UEFA European Under-21 Championship
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Going to extra time, some super shit defending at set pieces has probs cost england the game as theyre legs are gone and if it does go to penos , their heads will go,obvs
That said, Ze Germans are very ,very good, so it wouldn't be a shock if they lost, they could've easily conceded a few more on another day
That said, Ze Germans are very ,very good, so it wouldn't be a shock if they lost, they could've easily conceded a few more on another day
Apparently Boothroyd, by contrast with other England managers, has had them practising penalties. Let's see if it makes a difference.
Ha. Wouldn't you know it.
*whistles*
Didn't catch the match but apparently Germany's right back Jeremy Toljan had a great game?
They always talk about taking penalty kicks in training, like it's some masterplan, but surely the point is that it can't replicate the match situation. I don't know why the hacks and pundits never mention this. Because most players these days are pretty good technically and can take penalties on the training ground, but the important thing is if you can take them after 120 minutes in a high pressure game, with your calves and hamstrings aching, blisters on your feet and the crowd baying. It's no good taking a few after a light training session and thinking you're prepared. I sometimes think that's why so many teams play for penalties after about 70 minutes in some games - they think, 'Ah, we did this in training and it was a doddle!' Maybe if they stopped doing it, and got scared about the prospect, you'd see more teams trying to win the bloody game in normal time!
The german xi was exceptional , the fluffed their chances but played exceptionally well, the two full backs and the wingers were relentless
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...under-21-championship-semi-final-match-report
[article]“The problem we had was that we played that many shapes tonight as we tried to get a foothold in the game,” Boothroyd said.
“We started with our normal diamond, which worked well to start with. Then we tried to use our front players in a back six to get some whip back in the game, which we did. We put the wide players really wide. And we tried to go to a five. When you see chances go begging for them you start to think it might be your day. Unfortunately not.”[/article]
[article]“The problem we had was that we played that many shapes tonight as we tried to get a foothold in the game,” Boothroyd said.
“We started with our normal diamond, which worked well to start with. Then we tried to use our front players in a back six to get some whip back in the game, which we did. We put the wide players really wide. And we tried to go to a five. When you see chances go begging for them you start to think it might be your day. Unfortunately not.”[/article]
I see what you're saying, but I thought successive England managers until Boothroyd had *not* bothered about practising penalties, for much the same reasons as you set out above, with the results we've all seen and lamented. Surely practising them might at least have a kind of placebo effect, reducing the nervousness factor - potentially anyway - because they could tell themselves they had practised them already (or would have this effect if our players weren't so mentally weak as a general rule). I'll bet the Jairmens practise penalties all right.
Put their wages on the line in penalty practice, that'll sort them out.
Oh boo hoo, England beaten on penalties by Germany again! The boys were so unlucky! Is it a mental thing? What can we do?!
Be better, for a start.
England didn't even deserve to get to the penalty shoot-out: Germany were far superior and had about 10 players missing too.
Be better, for a start.
England didn't even deserve to get to the penalty shoot-out: Germany were far superior and had about 10 players missing too.
Quite.
Henry Winter is right to dismiss all the excuses; I'm not so sure of his belief that bringing n Shearer will do much good. Most players have all the technique needed to slot a ball in the corner of a goal from a penalty kick. What few of them have is the composure to do so after 120 minutes in a high pressure environment. Instead of the obsession with practising taking them in the relaxed context of the training ground, they'd surely be better trying to work on improving the mentality:
Only those Englishmen who make the journey down the avenue of anxiety from the halfway line for shoot-outs, from Turin to Tychy, knowing all eyes burn upon them and that stigma is a fluffed kick away, can fully appreciate the exacting pressure, but there has to be a new mindset adopted by those awaiting their turn.
Before their latest shoot-out collapse, their eighth in ten at under-21 and senior tournaments since 1990, England’s youngsters “practised and practised” penalties, according to Aidy Boothroyd, working on their preferred approach, but the later kickers also need to react to the goalkeeper’s movement.
For each of England’s five penalties in Tuesday’s European Under-21 Championship semi-final misery, Germany’s Julian Pollersbeck dived to his right every time, his stronger side. England’s best two penalties were their third and fourth, from Ben Chilwell and James Ward-Prowse, who placed the ball the other way. This was always their plan, but as Pollersbeck kept diving right, there was surely some incentive for the fifth taker, Nathan Redmond, to follow Chilwell and Ward-Prowse to go to the goalkeeper’s left. England’s second kick, by Tammy Abraham, had been easily saved by Pollersbeck, diving right.
However much England rehearse, they also have to adapt when “live”. It would be preferable if they did not become so passive during games, sitting back as they did against Germany, and actually try to win the game in normal, or extra time, but a more considered approach to shoot-outs would be welcome. They are not lotteries; they are tests of technique, undeniably, but also thought and fortitude. England’s shattered players held a debrief with Boothroyd here yesterday morning, although the FA’s technical director, Dan Ashworth, had already left town for a long-standing engagement back home.
Ashworth was very active on the touchline before kick-off, pointing things out to Boothroyd, and it will be his views on more dead-ball downfall that will shape another FA plan to make players better equipped to negotiate a shoot-out. Bringing in Alan Shearer and Michael Owen, such clinical penalty-takers for England, and Matt Le Tissier, imperious for Southampton, to work one-on-one and collectively with the age-group players would be a start. Sports psychologists will assist, as would creating more of a culture of responsibility-taking in academies.
It’s not simply a question of technique, as maestros such as Michel Platini, Roberto Baggio and Zico proved by failing from 12 yards. It’s about handling the pressure, body language, applying intelligence.
As well as honing a technique, delivering the ball quickly and rising, and making his penalties hard to reach, Shearer also worked on the mind games. Knowing the opposition spied on training on the eve of matches, Shearer would always place his practice penalties the other way to his intended match-day ones.
England’s goalkeeper in Tychy, Jordan Pickford, yesterday remarked that it was “unfortunate” to lose on penalties. Luck plays no part. “It’s one of them, isn’t it?” he reflected about the outcome. It isn’t. Germany are stronger mentally.
Pickford may simply have been diplomatic in public, but clearly an even more scientific approach needs to be taken by Ashworth’s coaches at St George’s Park, including following Dutch research involving taking a second longer to place the ball before addressing the kick, not hurrying. Ashworth’s organisation encourages the staging of plenty of shoot-outs at age-group level but the English mindset remains racked with nerves
Redmond, who came to Poland desperate to win the trophy, was wrapped in the collective, supportive embrace of his team-mates. “Nathan’s a very close friend of mine and a team-mate at club level as well,” Southampton’s Ward-Prowse said. “I know his mindset and I know this experience will make him stronger as a person and as a footballer.”
Nathaniel Chalobah posted two emotional tweets backing a “true winner in my eyes”. Redmond’s mother, Michelle, also took to social media to reiterate the Joshua J Marine maxim that “challenges are what make life interesting, overcoming them is what makes life meaningful”.
Redmond, pacey and skilful, will recover and clearly has a role to play in the senior side in the future. Of England’s successes out in Poland, the shot-stopping, attack-launching Pickford could become a regular in Gareth Southgate’s squad if he continues his recent progress and keeps on top of his weight.
The two centre backs, Alfie Mawson and Calum Chambers, returned with reputations enhanced, although England’s serial failure to mark properly at set pieces is reaching epidemic proportions. If Ward-Prowse asserts his talent more, he could make the step up. Demarai Gray, 21 yesterday, seized his chance, scoring twice in the tournament, and will surely feature regularly for Leicester City. “I’ve taken it in my stride and I’m always learning,” Gray said. “These tournaments are about development.”
Even more so if England learn from their mistakes.
Henry Winter is right to dismiss all the excuses; I'm not so sure of his belief that bringing n Shearer will do much good. Most players have all the technique needed to slot a ball in the corner of a goal from a penalty kick. What few of them have is the composure to do so after 120 minutes in a high pressure environment. Instead of the obsession with practising taking them in the relaxed context of the training ground, they'd surely be better trying to work on improving the mentality:
Only those Englishmen who make the journey down the avenue of anxiety from the halfway line for shoot-outs, from Turin to Tychy, knowing all eyes burn upon them and that stigma is a fluffed kick away, can fully appreciate the exacting pressure, but there has to be a new mindset adopted by those awaiting their turn.
Before their latest shoot-out collapse, their eighth in ten at under-21 and senior tournaments since 1990, England’s youngsters “practised and practised” penalties, according to Aidy Boothroyd, working on their preferred approach, but the later kickers also need to react to the goalkeeper’s movement.
For each of England’s five penalties in Tuesday’s European Under-21 Championship semi-final misery, Germany’s Julian Pollersbeck dived to his right every time, his stronger side. England’s best two penalties were their third and fourth, from Ben Chilwell and James Ward-Prowse, who placed the ball the other way. This was always their plan, but as Pollersbeck kept diving right, there was surely some incentive for the fifth taker, Nathan Redmond, to follow Chilwell and Ward-Prowse to go to the goalkeeper’s left. England’s second kick, by Tammy Abraham, had been easily saved by Pollersbeck, diving right.
However much England rehearse, they also have to adapt when “live”. It would be preferable if they did not become so passive during games, sitting back as they did against Germany, and actually try to win the game in normal, or extra time, but a more considered approach to shoot-outs would be welcome. They are not lotteries; they are tests of technique, undeniably, but also thought and fortitude. England’s shattered players held a debrief with Boothroyd here yesterday morning, although the FA’s technical director, Dan Ashworth, had already left town for a long-standing engagement back home.
Ashworth was very active on the touchline before kick-off, pointing things out to Boothroyd, and it will be his views on more dead-ball downfall that will shape another FA plan to make players better equipped to negotiate a shoot-out. Bringing in Alan Shearer and Michael Owen, such clinical penalty-takers for England, and Matt Le Tissier, imperious for Southampton, to work one-on-one and collectively with the age-group players would be a start. Sports psychologists will assist, as would creating more of a culture of responsibility-taking in academies.
It’s not simply a question of technique, as maestros such as Michel Platini, Roberto Baggio and Zico proved by failing from 12 yards. It’s about handling the pressure, body language, applying intelligence.
As well as honing a technique, delivering the ball quickly and rising, and making his penalties hard to reach, Shearer also worked on the mind games. Knowing the opposition spied on training on the eve of matches, Shearer would always place his practice penalties the other way to his intended match-day ones.
England’s goalkeeper in Tychy, Jordan Pickford, yesterday remarked that it was “unfortunate” to lose on penalties. Luck plays no part. “It’s one of them, isn’t it?” he reflected about the outcome. It isn’t. Germany are stronger mentally.
Pickford may simply have been diplomatic in public, but clearly an even more scientific approach needs to be taken by Ashworth’s coaches at St George’s Park, including following Dutch research involving taking a second longer to place the ball before addressing the kick, not hurrying. Ashworth’s organisation encourages the staging of plenty of shoot-outs at age-group level but the English mindset remains racked with nerves
Redmond, who came to Poland desperate to win the trophy, was wrapped in the collective, supportive embrace of his team-mates. “Nathan’s a very close friend of mine and a team-mate at club level as well,” Southampton’s Ward-Prowse said. “I know his mindset and I know this experience will make him stronger as a person and as a footballer.”
Nathaniel Chalobah posted two emotional tweets backing a “true winner in my eyes”. Redmond’s mother, Michelle, also took to social media to reiterate the Joshua J Marine maxim that “challenges are what make life interesting, overcoming them is what makes life meaningful”.
Redmond, pacey and skilful, will recover and clearly has a role to play in the senior side in the future. Of England’s successes out in Poland, the shot-stopping, attack-launching Pickford could become a regular in Gareth Southgate’s squad if he continues his recent progress and keeps on top of his weight.
The two centre backs, Alfie Mawson and Calum Chambers, returned with reputations enhanced, although England’s serial failure to mark properly at set pieces is reaching epidemic proportions. If Ward-Prowse asserts his talent more, he could make the step up. Demarai Gray, 21 yesterday, seized his chance, scoring twice in the tournament, and will surely feature regularly for Leicester City. “I’ve taken it in my stride and I’m always learning,” Gray said. “These tournaments are about development.”
Even more so if England learn from their mistakes.
As far as I know most England squads have practised pens. I can't remember the exception - I know there was one (Woy?) - but most make a big thing of it, and I'm not sure why. Of course it's worth practising most things, to hone your technique, but what I think they confuse is preparing for 'taking penalties' and preparing for the shoot out. They do far too much of the former and nowhere near enough of the latter. Being much more rigorous in studying the keepers you'll face, and being prepared for all the mind games involved, and taking part when you're shattered, not when you're fresh as a daisy, and involving sports psychology more - these are surely useful things to work on.
I'm sure there are things that they can work on behind the scenes to toughen players up mentally but surely the knowledge that you were lucky to get to pens after being battered for 120mins plays a real part. Having to scrape and claw your way to a pen shootout is mentally shattering.
It's the same thing with the senior side - there is an inferiority complex - as we see them lose their heads and / or retreat into their little shells time after time.
I don't really know what they can do about this because ultimately because we just need to develop better players and teams that know how to manage games.
It's the same thing with the senior side - there is an inferiority complex - as we see them lose their heads and / or retreat into their little shells time after time.
I don't really know what they can do about this because ultimately because we just need to develop better players and teams that know how to manage games.
It's hard to distinguish between accident and design in these things. We, for example, seemed to go through a long spell when we consistently did well at shoot-outs, even though our players weren't that good and didn't seem that mentally strong. I guess knowing you've done it before helps, but other than that it's a bit of a puzzle.
From the bits of what I saw, the two CBs were impressive, even if they did drop too deep. So I would expect lots of interest in Alfie Mawson if he has a good season for Swansea. That albino who just signed for Watford - Will Hughes? we always used to be linked with him - showed some nice skills.
I didn't see much else that impressed me. Redmond is decent enough, but he's probably the most experienced. The rest where mostly physique and pace with very little brains or technique, or the opposite in James Ward-Prowse, who has genuine quality on the ball, and can pass and cross at a very high level, but is a fucking weakling with zero pace and lost every physical battle.
The sort of player that clowns like Ryan would love.
I didn't see much else that impressed me. Redmond is decent enough, but he's probably the most experienced. The rest where mostly physique and pace with very little brains or technique, or the opposite in James Ward-Prowse, who has genuine quality on the ball, and can pass and cross at a very high level, but is a fucking weakling with zero pace and lost every physical battle.
The sort of player that clowns like Ryan would love.
England have made the final after beating Czech Republic 1-0 and likewise Portugal after beating Netherlands 1-0. Final on Saturday.
Nmecha's howler in the 89th
Best chance of the first half when Da Silva went full Roberto Carlos with an outside of the boot.
Nice goal, this was a few minutes after Nmecha (goal scorer) put the ball over an open goal from two yards!
Nmecha's howler in the 89th
Best chance of the first half when Da Silva went full Roberto Carlos with an outside of the boot.
Nice goal, this was a few minutes after Nmecha (goal scorer) put the ball over an open goal from two yards!
Young Lions record at the five tournaments in 2017.....
U17 (European Championships)
Wins: 5
Draws: 0
Defeats: 1 (after penalty shoot-out)
Final position: Final
U20 (World Cup)
Wins: 6
Draws: 1
Defeats: 0
Final position: Winner
U20 (Toulon Tournament)
Wins: 5
Draws: 0
Defeats: 0
Final position: Winner
U21 (European Championships)
Wins: 2
Draws: 1
Defeats: 1 (after penalty shoot-out)
Final position: Semi-Final
U19 (European Championships)
Wins: 4
Draws: 0
Defeats: 0
Now into the Final (Saturday)
Overall
Wins: 22
Draws: 2
Defeats: 2 (Both were actually not in-game defeats but losses on penalty shoot-outs)
2x Tournament wins (at least)
2x Final (could be another win)
1x Semi-final
0 x Defeats in 26 games after normal time
U17 (European Championships)
Wins: 5
Draws: 0
Defeats: 1 (after penalty shoot-out)
Final position: Final
U20 (World Cup)
Wins: 6
Draws: 1
Defeats: 0
Final position: Winner
U20 (Toulon Tournament)
Wins: 5
Draws: 0
Defeats: 0
Final position: Winner
U21 (European Championships)
Wins: 2
Draws: 1
Defeats: 1 (after penalty shoot-out)
Final position: Semi-Final
U19 (European Championships)
Wins: 4
Draws: 0
Defeats: 0
Now into the Final (Saturday)
Overall
Wins: 22
Draws: 2
Defeats: 2 (Both were actually not in-game defeats but losses on penalty shoot-outs)
2x Tournament wins (at least)
2x Final (could be another win)
1x Semi-final
0 x Defeats in 26 games after normal time
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