Surely that depends on what the plans are for other new recruits.
Benteke - BOOOOOO the puns
- Thread starter mxtravs
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So you have no opinion on how he'll be integrated? And yet think it's a great signing. How does that follow?
I'm not a massive fan of this, because it's clear what Rodgers wants from his forwards, despite the tika-taka bollocks, is mobile attackers in a front three who can interchange position comfortably.
I think the point people are making is that maybe we *have* to adopt a different approach. We didn't always play a front three with Suarez anyway, we played the diamond with both Sturridge and Suarez in a front two, so he has adopted different approaches with fit available strikers.
We've never really played a proper front 3 under Rodgers, have we? It's always been a 1 or a 2, I thought.
Who knows what his plan is. I'm not convinced he's got one. He certainly didn't for this season.
I think he gives us options. He could play as a lone striker with combinations of Coutinho, Lallana, Sterling or Ibe behind him. I can also see him in a front two with Sturridge the more mobile of the two. Whichever way you cut it the options presented by Sturridge, Benteke, Origi and AN Other (Ings?) would be much more potent than we've seen this season.
I'm assuming we won't make the Balotelli mistake again and our interest in Benteke will be seen in the wider context of who else is likely to be in the first team squad next season and what the manager's preferred style (or styles) might be.
I think a 442 with Sturridge and Benteke has the makings of a great attack, and Ings and Origi a good backup. But that has to be the plan, and other signings have to back it up. My worry is that it won't be like that.
Yeah I wouldn't disagree with that. The test for the owners is whether they can put in place a structure that enables the manager to plan acquisitions properly rather than just impose random names on him. It's taken a few posts but I think there's much we agree on here!
I'd still have misgivings about deliberately planning a two man strike force. Is this really the best way forward?
My gut says this is a wrong turn, even if it has been properly planned.
My gut says this is a wrong turn, even if it has been properly planned.
I think Benteke is stylistically similar to Drogba and Costa, who've both thrived in a 4-2-3-1. Don't Villa play a similar formation with Weimann and Agbonlahor flanking Benteke?
That sort of system works well when you have a robust defence and a physical midfield capable of soaking pressure, and at the same time keeping possession when necessary. Basically the opposite of what we have presently.
Rafa and Mourinho would've loved to get hold of a striker like Benteke whose main skill is leading the line and focusing simply on bullying defenders and scoring.
I'm very wary of this because whatever Rodgers is, he can't set us to play the way Mourinho and Rafa do (we don't even have the personnel).
Also, I'm not sure what this constant reference to last year's 'counter-attacking' style was. That seems to imply that we mostly sat back and hit on the break. This is simply not true. We were excellent on the break (as all teams with pacy, skilful players are) and scored often on the counter, but we didn't sit back as most counter-attacking teams do (such as Mourinho's or Rafa's). I'd say we enjoyed a good share of possession in the final third (not in the dominating possession in the Guardiola Barca sense), but because our principal attacking players Suarez and Sturridge were excellent at keeping the ball.
To think that Benteke will help replicate that style is misplaced. He doesn't have the technical ability. For that reason, I'm not even sure if he can play alongside Sturridge.
I'd also worry about his impact on our AMs (Coutinho, Sterling, Markovic and Lallana) who are very much players whose end product depends on the kind of players you surround them with. They aren't the sort like Hazard or Bale who produce individually.
That sort of system works well when you have a robust defence and a physical midfield capable of soaking pressure, and at the same time keeping possession when necessary. Basically the opposite of what we have presently.
Rafa and Mourinho would've loved to get hold of a striker like Benteke whose main skill is leading the line and focusing simply on bullying defenders and scoring.
I'm very wary of this because whatever Rodgers is, he can't set us to play the way Mourinho and Rafa do (we don't even have the personnel).
Also, I'm not sure what this constant reference to last year's 'counter-attacking' style was. That seems to imply that we mostly sat back and hit on the break. This is simply not true. We were excellent on the break (as all teams with pacy, skilful players are) and scored often on the counter, but we didn't sit back as most counter-attacking teams do (such as Mourinho's or Rafa's). I'd say we enjoyed a good share of possession in the final third (not in the dominating possession in the Guardiola Barca sense), but because our principal attacking players Suarez and Sturridge were excellent at keeping the ball.
To think that Benteke will help replicate that style is misplaced. He doesn't have the technical ability. For that reason, I'm not even sure if he can play alongside Sturridge.
I'd also worry about his impact on our AMs (Coutinho, Sterling, Markovic and Lallana) who are very much players whose end product depends on the kind of players you surround them with. They aren't the sort like Hazard or Bale who produce individually.
Pretty much Mish, you have to wager that if we carry on the way we did this season (and much of last really), he'd get isolated, without the patient possession based build up to bring him into play.
He does have good technical ability though, particularly inside the box, his ability to set himself with a great first touch is what sets him apart from a few similar players.
If we could support him with two flankers who are much more consistent in terms of end product and making the right decisions in the build up, then it can work.
He does have good technical ability though, particularly inside the box, his ability to set himself with a great first touch is what sets him apart from a few similar players.
If we could support him with two flankers who are much more consistent in terms of end product and making the right decisions in the build up, then it can work.
That's the point though - we don't have those players.
And we've invested heavily in our young AMs - Coutinho, Sterling, Markovic, Lallana and Ibe. All of them are actually very good players, and we saw during our decent run in the middle of the season that they're capable of producing some really beautiful football. But they're not going to turn into what they're not. They're, if I may use a basketball analogy, pass-first and not shoot-first players. That's just hard-wired into them - they're not suddenly going to become great isolation players (Ibe might perhaps, but can't really rely on him atm).
They're akin to the likes of Silva and Nasri or Pires and Ljungberg - silky players, who're capable of producing scintillating football when teamed with pacy, skilful strikers - Aguero, Henry and Suarez.
That's the kind of striker we need to find. Not abandon our entire investment in our AMs and force on them a striker who doesn't mesh with them at all. It's the kind of amateur and thoughtless decisions we've been making over and over and over again in the transfer market.
And it's not like that player is impossible to find - if we're willing to spend 20-30 million on Benteke, that money should fetch Lacazette, will certainly fetch Aubameyang, and might even tempt Inter to part with Icardi. Those are the sort of players who I can see fitting our teams like a glove.
Absolute tour de force couple of posts from dmishra. Puts all my doubts and gut feelings into credible analysis, particularly wrt our creative midfield.
Konoplyanka is worth a punt for free.
I know...and on a football forum as well. Mental as anything.
Tony Barrett made the point the other day that it's fucking weird and slightly worrying that our main striking target last year was Alexis Sanchez and now this summer its Christian Benteke - who are completely different in terms of attributes. Benteke is a good player and his goalscoring rate for Villa is impressive but like Dmishra says, he would seem to jar with the attacking midfielders we have. I suspect this signing will not go well.
Does he even have a very impressive goalscoring record?
He had one good goalscoring season in the league - 2012-13, when he scored 19. Last season he scored 10 and this season he scored 13. That's actually really average.
49 goals in all competitions in 3 seasons. 42 goals in the PL. So that's about 14-16 goals a season. Only we could be moronic enough to want to pay 20-30 million for that.
Then there's the matter of his technique. Spent some time looking at his clips - Mark is right - he's got one very good skill - creating space for a shot with his first touch - it's a bit like Hasselbaink. But that's pretty much it; obviously, he's got loads of power and decent pace to boot, but his overall technical ability is quite limited. Especially back to goal.
Have a look at these clips. Takes more than one touch to control the ball almost every single time he receives the ball back to goal. Loads of heavy touches, misplaced passes. Ugh. I do not want this guy to be the centrepiece of our attack.
He had one good goalscoring season in the league - 2012-13, when he scored 19. Last season he scored 10 and this season he scored 13. That's actually really average.
49 goals in all competitions in 3 seasons. 42 goals in the PL. So that's about 14-16 goals a season. Only we could be moronic enough to want to pay 20-30 million for that.
Then there's the matter of his technique. Spent some time looking at his clips - Mark is right - he's got one very good skill - creating space for a shot with his first touch - it's a bit like Hasselbaink. But that's pretty much it; obviously, he's got loads of power and decent pace to boot, but his overall technical ability is quite limited. Especially back to goal.
Have a look at these clips. Takes more than one touch to control the ball almost every single time he receives the ball back to goal. Loads of heavy touches, misplaced passes. Ugh. I do not want this guy to be the centrepiece of our attack.
He does in the context of a fairly uninspiring Aston Villa side - 42 goes in the best part of 90 games is 1 in 2. And, like Woland says, he was out injured for ages.
I don't want us to sign Benteke, I don't think he fits. I think we need a striker who is going to work his bollocks off, force mistakes from defenders and is going to scrap regardless of whether we're in good form or shite form.
I'd agree. I probably only like the Prozone video because it supports something I was arguing with mates at the beginning of the season...that someone like Tevez represented our best available next option once Suarez had departed, but that's still the direction I think we should be moving in.
I'm not convinced signing Benteke is consistent with our focus on AMs - so signing him would either mark a change in Rodgers transfer policy (not necessarily a bad thing, but it better not stop there... defenders who can defend and higher quality backroom staff better be next on the fucking list), or represent knee-jerk panic stations by him. Per the post above, being in the market for Sanchez last season and Benteke this year wouldnt fill you with confidence that there was a coherent (albeit obviously misfiring) plan.
