No fucker is touching Mo
Sell EVERYBODY upfront, maybe..?
- Thread starter Whaddapie
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He actually moved. You’ll get 750k.
That’s simplistic and bollicks Froggy and you know it.
The more he’s played, the less goals per minutes he’s posted.
Also, he’s been played as a traditional number 9, through the middle - not a false 9 or drifting outside - he SHOULD be scoring more.
You’re also using selective facts - Palmer has a better G/A every 71.66 mins, Watkins every 96.20 mins, Isak every 97.72 mins, Jota every 88.83 mins,
And he’s only marginally ahead of Richarlison on 104.68, Leon Baily on 100.88, Chris Wood on 104.85 and Sonnon 99.83.
Assists are interesting, but it’s padding out his stats and making them look better than they actually are.
The simple fact is, his assists make his season look better than it is - he’s not been bad - but he hasn’t been great either.
The new manager coming in is going to see the names Salah, Diaz, Nunez, Jota and Gakpo and think "great". I'm not sure it is.
Also, in terms of his usage... There's been a reason he's not been on the pitch all the time.
Darwin has to go the way of the Dodo.
Why would we talk about Darwin after that. Allison was fucking overlapping the cbs. We hadn't a fucking clue what to do. Darwin could have held the ball up better a couple times. How he performed is almost non applicable. There wasn't a football game being played while he was on the pitch. I don't know what the fuck that was.
The whole team has been lacking of late so it's no surprise that goal scorers' stats suffer too, they don't perform in a vacuum. I'm definitely not saying that Nunez has been great, we all know that's not true ... what is also not true is half the bollocks and all of the hate he receives on here.
And we were comparing our top two goal scorers (in the PL, I've not included other competitions) only to those of the other Top 4/5 teams (which is all that matters). Not the whole league, so it's not being selective (actually using Palmer is even more so since his stats look so good due to NINE penalties and one incredible 4 goal haul vs Everton. Note he didn't score in 27 games for City so maybe that is an equally valid barometer ... or maybe it's just Chelsea's tactics or maybe maturity).
From those you quoted Palmer has those 9 penalties (take those out and he's scoring below Nunez for goals, at 192 mins per goal in the PL), Isak has 4 (still above Nunez but not now by the margin given) and let's not forget that Salah's inc. 5 penalties, Saka's 5 penalties and Haaland's 4 penalties. Take those out (or conversely give them to any other players' stats e.g. Nunez or Mac, both of whom have superb penalty stats when taking them) and the whole scenario changes.
For example in all comps Palmer has 25+13 G+A (inc at least 9 penalties - I don't know how many pens he scored in other comps - and 300 mins more) to Nunez's 18+13 (no penalties). That's a totally different picture now isn't it, without pens it's 2 goals less in 300 mins more.
Jota wasn't compared because he wasn't part of the conversation (not one of the top two goals-scorers yet) though actually he has the best goal scoring (per mins) at the club, ditto G+A, but he's only played just over 1,000 mins due to injuries. G+A 89.66 vs Nunez 98.95 and Salah 82.6 (inc 5 pens, 102.29 without the pens).
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Watkins is great BTW and would be well up there in my choice to replace Salah because he contributes both goals and assists as Villa's leading goal scorer and assist maker.
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Yeah because Klopp gives one slot to Mo come rain or shine, playing well or not. If he's fit ... he starts. And Klopp's only just recently starting subbing him off at less than 75 mins.
And this is the typical hater's response (whether you are or not). Because most of the team were utterly shite but no, it was clearly Nunez's fault (he only played the last 24 mins). Despite our almost complete tactical failure.
But why did you write that since you don't seem to believe it?
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You’re absolutely all over the place here - which is so unlike you.
You’re trying to claim is not selective to select only certain players or teams to manufacture some way of pumping up Nunez performances.
Why too 2 strikers per team and why top 4 teams? Is it do you can ignore players like Isak?
You’re even at it with your Palmer didn’t score in 27 games for City - what’s that all about? I don’t even think it’s true. - he played 19 league games with a total of 489 mins game time when he aged 20 or under.
If you want a proper read of where Nunez is at, his record in the Premier League last season was a goal every 189 minutes and this season every 171 minutes - so he’s improved his scoring a bit scoring - his blended rate is a goal every 179 mins.
The thing that improved greatly is his assists, which can be deceiving, but suggest he’s still negated himself better - or we’re playing in such a way that assists are more likely to come through him as the key central striker, which has merit because we set to go direct to get the ball to the forwards quicker.
Anyway a goal every 179 minutes in the league or a goal involvement every 125 minutes.
Divock Origi had a record of scoring every 159 minutes in the Premier League or goal involvement every 121 minutes.
What that means, to break it down, is that Nunez has played slightly more minutes in the Premier League, scored less but assisted more than Lord Divock, but his overall impact is less.
So you can blabber on about top 2 strikers and ignoring outside the top 4/5 teams or teenage Cole Palmer’s stats at City or how we should ignore penalties or pretend Nunez would score all his (when he unsurprisingly blasted his one chance against the post) or even that you can pretend Darwin would score x amount of goals on a linear scale from his historical data.
Truth is, he’s contributed less than Divock Origi in the league despite having more frequent and consistent opportunities.
That's where he’s at - loveable cult hero - not “one of the best number 9’s in the world” or “better than Haaland” - just a decent player that isn’t quite at the level we need to fire us to a premiership.
I wouldn’t sell him… but neither would I be relying on him as our key striker to deliver the goals we’ll need when Salah goes.
OK point by point. The discussion was about the winning the PL so I highlighted the Top 4/5 as it's nothing to do with the rest of the PL. So that's where the comparison is - between the top two scorers for each club (I pulled out the top two because Nunez isn't regarded as our main striker). No way was I going through the whole league club by club, why would I when it's not relevant to a Top 4/5 comparison? Nothing to do with players like Palmer or Isak (really like this guy) because again, not relevant when comparing us to the other clubs in the Top 4/5.
If you don't like that stat then take it up with Who's Scored. You are the one who brought Palmer into the debate - I just pointed out that he actually doesn't even match Nunez's record without the 9 penalties. And yes of course penalties matter (and yes Nunez hit the post with his one pen for us but I believe that was his first miss in 13 or something like that, can't be arsed looking it up).
Penalties make a MASSIVE difference to goal scoring stats and it's beyond disingenuous to ignore them. Surely you can acknowledge that. Mo. would have just one goal more than Nunez in the PL without his 5 penalties (and he's missed 2) !
So definite improvement then. When considering the assists it shows how much more he's contributing to the team. Why even bring Origi into it it? He doesn't have the same influence on a match (don't anyone dare bring up the outlier that is Barca) or assists so it's a pointless reference point. And he's scored the grand total of ONE goal this season so what is all that about?
Clearly I'm not trying to make him out to be a world class striker - and I have acknowledged his poor conversion stats - I'm just trying to add some balance/stats into the Donkey Hate that pervades this forum (esp. after a match where we performed badly - even though he only played 24 mins whilst the back 5 played a game of keep ball - with some stats that prove he's not a million miles away from some, or even ahead, of others that some posters advocate (Palmer is a good example with people fawning over him at the moment, minus the pens he's level Nunez but has played more mins).
People are going to use that poor conversion stat, and to a degree it's a valid point, but only to a degree as he creates a lot himself and is often an integral part of why we create so many chances more than virtually any other team. Everyone should read the breakdown of our attack that Binny posted, though the Nunez haters will probably stop half way through as the analysis doesn't suit their rhetoric.
I genuinely don't understand your post. I don't think anything I said is at all contradictory. What did I say that I don't believe?
Ah sorry I seem to have misread your post.
Again you seem to wilfully miss half the points I’m making.
You started by asking to name a second striker in either Dngland or anywhere in Europe with better stats, then pivoted to only the top 4/5 teams when it became apparent there was a few.
Palmer gets brought up because he’s 21, in his first full season and banging them in - he’d have scored the same as Nunez without the penalties and he generally plays in a wide area, not as the central striker.
I don’t know why you think his, effectively, youth record with City is relevant - it’s not.
I brought Origin in to it / because his goals per minute record FOR LIVERPOOL in the league is better than Nunez - that’s a fact - interpret it how you like, but if your interpretation is scoring more goals in less minutes then in the pitch is not affecting play as much as Nunez, then you probably need to give your head a wobbly.
Yes the criticisms of Nunez go overboard - in the same way the praise of him goes overboard - he’s just a good player, not a great player.
His career average is a goal every 145 mins, he’s hit double figures in whatever league he’s played in 3 times, he in his prime, and he’s only ever had 1 season where his goal scoring rocketed way up to 20+ goals.
That’s not the stats of an elite goal scorer.
I also don’t get this nonsense about him not being our main striker - he’s our Number 9, holds the central role, plays more than anyone else there, is deployed as a false 9, we changed our structure and system to accommodate him and we tweaked our tactics with him in mind.
If he’s not delivering enough inbtge central role, which he isn’t, then I’m fine with putting him out wide on rotation with Diaz on the left - but we then need to bring in a proper number 9 to score the goals he can’t consistently deliver.
Either that, or we go back to Gakpo playing as more of a false 9.
It’s not hate for Nunez - it’s frustration (well, for me it is) - I said months ago if he fires up and hits a rich vein of scoring in the latter stages of the season to push him way over that 15 league goal mark, we’d win the league.
He hasn’t and we aren’t likely to - not entirely his fault, the default was Gakpo stepping up and doing it and he hasn’t either.
Nunez had one spell of good form, bookended by periods of average form and he’s likely ending the season how he started - on the bench for sporadic use.
You're wasting your time. The Nunez fan club will be setting themselves on fire outside Porto's ground when we sell him.
Fucking hell Stevie.
If you think Nunez is our main striker then this is where the conversation ends (Thank God). I've constantly said 2nd striker (which is what he is, it doesn't matter where positionally Salah plays he is our lead striker and it's beyond inane to claim it's actually Nunez) and I compared the 2 striker pairings to the other Top 4/5 teams, it's really not hard to understand. And you didn't name 2nd strikers, you named virtually all main strikers at their clubs (inc. skewed stats from the penalty takers) and then weirdly went off on a tangent and started comparing him to Origi from yesteryear - a total irrelevance to this team and this season.
As for the addiction to Nunez's conversion rate by some on here ("had Nunez's conversion rate be better we'd be top of the PL" may be factually correct but doesn't absolve others with similarly poor conversion rates over this past month, or defenders from dubious defending or midfielders going AWOL), it's the drop off of the whole team over the past month that is the prime issue, the stupid lack of concentration, low energy, poor substitutions and passes constantly going astray leading to goals, the lack of cohesion and tactical nouse that is the real culprit.
I've never claimed Nunez is the saviour or world class, I do think he is a key factor in our success this season but he is undoubtedly hated by some on here that would prefer to linger on his conversion rate and act like the 3 monkeys when it comes to stats and actual contribution.
Anyway this is more than enough debate on this - say your piece in reply and let's put this to bed until after the next game when it'll surely reappear in multiple threads.
I’m seriously confused by calling Salah our main or lead striker. He’s only been a striker for no more than a handful of games.
He’s an advanced right forward or whatever you dweebs wanna call it.
The main cusp of the Nunez hate is that he gets chances, a lot of them, and then generally fucks it up.
Don’t look at fucking spreadsheets. Go watch those chances he’s missed and look at those games. Even look at the timing of those misses. Normally they are at crucial stages of the game.
Going back to Madrid last season he scores that insane right flick through his legs. He then follows that up with a big miss. Would’ve put us 2-0 up. Sport is psychological and that miss fucked with our heads and gave Madrid hope. We could’ve and should’ve annihilated them that night. The crowd was on fire. The team looked up for it. Then we miss, they score and we folded.
My point is that he not only misses key chances but at key moments too. He doesn’t have the composure to play for us. Every goal matters when competing with the state nation. We can’t count on him.
He’s an advanced right forward or whatever you dweebs wanna call it.
The main cusp of the Nunez hate is that he gets chances, a lot of them, and then generally fucks it up.
Don’t look at fucking spreadsheets. Go watch those chances he’s missed and look at those games. Even look at the timing of those misses. Normally they are at crucial stages of the game.
Going back to Madrid last season he scores that insane right flick through his legs. He then follows that up with a big miss. Would’ve put us 2-0 up. Sport is psychological and that miss fucked with our heads and gave Madrid hope. We could’ve and should’ve annihilated them that night. The crowd was on fire. The team looked up for it. Then we miss, they score and we folded.
My point is that he not only misses key chances but at key moments too. He doesn’t have the composure to play for us. Every goal matters when competing with the state nation. We can’t count on him.
Of course he's always been our main striker, wherever he is positionally doesn't matter, he's been our main goal scorer (i.e. striker). He has been for 7 years. Was Firmino our 'main striker' because he had the #9 on his back? Salah has always been our main striker. I'm confused by anyone who doesn't understand that and tries to downplay it!
The rest isn't worth debating because it's been covered ample times. You are trying to place all the blame on the strikers whereas the defence has just as large a part to play (never mind the midfield)!
We have failed to scored in only 4 matches this season (United, Sparta, Palace and Atlanta). Theoretically if the defence had done it's job we'd have won all but those 4 matches this season.
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You’re interchanging phrases. 99% of the forum would call a striker the number 9. Through the middle. Most forward player on the pitch.
Firmino was a hybrid 9/10.
Torres a 9. Fowler a 9. Conventional strikers.
Salah is our main goal scorer. Nobody will argue. It feels like you’re trying to shoehorn Salah into a conversation about how crap Nunez is. Salah’s stats, or other players aren’t really comparable to what we are discussing. Nunez is given considerable chances. He doesn’t make good enough uses for all those chances. The arguement that he’s doing well because he has whatever G/As this season is not cutting the mustard because it’s still not good enough in terms of conversion.
There you go. Stuck on conversion rate again instead of actual goals and assists (the only numbers that truly matter). If as a team we had an average conversion rate we'd have likely 200 goals (all comps this season) which has never been achieved. Because of how we play we create umpteen chances but not often great chances and as everyone agrees this team isn't good enough yet to be a Europe dominating team so why are you (plural) expecting us to score that number of goals (we still had the most in Europe up until this month).
BTW City have had 108 Big Chances this season (compared to our 88, stat courtesy of the PL) but have only scored 4 more than us. I don't hear the same noise about City.
That said the whole attack (forwards and midfielders) has fallen off a cliff (inc. Nunez). 49 shots in the last 2 PL games for 2 goals inc. 1 penalty.
xG in the last 3 games was around 9 but we scored 2. Who missed those chances? Horrendous misses from :
Palace : Endo, Mo, Jones, Diaz, as well as Nunez (more difficult as no chance to even look at the goal, more like an overhead kick in effect).
United : Szobo & Mo.
Atalanta : Nunez, Mo (x2) and Diaz
In 2024 : 2 clean sheets in 14 matches. We've conceded in 9 consecutive PL games. We've conceded first in 14 games (Arsenal 7) in the PL. But no it's all Nunez's fault.
As I've constantly said about Nunez: he's not going to be a world class player/finisher but it's the intangibles he's often brought to the side that is in part why we've scored so many goals this season : his power to chase down lost causes, his strength on the ball, his ability to disorientate and cause disruption to an organised defence, that enables others to benefit (and Nunez-Jota-Salah the best forward line we have at present to take advantage).
If that plus his goals/assists isn't enough then maybe we should revert to a more boring, predictable, efficient formation though with fewer goals but a higher conversion rate.
No point mate - you’re not going to change my mind and I’m not going to change yours.
Which is fair enough - so we’ll respectfully leave it there and move on to the next debate - where we’re as likely to be in agreement as not.
You’ve got a hard on for goals and assists. Chances missed is a HUGE thing here. We give him more opportunities to convert chances than the others you keep mentioning. Put more resource into anything you expect bigger outcomes. That’s why a fair few on us keep banging that drum that he’s not good enough. He’s marginally close to those you mention because he gets more chances. He should be way ahead of those but isn’t.
You speak of Mo, Diaz and Jones, all of which I have said over and over again are not the standard we need and those missing such chances go some way to prove that.
You speak of those intangibles. I’m struggling to think of times where his disruption has actually won us games. I will bet good money it will be countered by all those misses he has had.
Addressing your first goal conceded comment, I would like one of the nerds to go out there and see how many times we’ve conceded a goal after one of our forward mongs have missed a chance the other end.
I’m always a little dubious about the use of assists - because generally there’s no qualitative assessment there - it can literally be given to the player that last touched the ball before someone scored worldy or a genuine bit of creative genius.
Assists can tell you a lot or they can tell you nothing - that’s not to diminish what any player posting high levels of assists has achieved - but it can get overblown too.
I can think of some really world class Mo, outside of the boot, through the eye of a needle passes that led to goals… I’m not sure I could say the same for Darwin - there’s a few where he picked out good passes - but if we’re going to use Goal Involvements to turn him into a golden hod amongst forwards - I want a little bit more qualitative info.
Assists can tell you a lot or they can tell you nothing - that’s not to diminish what any player posting high levels of assists has achieved - but it can get overblown too.
I can think of some really world class Mo, outside of the boot, through the eye of a needle passes that led to goals… I’m not sure I could say the same for Darwin - there’s a few where he picked out good passes - but if we’re going to use Goal Involvements to turn him into a golden hod amongst forwards - I want a little bit more qualitative info.
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