles and a CL win. Rafa is just far more cautious - you can argue he hasn't had the funds but he's still tried to spread his money further than Ferguson has ever attempted. You can see the argument from both sides and they've both clearly got merit but only one has been successful. For that reason alone I'd like to see Rafa take the risk - it can't go worse than it has this season.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39805.msg1088153#msg1088153 date=1271306465]

Ry, if Benitez wiped his arse on your pillow cases you'd argue that he didn't have the funds for decent bog roll.


[/quote]

I'd probably question the positioning of the shitsmear and how it compared to tactical shitsemars of bygone era's actually.

I'm a fan of his, and think the treatment he gets on here is mostly ignorant drivel. But I'm only a fan for so long mate, if he/we don't improve significantly next season, then I'll have had enough.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=39805.msg1088154#msg1088154 date=1271306638]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39805.msg1088151#msg1088151 date=1271306099]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=39805.msg1088150#msg1088150 date=1271305978]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39805.msg1088147#msg1088147 date=1271305732]
Can you imagine if Rafa'd bought Berbatov for 30M and got the same return Utd have got out of him?
[/quote]

That's very true - there'd be trouble for sure. I'm not sure it would seem worse than the scenario with Aquilani cause we all knew Berbatov was quality but lazy. Still, if Rafa had done so it would have been worse than the Keane affair.
[/quote]

For every Aquilani and Keane though Wiz, there's a Berbatov, Anderson, Hargreaves, Nani, and two Serbians to come back with.
[/quote]

I think the jury is out on Anderson at this point and the verdict on Nani is becoming more favourable by the week. But I do agree with the point - Ferguson has made larger errors than Rafa in terms of price etc. IMO it's a two edged sword though - Ferguson has taken bigger risks with his transfers over the last 5 or 6 years and the result has been a few league titles and a CL win. Rafa is just far more cautious - you can argue he hasn't had the funds but he's still tried to spread his money further than Ferguson has ever attempted. You can see the argument from both sides and they've both clearly got merit but only one has been successful. For that reason alone I'd like to see Rafa take the risk - it can't go worse than it has this season.
[/quote]

Ferguson's a better Manager is the long and short of it Wiz.

But having Scholes, Neville, Giggs, Fletcher, etc around for so long has meant that he's been able to take an expensive risk in the transfer market. Sometimes they pay off - Rooney, Rio, RVN. Sometimes they don't - Veron, Anderson, Nani (he cost 18M mate, and has done zero up until 3 or 4 months ago), Hargreaves, Berbatov, etc.

Rafa's signings in that price bracket are judged differently cos he doesn't have the same strength in depth to cover them if they go pear-shaped, and cos we make fewer of them. I can count 4 top price bracket ones (Keane, Torres, Masher, Aqui) - 50/50 record. Ferguson's had about 10 of them, and his success rate is no better really.

Man City too.

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39805.msg1088155#msg1088155 date=1271306785]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39805.msg1088153#msg1088153 date=1271306465]

Ry, if Benitez wiped his arse on your pillow cases you'd argue that he didn't have the funds for decent bog roll.


[/quote]

I'd probably question the positioning of the shitsmear and how it compared to tactical shitsemars of bygone era's actually.

I'm a fan of his, and think the treatment he gets on here is mostly ignorant drivel. But I'm only a fan for so long mate, if he/we don't improve significantly next season, then I'll have had enough.
[/quote]

The thing about it, Ryan, is that you've only joined the RCDNW brigade more recently compared to others like Rafa4PM etc. Whereas they were grounding that approach in Istanbul, the FA cup and Athens you've seemingly only joined during last season. It's obviously your choice and I'm sure you've got your reasons but the timing is curious to say the least.

 

[Ryan]

Just as an extension of that above:

Joleon Lescott and Roque Santa Cruz both cost more than we've ever spent on a player, ever.

Two subsitutes.

That's what we're competing against. People ignore this though, and talk about Andrea Dossena.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=39805.msg1088159#msg1088159 date=1271307191]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39805.msg1088155#msg1088155 date=1271306785]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39805.msg1088153#msg1088153 date=1271306465]

Ry, if Benitez wiped his arse on your pillow cases you'd argue that he didn't have the funds for decent bog roll.


[/quote]

I'd probably question the positioning of the shitsmear and how it compared to tactical shitsemars of bygone era's actually.

I'm a fan of his, and think the treatment he gets on here is mostly ignorant drivel. But I'm only a fan for so long mate, if he/we don't improve significantly next season, then I'll have had enough.
[/quote]

The thing about it, Ryan, is that you've only joined the RCDNW brigade more recently compared to others like Rafa4PM etc. Whereas they were grounding that approach in Istanbul, the FA cup and Athens you've seemingly only joined during last season. It's obviously your choice and I'm sure you've got your reasons but the timing is curious to say the least.
[/quote]

He CDW mate. I've pointed out as such in recent post-match threads, and discussions about his transfer record. Not sure why this has got lost.

I hate the abuse that's been levelled his way this season though, by plenty on this site. And it's led to claims that he's a "shit manager" consistently. Which I've railed against.

I don't think he's the be all and end all, I guess I'm just trying to offer a bit of perspective.

 

[TheBunnyman]

Ferguson's transfer record has been VERY patchy recently. Pretty bad, even, with the obvious exceptions of Rooney, Ronaldo and Vidic. Which is why the United squad is so much weaker than it was, say, ten years ago.

But the fact is they keep winning leagues and cups. Why? Because, transfer errors aside, Ferguson is the best football manager in the world. Makes me feel sick to say it, but it's true.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39805.msg1088378#msg1088378 date=1271342392]
Ferguson's transfer record has been VERY patchy recently. Pretty bad, even, with the obvious exceptions of Rooney, Ronaldo and Vidic. Which is why the United squad is so much weaker than it was, say, ten years ago.

But the fact is they keep winning leagues and cups. Why? Because, transfer errors aside, Ferguson is the best football manager in the world. Makes me feel sick to say it, but it's true.
[/quote]

Indeed so Bunny, there is no point in hiding from the truth, and why is that?
He keeps it simple, does not tinker , goes at teams they know they can turn over and usually do so.
They get players into the box and have pace and skill, when someone gets the ball in the box, they don't have to be that clever with it as he knows there will be four players in there.
He kicks people in the arse when they need it and pats people on the back when they have done well.


regards

 

[Judge Jules]

That's all part of it, but there's also the mental grip he's established over his players and (most) opposition teams, not to mention the football authorities. The guy hasn't been a student of Shanks' methods for nothing.