AHOOOOOW ! - This Is The Wolves Thread

[themn]

[quote author=Marquis link=topic=38125.msg1021570#msg1021570 date=1261856270]
[quote author=themn link=topic=38125.msg1021565#msg1021565 date=1261856013]
Yes, I'm glad she's around, by jingo !
[/quote]

You know I saw this before the edit.
You were right the first time.
[/quote]

You know I know you know, you temptress !

 

[FoxForceFive]

Thank fuck for that.

Boy we needed it. Liked Aqualini's input, but fucking hell he needs games & fitness desperately, only then will we see just how good he is.

 

[Squiggles]

It was hardly an encouraging performance and I don't think by any means it's a benchmark. For the most part it was the same old shit, then one of the players lost his head and we took advantage.

The only things I'm taking this are:

Insua looked slightly better, at least in an attacking sense.
Gerrard's becoming more influential with each week.
Pacheco is ready for more first team action
Johnson needs to wake up sharpish.

 

[Rafiagra]

I like Pacheco when he came on.

We desperately need more positive attacking players in that team. We're so negative its untrue. 2 up against Wolves who are down to 10 men and they are still competing. We should be murdering them.

 

[Marquis]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38125.msg1021593#msg1021593 date=1261858064]
It was hardly an encouraging performance and I don't think by any means it's a benchmark.For the most part it was the same old shit, then one of the players lost his head and we took advantage.
[/quote]

I think we were fortunate that Ward was sent off.
Our play was patchy at best and I have my doubts that we would have scored otherwise.

Pacheco at least showed some enthusiasm when he came on, more than can be said for some of his team mates of late.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Marquis link=topic=38125.msg1021601#msg1021601 date=1261858936]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38125.msg1021593#msg1021593 date=1261858064]
It was hardly an encouraging performance and I don't think by any means it's a benchmark.For the most part it was the same old shit, then one of the players lost his head and we took advantage.
[/quote]

I think we were fortunate that Ward was sent off.
Our play was patchy at best and I have my doubts that we would have scored otherwise.

Pacheco at least showed some enthusiasm when he came on, more than can be said for some of his team mates of late.
[/quote]

The sending off was one of those things that can go either way. But at least we took advantage. I share your pessimism that we may not have broken them down withouit the sending off.

 

[HC]

Not looking forwards to the Villa game in a few days at all, poor performance till they lost a man and we eventually started to take the initiative.

 

[El Pistolero]

Up until the sending off we where diabolical, even worse than at Portsmouth. God fucking help us we've had 2 many false dawns this season i hope this isnt another.

 

[Rafiagra]

If we cant beat Villa then surely we have to be looking for a new manager.

 

[El Pistolero]

[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=38125.msg1021608#msg1021608 date=1261859659]
If we cant beat Villa then surely we have to be looking for a new manager.
[/quote]

Nope his job is safe either way and thats the depressing thing.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=38125.msg1021608#msg1021608 date=1261859659]
If we cant beat Villa then surely we have to be looking for a new manager.
[/quote]

What?

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=38125.msg1021602#msg1021602 date=1261859355]
[quote author=Marquis link=topic=38125.msg1021601#msg1021601 date=1261858936]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38125.msg1021593#msg1021593 date=1261858064]
It was hardly an encouraging performance and I don't think by any means it's a benchmark.For the most part it was the same old shit, then one of the players lost his head and we took advantage.
[/quote]

I think we were fortunate that Ward was sent off.
Our play was patchy at best and I have my doubts that we would have scored otherwise.

Pacheco at least showed some enthusiasm when he came on, more than can be said for some of his team mates of late.
[/quote]

The sending off was one of those things that can go either way. But at least we took advantage. I share your pessimism that we may not have broken them down withouit the sending off.
[/quote]

Disagree about the sending-off. I thought it was a clear 2nd yellow. It was only the ref's initial incompetence which gave rise to any doubt IMO.

As far as Rafa's concerned, I don't think we'll change managers halfway through the season. Things may be different at the end of the season if we miss out on 4th and don't win a Cup.

 

[HC]

[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=38125.msg1021608#msg1021608 date=1261859659]
If we cant beat Villa then surely we have to be looking for a new manager.
[/quote]

Since when have Villa been a pushover under Mon?

They've got a much better squad now and still have that decent starting 11, they've already beaten us once this season and given our form this season, I don't fancy coming away from Villa park with 3 points at all.

The very same Villa can go second in the table if Hull beat Utd and They beat Arsenal (unlikely,yeah) but thats a sign of how well they are doing this season.

 

[keniget]

Johnson was quite frustrating today. The amount of times he remained static and behind play when a good run was on... half wondering that it has to be down to an injury.

Aquilani showed some encouraging signs - looks quite the technician. Still needs to improve the consistency of his touch (and passing) though as more than a few times it got away from him a little more than he'd have liked but that can be put down to lack of match practice.

 

[Jack D Rips]

the really frustrating thing is that we are now closer to the top of the league than we were before we played Blackburn, a period in whice we lost two and drew one.

 

[darkstarexodus]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=38125.msg1021620#msg1021620 date=1261863468]
Johnson was quite frustrating today. The amount of times he remained static and behind play when a good run was on... half wondering that it has to be down to an injury.


[/quote]

I thought this was def one of the takehome messages from the match. He doesn't look the same player who started the season at all.

 

[Rashid]

Bright spots for me were Gerrard's determination to score and Pacheco's confidence for one so young. Other than that it's 3 points and thats all that counts. The less said about how we generally play football under Rafa the better.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Rashid link=topic=38125.msg1021708#msg1021708 date=1261913240]
Bright spots for me were Gerrard's determination to score and Pacheco's confidence for one so young. Other than that it's 3 points and thats all that counts. The less said about how we generally play football under Rafa the better.
[/quote]

We played better and created some good situations yesterday, still nowhere near our best and we allowed Wolves into it for longish periods (which has been the case all season), but suggesting we play shite football, when for the most part over the last two years we've played some brilliant football at times, is typical negative Rashid bias.

 

[Rashid]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38125.msg1021710#msg1021710 date=1261913424]
[quote author=Rashid link=topic=38125.msg1021708#msg1021708 date=1261913240]
Bright spots for me were Gerrard's determination to score and Pacheco's confidence for one so young. Other than that it's 3 points and thats all that counts. The less said about how we generally play football under Rafa the better.
[/quote]

We played better and created some good situations yesterday, still nowhere near our best and we allowed Wolves into it for longish periods (which has been the case all season), but suggesting we play shite football, when for the most part over the last two years we've played some brilliant football at times, is typical negative Rashid bias.

[/quote]

I think we play well when there is nothing to lose, like there was the last 3 months of last season and there is in Cup Finals. The status quo for Rafa in this league no matter who we play is two holding players, a holding winger, and a midfielder up front with Torres. Then Carra hoofing it and making the 3 behind Torres fight for the scraps.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Rashid link=topic=38125.msg1021713#msg1021713 date=1261913592]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38125.msg1021710#msg1021710 date=1261913424]
[quote author=Rashid link=topic=38125.msg1021708#msg1021708 date=1261913240]
Bright spots for me were Gerrard's determination to score and Pacheco's confidence for one so young. Other than that it's 3 points and thats all that counts. The less said about how we generally play football under Rafa the better.
[/quote]

We played better and created some good situations yesterday, still nowhere near our best and we allowed Wolves into it for longish periods (which has been the case all season), but suggesting we play shite football, when for the most part over the last two years we've played some brilliant football at times, is typical negative Rashid bias.

[/quote]

I think we play well when there is nothing to lose, like there was the last 3 months of last season and there is in Cup Finals. The status quo for Rafa in this league no matter who we play is two holding players, a holding winger, and a midfielder up front with Torres. Then Carra hoofing it and making the 3 behind Torres fight for the scraps.
[/quote]

We did ok when one of the holding players was Alonso, it's pretty obvious that Masher and Lucas weren't his ideal first choice, and yeah maybe he could have been bolder and broke it up somehow, but anyway. You're suggesting he sees two holding midfielders (and implying that makes it defensive) as the way to go, when the fact one of the those so called defensive/holding midfielders for the last 5 years has been a deep-lying playmaker, makes your assessment bullshit, based on the loss of Alonso, the injury to Aquilani and little or no other option for the manager to take. Infact, he spent £20m on Aquilani, who's clearly not a holding player, so how does that imply that he wants to play with two holding players against everyone?

And how is our play based on Carragher hoofing it? You're talking bullshit with holes all over the place, AGAIN.

 

[Rashid]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38125.msg1021717#msg1021717 date=1261914455]
[quote author=Rashid link=topic=38125.msg1021713#msg1021713 date=1261913592]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=38125.msg1021710#msg1021710 date=1261913424]
[quote author=Rashid link=topic=38125.msg1021708#msg1021708 date=1261913240]
Bright spots for me were Gerrard's determination to score and Pacheco's confidence for one so young. Other than that it's 3 points and thats all that counts. The less said about how we generally play football under Rafa the better.
[/quote]

We played better and created some good situations yesterday, still nowhere near our best and we allowed Wolves into it for longish periods (which has been the case all season), but suggesting we play shite football, when for the most part over the last two years we've played some brilliant football at times, is typical negative Rashid bias.

[/quote]

I think we play well when there is nothing to lose, like there was the last 3 months of last season and there is in Cup Finals. The status quo for Rafa in this league no matter who we play is two holding players, a holding winger, and a midfielder up front with Torres. Then Carra hoofing it and making the 3 behind Torres fight for the scraps.
[/quote]

We did ok when one of the holding players was Alonso, it's pretty obvious that Masher and Lucas weren't his ideal first choice, and yeah maybe he could have been bolder and broke it up somehow, but anyway. You're suggesting he sees two holding midfielders (and implying that makes it defensive) as the way to go, when the fact one of the those so called defensive/holding midfielders for the last 5 years has been a deep-lying playmaker, makes your assessment bullshit, based on the loss of Alonso, the injury to Aquilani and little or no other option for the manager to take.

And how is our play based on Carragher hoofing it? You're talking bullshit with holes all over the place, AGAIN.
[/quote]

Where did I say our best play was with Carra hoofing it? I said a lot of it involved Carra hoofing it, next time you go to the game take a look at the number of hoofs Carra makes in one game and then ask if he would be doing that if Rafa told him not to.

When Alonso was here he played deeper than Mascherano and was the defensive shield in addition to being a play maker, he did two jobs and it shows now he has gone. Alongside him was the worlds best defensive midfield player and they were superb together.... I still think we didn't need Mascherano in all those draws last season but then that's me.

What makes the formation worse though is that two DM's isn't enough for Rafa, he has Gerrard tracking back and tackling like an advanced midfield player as opposed to being a traditional number 10, and he has Kuyt the worlds best defensive attacker play 95% of games and now wants to buy Heskey the 2nd best defensive striker - neither can trap a bag of cement, are creative or make killer passes to improve our play.

I have also lost count on the number of times he has played full backs in midfield.

No wonder we are one of the most disjointed teams in the league when it comes to fluidity.

 

[Red Mullet]

Rashid - there was a guy called Ian Rush. Guess what he tracked backed and tackled as well.

 

[Rashid]

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=38125.msg1021722#msg1021722 date=1261915121]
Rashid - there was a guy called Ian Rush. Guess what he tracked backed and tackled as well.
[/quote]

He scored about 40 a season too mate and had some of the world's best players around him. He was on the pitch to score goals, defend 2nd. If he was scoring less I bet Bob and Kenny would have had him defend less....

Also, just because he chased back doesn't make him into a Kuyt or a defensive striker. This is the reason why normal debate can't be had sometimes.

 

[keniget]

It's almost easy to dismantle Rashid's argument, but what would be the point in doing so?

He'll just go round in circles not responding to any of the points and repeat himself.

Rafa is the most defensive manager in the world, Liverpool are a shambles and that's that. Let him have it.

 

[Rashid]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=38125.msg1021725#msg1021725 date=1261915329]
It's almost easy to dismantle Rashid's argument, but what would be the point in doing so?

He'll just go round in circles not responding to any of the points and repeat himself.

Rafa is the most defensive manager in the world, Liverpool are a shambles and that's that. Let him have it.
[/quote]

Dismantle it then, I don't see what I have said thats so wrong. I never said Rafa is one of the most defensive managers in the world but he is certainly too defensive to win this league given the absolute shit teams he has overestimated and given too much respect too. I've already mentioned what I think of the formation and the way the players are set up with in. He started his first season playing Finnan wide right and Josemi right back before realising how shit Josemi was, this season Dossenna and Aurelio have played left wing for Liverpool FC. In any given game we have up to 8 defensive players in it.

 

[Red Mullet]

[quote author=Rashid link=topic=38125.msg1021723#msg1021723 date=1261915258]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=38125.msg1021722#msg1021722 date=1261915121]
Rashid - there was a guy called Ian Rush. Guess what he tracked backed and tackled as well.
[/quote]

He scored about 40 a season too mate and had some of the world's best players around him. He was on the pitch to score goals, defend 2nd. If he was scoring less I bet Bob and Kenny would have had him defend less....

Also, just because he chased back doesn't make him into a Kuyt or a defensive striker. This is the reason why normal debate can't be had sometimes.
[/quote]

Do you actually read anybodys post? NO is the answer. I never said anything that's bolded.

Gerrard is not a traditional No 10, he's been asked to play his best and show game intelligence to what's happening. If tracking back and tackling is required, then he'll do it 1)because it's required and 2)he has the ability to do it.

All players should be tracking back and tackling. Objective, get the ball back so that we can go and score. Fairly obvious, no one can score if the team doesn't have the ball.

If Rush wasn't scoring, I'm pretty sure, he'll be trying to get the ball back to go and score.

Debating with you is pointless, you mis-read situations and posts.

 

[Red Mullet]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=38125.msg1021725#msg1021725 date=1261915329]
It's almost easy to dismantle Rashid's argument, but what would be the point in doing so?

He'll just go round in circles not responding to any of the points and repeat himself.

Rafa is the most defensive manager in the world, Liverpool are a shambles and that's that. Let him have it.
[/quote]

Sorry Keniget. You're right. I'm logging off.

 

[keniget]

The reason we've played fullbacks at midfield is because we've lacked decent alternatives. If you want to attack the manager for something, I'd use that as there is no arguing against it.

 

[Rashid]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=38125.msg1021730#msg1021730 date=1261915881]
The reason we've played fullbacks at midfield is because we've lacked decent alternatives. If you want to attack the manager for something, I'd use that as there is no arguing against it.
[/quote]

Who's fault is that then? Hicks? Gillette? Purslow? Go on you know you want to.

 

[Rashid]

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=38125.msg1021728#msg1021728 date=1261915792]
[quote author=Rashid link=topic=38125.msg1021723#msg1021723 date=1261915258]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=38125.msg1021722#msg1021722 date=1261915121]
Rashid - there was a guy called Ian Rush. Guess what he tracked backed and tackled as well.
[/quote]

He scored about 40 a season too mate and had some of the world's best players around him. He was on the pitch to score goals, defend 2nd. If he was scoring less I bet Bob and Kenny would have had him defend less....

Also, just because he chased back doesn't make him into a Kuyt or a defensive striker. This is the reason why normal debate can't be had sometimes.
[/quote]

Do you actually read anybodys post? NO is the answer. I never said anything that's bolded.

Gerrard is not a traditional No 10, he's been asked to play his best and show game intelligence to what's happening. If tracking back and tackling is required, then he'll do it 1)because it's required and 2)he has the ability to do it.

All players should be tracking back and tackling. Objective, get the ball back so that we can go and score. Fairly obvious, no one can score if the team doesn't have the ball.

If Rush wasn't scoring, I'm pretty sure, he'll be trying to get the ball back to go and score.

Debating with you is pointless, you mis-read situations and posts.
[/quote]

I think Kuyt is more known for tracking back, working hard and helping out than he is for attacking and that says it all. In fact I am certain he is a better player in attack than he shown for Liverpool so far, even though he does have 3 months a season of brilliant form.

I agree, players should track back but how many of them? We seem to bring every player back for corners, do we need 11 in the box to defend a corner and how come we don't commit many forward when we get one? You can name examples like Rushie mate but the teams he played in were set up to win. I seem to remember Rushie standing on the half way line when we were defending corners and free kicks whereas Torres is defending in the box.