Arsenal post-match

[FoxForceFive]

Firmino is our biggest problem this season imo.

He's nowhere near peak physical form, presumably due to the world cup, & almost every team we've played have doubled up on him, even at the expense of make & Salah, as its clear if he doesn't play well the other two struggle to find form.

As such, he's dropping further & further back & is becoming almost ineffectual.

Of course we have issues settling in Fabinho, but if the front three are on song we can live it with it.

 

[Hansern]

Fabinho was alright, but this was a match to soon for him tempo wise and it showed.
Only his 3rd game for us and I dont think he was the isolated problem but rather the midfield as a whole.
Shame Henderson wasnt fit.

Trent struggled and Gini wasnt at his best either. We gave the ball away to easily.

Rest Firmino for Tuesdays game.

 

[doctor_mac]

That was Trent's worst game since the Palace game where Zaha tortured him. He lost the ball in bad positions quite a few times, and then when he was tiring in the second half the tricksy and fast Iwobi came on to add to his woes. Emery made exactly the right substitution to keep the initiative and Klopp should have reacted immediately. I couldn't believe that Klopp rather later took Salah off for to bring Matip on. It should have been Trent with Gomez moving across, because Trent looked punch drunk by that stage, and Salah still might have won us the game as they only had 2 players at the back by that stage. Just not Trent's day, and again, I think he was let down somewhat by Klopp.

 

[keniget]

It feels like the "high intensity press isn't sustainable" argument has become overused. It is hard to sustain over the course of a season but it doesn't mean that you can't use it when it makes sense to.

Judging by the pre-match thread, most expected us to go high energy and blitz them. We didn't... which begs the question, why?

It was a big game and a win would've been significant. Had it have been a crunch match against City, would the team have found the energy levels and mentality required?

We've looked a little off all season now and I'm increasingly struggling with the notion that it's all by design as part of a new sustainable style of play.

 

[doctor_mac]

It feels like the "high intensity press isn't sustainable" argument has become overused. It is hard to sustain over the course of a season but it doesn't mean that you can't use it when it makes sense to.

Judging by the pre-match thread, most expected us to go high energy and blitz them. We didn't... which begs the question, why?

It was a big game and a win would've been significant. Had it have been a crunch match against City, would the team have found the energy levels and mentality required?

We've looked a little off all season now and I'm increasingly struggling with the notion that it's all by design as part of a new sustainable style of play.

Klopp has definitely said this season that he doesn't want Liverpool to be top of the running charts, and about being cleverer about when to play with a higher energy, so I think it is pretty clear the plan is to win without blitzing every game with that high physical intensity for 90 minutes 38 games a season (which seemed to be the only plan in the past). I do agree though that we absolutely should be doing it against the big guns.

 

[Judge Jules]

Not to disagree with the critical comments above but I'd venture a note of optimism in that we're still well in the hunt. Winning stuff will always involve getting through sticky patches on the way. In the past those have finished us off even when we've started well, but now we as a club and a team look to me to have a momentum that can carry us, and is carrying us, through them. There's a lot of work to do yet, of course there is, but keep the faith.

 

[Halmeister]

Fabinho and Trent were poo.

 

[gkmacca]

Fabinho played some good stuff and made a few howlers, much like Keita when fans were raving about him. Clearly they both need to learn the style of play and settle in. There's great potential in both of them.

I feel one minor problem we have is that the players now have so much more faith in Allison than in his predecessors that they're using him far too often as an all purpose get-out-of-jail option. Partly because the defenders used to want to get as far away from Karius or Ming as possible they had a dogged desire to find a swift way forwards, which aided our fast attacking style. Now it's more like the opposite: if they feel the slightest anxiety about passing forwards they just turn around and give it back to Allison. It usually means the opposition starts to push up and pressure all our defenders, and Allison has to boot the ball forwards and we lose it. This happened way too often yesterday in the second half. We need to recover a bit of confidence, daring and aggression.

 

[manwithnoname]

It feels weird doing RAAATTTTINNNNNNNGS! with us top of the league, and undefeated, and yet feeling we didn't play that well (again) and that there's quite a bit that needs fixing, and some large concerns about shape and formation and form. It was pretty much the team expected, with the unlucky Shaqiri missing out, as Klopp obsesses about shape and worries about the midfield three with Shaqiri in it. But he should have played on the evidence of yesterday.

It was a pretty exciting game, action and positive intent from sides, but littered with mistakes and wasted opportunities. And we also had a good goal disallowed. But concerns were plentiful: we have to change shape to accommodate Fabinho and that reorganisation left us ragged at times, and he isn't worth it. I don't know how he lasted so long on the pitch. Arsenal were playing against 2 men in a three man midfield. And the lack of goal threat was painful in comparison to the quality finishers Arsenal have.

We really should have won this. they have a fucking AWFUL defence and we didn't make it count.

Alisson (5) Made a couple of mistakes and was lucky they didn't score from one hapless flap at a cross. Decent save from Lacazette, but not at his best and needs to make sure he doesn't repeat this sort of display.

TAA (4) One of those games when everyone starts going on about his defensive weaknesses and how he is actually a midfielder. Sloppy, stupid and overwhelmed, but he was given a bit more help in the second half and did improve a bit.

Virgil (8) Should have scored at least two goals. Was very, very impressive once again, but gets a point deducted for the misses. That seems harsh and cruel, but I am, so that's what he gets. A giant of a player.

Gomez (7) Another classy, powerful display at CB, had his hands full at times, thanks to Arsenal obliterating TAA on the left, but stayed calm and composed.

Robertson (7) Back to somewhere near his usual high standards, he was very busy defensively but never stopped looking to attack and his perpetual motion was impressive.

Milner (6) Struggled in the first half, as he and Wijnaldum tried to cover the midfield area with Clown Shoes Fabinho all over the fucking place. He looked pretty knackered as the game went on too, but didn't stop him from scoring a vital goal, so gets an extra point for that.

Wijnaldum (5) Nah, this wasn't it chief. Failed to exert any influence or genuine effect on the game. Neat, of course, but nothing else really. We lost the battle here. Which was not all his fault

Fabinho (3) Fucking shit. Can't play on his own as a DM, and was so slow in everything he did. Totally overrun at times, as he looked as if he was playing in slow motion. Easy to see why Klopp hasn't played him much, this was fucking diabolical and he didn't improve much when Klopp changed the shape to help him out.

Salah (6) Really dangerous and showed some great skill at a very high speed, but seemed - again - really reticent to just take a shot. Made a couple of odd decisions with his final pass too.

Mane (6) Not a great first half as the whole team seemed to suffer from creaking joints and fuzzy thinking, but still had a goal disallowed and also did well for the goal, as he gave the Arsenal defence a tougher time after the break.

Firmino (5) Er, was he back as the striker? Seemed to flit between the two, as he dropped back to help out the midfield depleted by Clown Shoes. Hit the post, but other than that was hardworking, but lacking in any real ingenuity and class. Not had a great season so far, and seems to be reverting to type after last season's excellent return. A pathetic two goals in the league. That's less than Ryan Fraser and Raul Jimenez have managed.

 

[Frogfish]

I listened to much of the first half on the radio, and watched the game from the last 10 mins of the first half onwards, so I missed seeing most of the offending passage of play in respect of Fabinho. From what I saw Gini was really struggling in the first period too. I think that Klopp got it wrong tactically in this game. I'm not saying Emery bossed it tactically (as the narrative will surely be in respect of this rat-faced new darling of the sports media), because we could have had a hatful of goals ourselves– however, Arsenal managed to create situations where they marched through our midfield with impunity at times. I think the players created their chances and held onto a clean sheet for much of the game in spite of Klopp's tactics yesterday. I'm a Klopp fan, but yesterday was not his finest hour.

Klopp admitted in this post match interview that the tactics were wrong in the first half and they made a change.

 

[Hansern]

Rating for the ratings: 5

 

[Frogfish]

Firmino is our biggest problem this season imo.

He's nowhere near peak physical form, presumably due to the world cup, & almost every team we've played have doubled up on him, even at the expense of make & Salah, as its clear if he doesn't play well the other two struggle to find form.

As such, he's dropping further & further back & is becoming almost ineffectual.

Of course we have issues settling in Fabinho, but if the front three are on song we can live it with it.

True. I love Firmino but Shaq is clearly able and willing to share the load and should have been used more often to date.

 

[Frogfish]

Rating for the ratings: 5

That's high. Brendan's worst performance of the season by a mile. Maybe he needs resting but our squad has been somewhat diminished by departures of late. It's probably worth continuing with him and hope he writes himself into form.

 

[aquaman4]

The linesmen in the premier league are mostly awful compared to other leagues I watch . Do they even know the offside rule properly? If they are given 7 clips and asked for their opinion they would get 3 right and four wrong . Each week we have agrivated managers complaining of wrong decisions by the refs and Linos

 

[Frogfish]

Let them be the one's to sprint. Arsenal are tap machines, they can't sprint like that for the whole season, they'll get tired ......

Now where and when have I heard that before .... oh yeah, last season referring to us !

 

[Frogfish]

I suppose we've seen for ourselves that that level of pressing isn't sustainable across a season without incurring injuries and a squad that looks increasingly exhausted. Across the Xmas period, for instance, it is just too much work winning games through this high energy tactic, particularly if you don't have the depth of the likes of City. So I'm actually glad we're winning games by other means this season. We do seem to be storing energy, winning with the least possible levels of exertion. That being said, surely we can reignite the press for key fixtures like this one? I'd like to see that we still have Heavy Metal on the Klopp playlist.

You mean like last season when with a smaller squad we made the CL final and were only a few points off second ? Klopp has clearly changed direction, and not necessarily for the better despite our start.

It is more than conceivable that with a larger squad and with VvD, Gomez and Robbo now strengthening the defence beyond recognition, that with adherence to last season's press we could be even better off than we are. Let's not make our current position a justification for the lack of pressing.

 

[manwithnoname]

You mean like last season when with a smaller squad we made the CL final and were only a few points off second ? Klopp has clearly changed direction, and not necessarily for the better despite our start.

It is more than conceivable that with a larger squad and with VvD, Gomez and Robbo now strengthening the defence beyond recognition, that with adherence to last season's press we could be even better off than we are. Let's not make our current position a justification for the lack of pressing.

Yep. I like having more than one way of playing, but I think we need to recognise that if one way of playing isn't as effective or suitable, don't do it.
We need to beat sides like Arsenal.

 

[Frogfish]

Yep. I like having more than one way of playing, but I think we need to recognise that if one way of playing isn't as effective or suitable, don't do it.
We need to beat sides like Arsenal.

It's good having more than one string to the bow, which we clearly do now, however as you said there is a time and place for the heavy press ... and the likes of Arsenal and City are it. We don't have to keep it going for 90 mins, as Klopp himself has said: pressure 'blocks' of 10-15 mins can be sufficient 2-3 times a match, but we don't even see that now.

 

[moron]

I hate saying this but part from @manwithnoname review - there seems to be an overall calm and understanding about this result in these post match reviews that I think is not really warranted. We really needed to win this game despite Arsenal's effort against us. I mean they are shit - Palace managed to get two goals against them, and dealt with Ozil and co better than we did. To me every draw is as bad as a loss this season - ask yourself despite Arsenal's improvement since the start of the season - can you imagine City or Chelsea losing to them or drawing against them like we did last night ? If we had any PL winning hopes then it all got fucked up last night. We cannot afford to lose/draw any games other than the ones City are drawing/losing against plus we can't even afford to win 1-0 against the lesser opposition - we have to win 3-0 or more to make shit up on goal difference.

Really surprised at Klopp - just like last season against the Spurs at home, and the Europa League final - he has found no way to play against teams that do the one touch pass and move into space like Arsenal did - you think he would have setup the team to play better. Our only tactic in that game seemed to be play down a congested left hand side and then look to play a long ball to Salah who should have some space. The midfield battle was completely lost - every game I have seen this season - there has been very little attempt to play any possession football that is forward moving apart from against RedStar. We are so so fucking slow moving the ball forward when there is some space, and Robertson had a decent game last night but he started doing lots of good impressions of Henderson's pass back option.

Thought Mane did fuck all in the first half along with Firminio - everything seemed all over the place up front and in midfield. Just fucking shambles - and I tell ya what - that Fab fella - his long legs are going to get him sent off if he cannot live up to the speed of this league.

I really hope Chelsea draw (unlikely), and have absolutely no hope that Southampton can get anything today.

 

[Hansern]

That's high. Brendan's worst performance of the season by a mile. Maybe he needs resting but our squad has been somewhat diminished by departures of late. It's probably worth continuing with him and hope he writes himself into form.

Very true, some rest on Tuesday might see him back on form against Fulham.

 

[Woland]

Arsenal are fucking shit, we were bollocks. I liked it when we tried to win every challenge and every ball last year, but we look reactive and predictable this season. Which I admit is fucking weird given the results, but it doesn't seem sustainable. Fabinho was utter horse shit yesterday. It was a total Lucas of a performance. I'll let TAA off this once because he's a top shagger, but he can't repeat that shit again. Virg got clattered by the keeper when he hit the post, so why isn't that a pen? The offside, well fuck it. We should have won regardless. Anyone other than Fabinho and we probs would have

 

[moron]

Arsenal are fucking shit, we were bollocks. I liked it when we tried to win every challenge and every ball last year, but we look reactive and predictable this season. Which I admit is fucking weird given the results, but it doesn't seem sustainable. Fabinho was utter horse shit yesterday. It was a total Lucas of a performance. I'll let TAA off this once because he's a top shagger, but he can't repeat that shit again. Virg got clattered by the keeper when he hit the post, so why isn't that a pen? The offside, well fuck it. We should have won regardless. Anyone other than Fabinho and we probs would have

Thank you..totally agree...finally some post match proper reaction rather than the emotional...its the taking part that counts ballshit.

 

[KopRed]

BTW the ref is a dick. It just felt like he woke up that morning determined to reinvent the rules. "Letting the game flow" is not an excuse for letting fouls get away without being called and trying to even things out at his own discretion. There was no consistency and Arsenal were using arms galore, dragging, pulling, impeding without getting penalised.

He should be fucking sacked.

 

[Brizzle]

Frustrating game. We could have won 4-1 and could have lost 4-1. Mane goal disallowed was shit, big virg shooting at the keeper was shit. Salah not finding Mane in the 93rd min was shit.

Me shouting shit when Laca scored was shit (as it removed avoidance of doubt around me that i was a red in the home end) lolz

 

[Mystic]

City dropped points against Wolves, calm down with this nonsense that they don't drop points.

 

[Hansern]

BTW the ref is a dick. It just felt like he woke up that morning determined to reinvent the rules. "Letting the game flow" is not an excuse for letting fouls get away without being called and trying to even things out at his own discretion. There was no consistency and Arsenal were using arms galore, dragging, pulling, impeding without getting penalised.

He should be fucking sacked.

There was an incident were Kolasinac fouled Salah about 4 times in 2 seconds, and the ref gave nothing.
He was really poor.

 

[mark1975]

I was quite surprised that BT and in particular Ferdinand, spent most of the post match talking about how it was a great point for Arsenal. They haven't fallen that far behind that a point at home to one of their rivals is a good result. And for all of their domination in the game, which is expected of a top class passing side at home, we had the more clear cut opportunities during the game and arguably should have won. We all expected a tough game and a point away at your rivals is title winning stuff, providing you do the business at home and against the rest of the league. Arsenal were treated like they'd turned from Stoke City to Real Madrid overnight.

 

[Hansern]

As others have said already, but what I found the most annoying was the constant tv coverage of Emery. I nearly switched the TV off.

 

[dantes]

BTW the ref is a dick. It just felt like he woke up that morning determined to reinvent the rules. "Letting the game flow" is not an excuse for letting fouls get away without being called and trying to even things out at his own discretion. There was no consistency and Arsenal were using arms galore, dragging, pulling, impeding without getting penalised.

He should be fucking sacked.

It might feel good, but at the end of the day sacking him and then hanging his [bcolor=transparent]dismembered limbs from the stands [/bcolor]won't bring our two points back.

 

[manwithnoname]

I was quite surprised that BT and in particular Ferdinand, spent most of the post match talking about how it was a great point for Arsenal. They haven't fallen that far behind that a point at home to one of their rivals is a good result. And for all of their domination in the game, which is expected of a top class passing side at home, we had the more clear cut opportunities during the game and arguably should have won. We all expected a tough game and a point away at your rivals is title winning stuff, providing you do the business at home and against the rest of the league. Arsenal were treated like they'd turned from Stoke City to Real Madrid overnight.

Yeah, fair enough, although Emery has done a good job so far, no doubt and signing Torreira (sp?) looks a good bit of business.

That said, we should be beating a team with that bunch of clowns in defence, and we didn't. Firmino, TAA and the hapless Fabinho cost us three points, but Wijnaldum, Mane and Milner can play much better than that too. We're a better side than Arsenal, even if they did have - on the day - better attackers and a stronger midfield.

So we drew away to a good side, and three of our team were piss-poor