A sympathetic reading of our midfield.

[doctor_mac]

Why are the completed ones blocked out?

He doesn't want to show his good passes. Can I also point out that captain sideways is passing forward a hell of a lot, and a sizeable proportion of the missed passes were more adventurous long passes (which dickface says he doesn't attempt- and I suppose, should attempt). He says Lucas at his worst never had people run past him in midfield. Lucas, at his worst, ALWAYS had people running past him in midfield.

 

[Farkmaster]

Some of you won't follow directions.

I think Henderson is better than he's made to look trying to play in the current position. I think the issue with can there is he's less mobile, so I understand klopps predicament, especially without an am. That said, I think a huge part of the problem is that sticking a dm in as some weird sweeper as a way of preventing things when teams skip right through our midfield is missing the point. The positions we are in when we concede possession, and the fact that we do routinely when we have this formation without a decent am, is precisely why teams find lots of space against us, even when we aren't enjoying meaningful possession in the opposition half. What's the point of fixing a problem you are making. We shouldn't see this "formation" with this group of players, and they'll all look worse for it.

 

[refugee]

There's a pear in my fruit bowel

Weird way to come out of the closet

 

[LarryHagman]

Our midfield is very average. Not shit, not great, just very average.
Would any of the other top clubs be interested in these players? Not a chance.
I know the sum of the parts is better than a list of names but it struck me post-Watford just how many average players we had in that first 11; Ming, Lovren, Matip, Moreno, Hendo, Can, Gini. Not an inspiring list of names really, left TAA out as he's new/young.
It's the predictability of it all that's the most frustrating aspect; great going forward but likely to concede 50 a season again. Any Liverpool fan could have told you what need addressing in April/May and it 100% hasn't been. Depressing.

 

[keniget]

Our midfield is very average. Not shit, not great, just very average.
Would any of the other top clubs be interested in these players? Not a chance.

Juve are interested in Can by all accounts.

 

[JohnnyRocket]

I always thought Henderson was surprisingly decent in and around the opposition box.

Playing him at DM really negates much of what was good about his game.

 

[hmmmmm1]

most people on this forum knew that midfield 3 would struggle even against Watford. There are too many similar players and not enough guile. guijic should start ahead of wini.

 

[dmishra]

I always thought Henderson was surprisingly decent in and around the opposition box.

Playing him at DM really negates much of what was good about his game.

Yes. But I think this is to do with his injuries - I suspect he's lost a lot of his earlier mobility.

I happen to think he's quite bad at the holding position.

If we have to play Can and Henderson together, I'd play Can in the holding role, and Henderson a bit further up.

Though if he's actually lost his running power, then I wouldn't be averse to dropping him for Grujic.

Sooner or later the Henderson as captain conversation needs to happen as well. The guy isn't an automatic selection in the starting XI in my book.

 

[kingjulian]

At his fucking worst, Lucas didn't just let opponents stroll by him.

I must have watched football with my eyes open in the last 10 to 12 years then....no body told me you must fucking close your eyes.

 

[Modo]

I must have watched football with my eyes open in the last 10 to 12 years then....no body told me you must fucking close your eyes.

I think you should close your eyes right about now.

 

[Holle]

 

[FoxForceFive]

Yes. But I think this is to do with his injuries - I suspect he's lost a lot of his earlier mobility.

I happen to think he's quite bad at the holding position.

If we have to play Can and Henderson together, I'd play Can in the holding role, and Henderson a bit further up.

Though if he's actually lost his running power, then I wouldn't be averse to dropping him for Grujic.

Sooner or later the Henderson as captain conversation needs to happen as well. The guy isn't an automatic selection in the starting XI in my book.

Yeah, but he's got captain already, so the fact that he doesn't deserve it really doesn't matter, cos we have no one else who does either.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Yeah, but he's got captain already, so the fact that he doesn't deserve it really doesn't matter, cos we have no one else who does either.

Absolutely this, as I've argued before. No candidates in the squad who are clearly more qualified.

 

[Modo]

Absolutely this, as I've argued before. No candidates in the squad who are clearly more qualified.

Which shows you how deep the problem is. Our most senior player and I'm talking longevity in the club now that Lucas has left is Flanagan. Flanagan!
Nothing against the lad, but it means that we haven't developed a decent enough player since 2010 who could take over the armband.
Klopp should do a Houllier and just give it to Matip.
But it's OK in 5 years time a scouser will be captain again. Yes I'm talking about TAA.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Which shows you how deep the problem is. Our most senior player and I'm talking longevity in the club now that Lucas has left is Flanagan. Flanagan!
Nothing against the lad, but it means that we haven't developed a decent enough player since 2010 who could take over the armband.
Klopp should do a Houllier and just give it to Matip.
But it's OK in 5 years time a scouser will be captain again. Yes I'm talking about TAA.

I'm not yet sold on Matip either, to be honest. I'm inclined to think he is suffering from an overall dysfunction in our defense but he's not exempt from blame in a lot of our goals conceded either.

 

[LarryHagman]

Matip could do with being good first.

 

[Modo]

Typical post when things are going badly, whinging about the same thing over and over despite the fact we conceded 2 goals from corners where the defensive qualities of Henderson didn't mean a thing. Also the player you neglected to call a cunt, Can, was actually involved negatively in the buildup to the goal we conceded from open play when he lazily and stupidly backheeled the ball to nobody handing them possession and a throw in our final third.

The strange thing is that I agree with you on Henderson, he's not a defensive midfielder, he's not particularly good in that position but Klopp likes to have him sitting deeper as Can is too fucking slow to help when teams break against us. For all the Henderson bashing I don't hear a lot of Klopp criticism, after all Henderson had a fantastic season before Klopp took over and changed his position, why is that never worthy of a mention? Maybe because you just don't like Jordan Henderson and never did?

I have been a big critic of Klopp with regards to his midfield selections pretty much since around the period we made it into the Europa League final. I've also said that I'd rather Henderson compete for a spot further up the pitch. Yes, I advocated playing Lucas because he basically was our only competent player in that position, but to no avail. One of the things i absolutely didn't want to do when Lucas left was keep harping about how we need him, because there are so many players out there that could have replaced him and I admittedly also felt that his time was up. 2 months later and we still haven't replaced him, it's astonishing.
So yeah Klopp does deserve a lot of flack for not sorting it out.

 

[LarryHagman]

Hang on. We're not blaming our midfield woes on Lucaslessness are we? OMG, I've heard it all now.
Not content with attempting to cajole people into his accepting his ethereal effectiveness for 10 years, his apologists are now trying to spin that our ineptitude is a direct result of not replacing him? Fuck me Tom.

 

[jan]

 

[Modo]

2-0 Lazio when he left the pitch in the 80th minute.
Juventus scored 2 when he was off the pitch.

 

[FreshRed]

If he gave up free kicks in that area of the pitch more often instead of around the penalty box, he would have been much more loved here.

 

[Oncy]

Working out real well having no DM so far this season.
4 goals shipped in 2 games already.