Adama Traore
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Loads of moles in the underworld mate.
I saw a horrendous one on a poor old lady's face in town earlier. It had undergrowth sprouting from it, from which I could have sworn I saw a Japanese soldier emerging and asking if the war was over.
He's going to sign for Villa and he's going to be ace, isn't he?
And we'll hate Markovic even more.
And we'll hate Markovic even more.
You know fine rightly that mine was a joke you fucking spunkmachine.
Does anyone hate Markovic? He's a kid that our manager doesnt seem to have a plan with or know how to use.
I dont hate him at all. I just hope we can get the best out of him cause the kid has loads of potential.
There's a side of me that thinks our manager just might be a bit pants.
There's another side that says he's going to win us the league this season.
You've missed the point. I also see you've quoted my post from the Gomez thread without understanding the context.
Signing youngsters is great, and I have repeatedly been in favour of a policy of signing talented youngers.
But there are two important riders:
1. When you're spending big money on them as we did in the case of Coates (6 million), Ilori (8 million), Markovic (20 million), Alberto (7 million), Origi (10 million), the plan has to be much more than getting them 'knocking on the first team door'. You have to indulge them (within reasonable extents of course) - that includes playing them in their favoured positions, dropping senior players if needed (especially senior players like Lovren, Agger etc. who're underperforming).
2. Young players need to be assured that they won't have their paths to the first team blocked by pointless senior signings. E.g. Toure - his contribution since joining has been next to nought - wouldn't you rather have had that game time given to Ilori or Coates? Lallana - 6 goals and 5 assists last season for 25 million. Given a full season, Teixeira and Ibe together could have produced that. We'd have saved 25 million, and they'd have been a year further into their development today - genuine first teamers basically.
As it happens, Coates and Alberto have left having barely had a sniff at the first team. Ilori seems certain to go that way. Markovic seems likely to go that way. And Origi now has 4 senior strikers ahead of him in the pecking order (Benteke, Ings, Firmino, Sturridge) - it's a very tall order for him to now be successful here.
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Many of us stand in adoration at the likes of Madrid and their set up, with a B team and plenty of kids going spare. We also criticised Benitez for throwing money at tonnes and tonnes of kids, but some of it stuck with players like Sterling.
I think we're a bit more modest in our approach these days but we pay more. 5-10 years ago we criticised our hierarchy for not taking a leaf out of Arsenal's book and investing more money in up and coming kids, cf Wallcott. Same after that with Spurs and the likes of Bale. How many kids have fallen by the way side at Arsenal? We all know about the household names that have broken through, but we're kidding ourselves if we don't think there were dozens that went to waste in the sifting process.
My point is that it's difficult to have a plan as such. You buy a player, you develop them and you give them opportunities, via the reserves, loans, cups and then progression to the first team. Alberto and Ilori don't seem to be great examples to me, because both players seemed dead in the water from the word go. Rodgers didn't seem to fancy them and everyone thought we threw too much money at them - who bought them? Our investment in kids this Summer by contrast seems alot more focused. £3m on what looks like a steal on Gomez and £500k here and there on half a dozen up and comers of varying youth levels. If Rodgers really has taken over the reigns of transfers, then the committee were responsible for £13m on Ilori and Alberto. Contrast that to this Summer.
At the end of the day, our fringe is more promising than it's ever looked and so are our youth/reserve teams. We can argue about there not seeming to be a clear "plan", but the product of this so called fiasco is that everyone is telling everyone that Tex, Kent, Gomez etc are ready to play their part. We must be getting something right. If a player has enough quality he will eventually break into the side, I don't think we're permanently blunting development, some players just aren't quite as good as we believe them to be and they just don't kick on. If they are good enough they will play a part. Flanagan, Sterling, Suso (briefly), Ibe and now Tex and Gomez are testament to that. Gomez has just ousted a £13m signing from last year, so we're hardly blocking his route. As a result, we have two relatively young talented players battling it out. As far as I can see, that's progress.
1. When the discussion comes around to how to integrate youngsters I don't think too much criticism can be laid at Rodgers' or LFCs door. We bring as many youngsters through as any, and more than most. Sterling was handled the right way up until this Summer (no need to dissect that saga again here), Ibe looks to have been handled the right way, Rossiter, Williams, Kent, Sinclair, Chiravella, Suso was given chances but like Markovic (who we have clearly bought on potential and the advice of scouts, he didn't really take it. So are we to drop Coutinho to allow them to play in their 'favoured positions' ? Are we even sure of their best positions at that tender age ? Is giving them a run in the team, to the possible detriment of the team, in either their or our best long term interests ? Possibly heaping pressure on them, invoking the ire of the crowd and destroying their confidence ?
Gentle integration in the squad, and for some in the country & language, training with senior and better players day in day out and trying to build confidence & skills is surely the right tactic. I feel too many people make sweeping statements on our youth policy without regard for the mental and physical immaturity of these players. We can't go with what amounts to a virtual sink or swim policy and we are not party to what goes on in training which in the case of certain players e.g Coates & Ilori, may be more than pertinent.
2. You are being ridiculously dismissive of Toure, both to his onfield contributions (esp. In 2013/14) and off-field where it seems he is held in massive regard. Ditto your comments on Lallana, who you have already demonstrated a dislike for, whose contribution would have been more had his preseason not been curtailed by injury and season disrupted by injuries too.
3.As for your assertion that young players need to be told their route to the first team will not be blocked ? What naive world are you living in ? I'm sure that every player is aware of the potential and desire for competition and youngsters know they have to earn the right to play, not be given it on a silver platter.
There's a lot I can agree with here.
You'll note that I raised the point in this thread where we were purportedly willing to pay 15 million euros for a youngster. It's those kind of signings that I'm arguing definitely need a development plan.
As far as the academy is concerned, I mostly agree that the best we can do is to just keep at it. Talent that is good enough will find a way to shine through. I also agree that there are bound to be kids who fall of the radar. That is often inevitable.
I'm also not complaining about the quality of our youth teams/academy. I don't know where you get that impression. Everyone on this site acknowledges that the academy is churning out talent like never before. It's one of the few things that we've really got right over the last decade.
Having said that, I have to say that we can't possibly compare ourselves to the likes of Real or Barca. Their kids fail to make it because they have a galaxy of world superstars in their first teams. They shit trophies. We don't - bar one season, we've been stuck in 6th place for 5 years now. The likes of Suso, Teixeira, Sinclair, Coates, Ilori have had their paths to the first team blocked by mongs like Downing, Moses, Aspas, Borini, Toure etc. instead of world class players. That's a major difference.
Done deal -- to Villa, 5 years.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/aug/14/aston-villa-adama-traore-barcelona
Not sure what that option means - does it mean Barca can just go to Villa any time in the first 3 years to buy the player back? Or does it mean that if Villa wants to sell in the first 3 years, they first have to ask Barca if they want him back? I wish reports could be a bit more specific.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/aug/14/aston-villa-adama-traore-barcelona
Not sure what that option means - does it mean Barca can just go to Villa any time in the first 3 years to buy the player back? Or does it mean that if Villa wants to sell in the first 3 years, they first have to ask Barca if they want him back? I wish reports could be a bit more specific.
And Sherwood says (in the same article):
Hmm...
Hmm...
I read somewhere that he's only gone to the villa as they offered him a ridiculous increase in wages that no one else interested was willing to match and Barca didn't think he was worth.
Ha, well at least we didn't sign the greedy mother fucker!
In all seriousness though I don't mind. He would have been on our bench at best, might as well see a talented player doing well and playing regularly.
Good luck with football reporters, especially from Blighty, being clear about anything about which they write. We stil have people claiming Torres cost us £26 million 🙄
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