Salah’s future
- Thread starter rurikbird
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In an ideal world I'd sell all three of Diaz, Nunez, and Salah. Maybe even Jota too, as he can't keep fit.
However we have to replace them, and the last attackers we bought have been extremely underwhelming.
Attackers are hard to get, and if we won't to win something we need world class attackers who don't get injured much.... Easy.
I just hope we have a plan.
However we have to replace them, and the last attackers we bought have been extremely underwhelming.
Attackers are hard to get, and if we won't to win something we need world class attackers who don't get injured much.... Easy.
I just hope we have a plan.
I would be even more extreme and throw in Gakpo too. Today he showed he isn’t lethal enough to play up front for us. However, he does look like Bobby lite at times which may earn him more time.
We went extreme last summer and rightly changed out Hendo, Milner, Fabinho, Keita and Ox. Then upgraded with Mac, Slobby, Endo and Gravenberch. Give us another year with Badger coming back I can see us doing better provided they get to play their game rather than piano carriers. Why can’t we try that up top because sticking with what we have will not work. Diaz won’t finally decide to release that pass, Nunez won’t have smoothed out his vast amount of rough edges and Salah will continue to deteriorate.
Hes one of the focal points of klopp's success.
He's a club legend.
His goal scoring exploits are legendary.
However, he should have been sold last year for real good money.
That's what a smarter football team would have done.
Loyalty is a honorable quality- but if you want to win and stay competitive, you have to know when to cut ties ...
He's a club legend.
His goal scoring exploits are legendary.
However, he should have been sold last year for real good money.
That's what a smarter football team would have done.
Loyalty is a honorable quality- but if you want to win and stay competitive, you have to know when to cut ties ...
yea we need a refresh up top.
my hope is we’re scouting the next incarnation of players like adingra at brighton, guys in their early 20’s with a bit of pace, fitness and the xfactor / unpredictability or natural goal scorers. they might not be the finished article but they’ll probably contribute more over a season than a broken jota or aged Mo.
although our strategy seems to be buying a little older but still pre peak 24/25 but having 2 or 3 real threats up front is essential
my hope is we’re scouting the next incarnation of players like adingra at brighton, guys in their early 20’s with a bit of pace, fitness and the xfactor / unpredictability or natural goal scorers. they might not be the finished article but they’ll probably contribute more over a season than a broken jota or aged Mo.
although our strategy seems to be buying a little older but still pre peak 24/25 but having 2 or 3 real threats up front is essential
I can understand not selling him last summer, the money was great but the timing was all wrong. Didn't their 2nd offer come after our window was shut anyway?
This summer there can be no question, has to go.
I'd put the money to sign 2 RW's, Bakayoko from PSV and Chiesa from Juve.
This summer there can be no question, has to go.
I'd put the money to sign 2 RW's, Bakayoko from PSV and Chiesa from Juve.
Yeah, it wouldn't take much to make me sell Gak. The only thing is we do need bench players.
If we have a enough money for a complete rebuild then great, however Nunez cost 70m, your fella at United cost something similar. Gak was 40m and these players are all rough as fuck. To replace our entire attack is going to cost stupid money...even fucking Solanke is being talked about as an 60m-80m player. I know we are all in love with the idea of getting a couple of cheap unknown players from Brazil and them all becoming world beaters, but how many times has that strategy worked?
Not to mention we need a centre back, a holding midfielder, and maybe even a left back.
Doing wholesale changes would be dependent on what we raise. In order I’d like to see go:
1. Salah
2. Nunez
3. Diaz
4. Jota
5. Gakpo
As much as some on here would like to ridicule me, I’d throw in Danns. Fuck it. Sink or swim lad. Just give him a go.
1. Salah
2. Nunez
3. Diaz
4. Jota
5. Gakpo
As much as some on here would like to ridicule me, I’d throw in Danns. Fuck it. Sink or swim lad. Just give him a go.
I voted sell but it depends on Mo's willingness to accept a lesser role. Based on today's strop, it can only be sell. Otherwise, I'm happy either way. We're not getting a life-changing fee for him this summer.
Sell. I maintain keeping him last summer made sense, even for title challenge this year. But new coach, new regime, new start. The attack needs restructuring and he remains a sellable assett we can utilise. Getting him off the wages will also help in the contract negotiations for the likes of Trent.
Here's why I'm on the fence. I'm assuming Mo's awful form post-AFCON is a temporary thing, not his new permanent level (if it is, we should definitely sell him – but I think it's likely that after a good pre-season he'll be back to his previous early season level). These things happen, even great players go through bad spells and you can understand how Mo doesn't have an experience dealing with an injury, because he's always been fit.
There are 2 arguments for keeping him: one is his importance to our attacking play. This graph illustrates it well:
I think this is pretty self-explanatory – none of our current attackers come close to Mo's output in goals and chance creation. Diaz is worth 75-100M in the current market – and he's not even in the same stratosphere, despite playing a lot more games. Who can we buy that will replace what we'd lose without Mo?
The 2nd argument has less to do with statistical output and more style of play. Let's say we sell Mo and replace him with the best young talent we can buy – maybe Summerville or Johan Bakayoko. Most young wingers on the market seem to be kind of a version of the same player, like a mass produced shirt at a supermarket: they are fast and powerful, know a few tricks that reliably get them to the byline and can typically shoot into the far corner with their strong foot – but there is kind of a ceiling to how far an attacker like that will take you. Look at Doku at City – I actually wanted us to sign him, but now I'm thinking players like that are kind of boring, even when they are effective. If we're buying someone with a view of not just supplementing our group of attackers, but replacing our best winger of last 20 years, they have to be one-of-a-kind as a footballer and with character to match.
So that's where I stand at the moment. If Edwards can unearth a younger version of Sadio or Mo – great! But just replacing even an aging expensive great player with a young expensive probably non-great player... I might just prefer to stick with the aging Mo and live with his flaws. This is partly why I want to see Salah play in the last 3 matches – he might have a problem with Klopp, but any information to be gleaned about how he might relate to post-Klopp Liverpool will be key to deciding his future.
There are 2 arguments for keeping him: one is his importance to our attacking play. This graph illustrates it well:
I think this is pretty self-explanatory – none of our current attackers come close to Mo's output in goals and chance creation. Diaz is worth 75-100M in the current market – and he's not even in the same stratosphere, despite playing a lot more games. Who can we buy that will replace what we'd lose without Mo?
The 2nd argument has less to do with statistical output and more style of play. Let's say we sell Mo and replace him with the best young talent we can buy – maybe Summerville or Johan Bakayoko. Most young wingers on the market seem to be kind of a version of the same player, like a mass produced shirt at a supermarket: they are fast and powerful, know a few tricks that reliably get them to the byline and can typically shoot into the far corner with their strong foot – but there is kind of a ceiling to how far an attacker like that will take you. Look at Doku at City – I actually wanted us to sign him, but now I'm thinking players like that are kind of boring, even when they are effective. If we're buying someone with a view of not just supplementing our group of attackers, but replacing our best winger of last 20 years, they have to be one-of-a-kind as a footballer and with character to match.
So that's where I stand at the moment. If Edwards can unearth a younger version of Sadio or Mo – great! But just replacing even an aging expensive great player with a young expensive probably non-great player... I might just prefer to stick with the aging Mo and live with his flaws. This is partly why I want to see Salah play in the last 3 matches – he might have a problem with Klopp, but any information to be gleaned about how he might relate to post-Klopp Liverpool will be key to deciding his future.
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I believ that a lot of the lack of goals stem from playing Salah. These days he offers so little, even assist: doesn't take alot from defenders to have him in thier pocket.
I think the combo for Nunez,Jota and Daiz uo front is the best combo of our attackers now. Problem being that Jota has become a bit of a sick note.
and Gakpo is another Lallana, Tinkle toes, easy on the eye, but no real end product.
So for me it would be...
1. Salah
2. Gakpo
3 .Jota
No Nunez top 3? He’s been coached by the best player improving man on the planet and not progressed at all.
Whilst i lay into Gakpo, I think he has the intelligence to bridge the gap between midfield and attack. I’d sell if we end up going to using Elliott, Mac, Gravy or even Carvalho in that gap.
I’d piss on his boots.
@rurikbird this is why we sell. He still has value.Here's why I'm on the fence. I'm assuming Mo's awful form post-AFCON is a temporary thing, not his new permanent level (if it is, we should definitely sell him – but I think it's likely that after a good pre-season he'll be back to his previous early season level). These things happen, even great players go through bad spells and you can understand how Mo doesn't have an experience dealing with an injury, because he's always been fit.
There are 2 arguments for keeping him: one is his importance to our attacking play. This graph illustrates it well:
I think this is pretty self-explanatory – none of our current attackers come close to Mo's output in goals and chance creation. Diaz is worth 75-100M in the current market – and he's not even in the same stratosphere, despite playing a lot more games. Who can we buy that will replace what we'd lose without Mo?
The 2nd argument has less to do with statistical output and more style of play. Let's say we sell Mo and replace him with the best young talent we can buy – maybe Summerville or Johan Bakayoko. Most young wingers on the market seem to be kind of a version of the same player, like a mass produced shirt at a supermarket: they are fast and powerful, know a few tricks that reliably get them to the byline and can typically shoot into the far corner with their strong foot – but there is kind of a ceiling to how far an attacker like that will take you. Look at Doku at City – I actually wanted us to sign him, but now I'm thinking players like that are kind of boring, even when they are effective. If we're buying someone with a view of not just supplementing our group of attackers, but replacing our best winger of last 20 years, they have to be more bespoke than that.
So that's where I stand at the moment. If Edwards can unearth a younger version of Sadio or Mo – great, sign them up, of course! But just replacing even an aging expensive great player with a young expensive probably non-great player... I might just prefer to stick with the aging Mo and live with his flaws. This is partly why I want to see Salah play in the last 3 matches – he might have a problem with Klopp, but any information to be gleaned about how he might relate to post-Klopp Liverpool will be key to deciding his future.
The FFP rule will change this soon, but currently it’s still possible to cash in
I can see why the data would suggest keeping him, but what the data isn’t showing is the weighting from first half to second half of the season.Here's why I'm on the fence. I'm assuming Mo's awful form post-AFCON is a temporary thing, not his new permanent level (if it is, we should definitely sell him – but I think it's likely that after a good pre-season he'll be back to his previous early season level). These things happen, even great players go through bad spells and you can understand how Mo doesn't have an experience dealing with an injury, because he's always been fit.
There are 2 arguments for keeping him: one is his importance to our attacking play. This graph illustrates it well:
I think this is pretty self-explanatory – none of our current attackers come close to Mo's output in goals and chance creation. Diaz is worth 75-100M in the current market – and he's not even in the same stratosphere, despite playing a lot more games. Who can we buy that will replace what we'd lose without Mo?
The 2nd argument has less to do with statistical output and more style of play. Let's say we sell Mo and replace him with the best young talent we can buy – maybe Summerville or Johan Bakayoko. Most young wingers on the market seem to be kind of a version of the same player, like a mass produced shirt at a supermarket: they are fast and powerful, know a few tricks that reliably get them to the byline and can typically shoot into the far corner with their strong foot – but there is kind of a ceiling to how far an attacker like that will take you. Look at Doku at City – I actually wanted us to sign him, but now I'm thinking players like that are kind of boring, even when they are effective. If we're buying someone with a view of not just supplementing our group of attackers, but replacing our best winger of last 20 years, they have to be more bespoke than that.
So that's where I stand at the moment. If Edwards can unearth a younger version of Sadio or Mo – great, sign them up, of course! But just replacing even an aging expensive great player with a young expensive probably non-great player... I might just prefer to stick with the aging Mo and live with his flaws. This is partly why I want to see Salah play in the last 3 matches – he might have a problem with Klopp, but any information to be gleaned about how he might relate to post-Klopp Liverpool will be key to deciding his future.
I don’t have the data, just my eyes and a hunch that his data first half massively exceeds second half over the last few seasons.
Watching him play now is saddening. Like a boxer who has had a couple fights too many. It won’t improve getting another season out of him.
I worry we won’t get any suitable offers and he sticks round like a bad smell for another year.
I don’t disagree with you, mate - his general play post AFCON has been atrocious; I even started a thread questioning whether he’s all right. His bad form + pressure on Klopp to always play him (so he can try to play himself into form) was one of the major reasons, if not the main reason, for our final stretch collapse.
But on the other hand if he is back to his Fall form, even though you can still find fault with some aspects of his play, statistically at least he’s our best attacker by a distance and he provides a touch of class others might lack. So I think a decision whether to sell him would need to be considered carefully. This is Mo Salah, he has earned his reputation - you don’t just casually dismiss someone like that because the last few weeks were bad.
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I don't see how it's supportable to wonder whether his current form is "his form" or not, as though it's an aberration. It's three years now of him being utterly fucking shit second half of the season. Hes always had purple patches. If he was capable of hitting one now, we'd be in a different position but it isn't there. This pattern of a sharp fall off IS the norm, it's just getting worse. It's not a great trajectory to have for a player who is paid to be a difference maker.
Now, when he's not scoring, he isn't doing anything. His floor is lower, his overall cost to the team is more, and his ceiling is lower too.
I wanted to sell him before last season. I don't think we will get much for him now. There could be a value where they decide he's not worth selling, of course, but the corrolary is that he has to be able to be used selectively.
He hasn't reacted well to that ever. He's the main man. He had a team designed around him, with world class forwards moving to give him space. Now he can't be that guy any more because his speed has left and instead of being humble and working, and being angry at himself, he pulled that disgraceful shit today.
Somewhere, mane is thinking "there he is, that's the Salah I know."
If we are going to seriously talk about fall Salah and spring Salah like we are interior decorators, then we should be able to pay him accordingly. As salah ages, fall Salah is less and less remarkable, and spring Salah gets more and more playtime.
Could he have been affected by injury? Sure. Maybe he'll recover a bit of power. You are looking at the future though. He's been getting worse and worse. That's the trajectory. It isn't hard to see.
Now, when he's not scoring, he isn't doing anything. His floor is lower, his overall cost to the team is more, and his ceiling is lower too.
I wanted to sell him before last season. I don't think we will get much for him now. There could be a value where they decide he's not worth selling, of course, but the corrolary is that he has to be able to be used selectively.
He hasn't reacted well to that ever. He's the main man. He had a team designed around him, with world class forwards moving to give him space. Now he can't be that guy any more because his speed has left and instead of being humble and working, and being angry at himself, he pulled that disgraceful shit today.
Somewhere, mane is thinking "there he is, that's the Salah I know."
If we are going to seriously talk about fall Salah and spring Salah like we are interior decorators, then we should be able to pay him accordingly. As salah ages, fall Salah is less and less remarkable, and spring Salah gets more and more playtime.
Could he have been affected by injury? Sure. Maybe he'll recover a bit of power. You are looking at the future though. He's been getting worse and worse. That's the trajectory. It isn't hard to see.
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I’m more towards Rurik’s position.
I don’t think we will sell and I’m not sure we should.
Let me qualify that a little bit, because I think it’ll depend on whether Mo actually wants to leave and if a suitable offer is actually made.
Starting with Mo - I believe he wants another crack at the Champions League, so if he does move, I think it’s going to have to be to a club that could offer a realistic chance of that - I don’t think he wants to go to Saudi or wants to go to a “lower club”.
That limits the possibilities of where he could go and given he’s unlikely to want to go for a reduced salary, that limits things ever further.
What is likely to happen there is the “Mane scenario” whereby the offer we get isn’t going to be much - I’d be surprised if anyone other than the Saudi’s will offer or than £50m for him.
If the Saudi’s come in with a sizeable offer and Mo indicates he’s willing to go - then he’s gone, no question.
I just don’t think they will and I think Movwill play out his last year and leave on a free because I can’t see Edwards matching the salary offers he’ll get elsewhere to sign on a free - given his age.
I’ve said this a gazillion times - I’m fine with him staying and leaving on a free - it’s a scenario we will or should have planned for. His goals have basically paved the way for our Champions League return, so it’s been worth keeping him this season, in my opinion.
He suits Slot’s set up and we’ll get another season of 20 goals and 15 assists in the league - if we keep him - which could make all the difference in Slits first season.
The key for me is Edwards identifying who we can bring in, without necessarily spending a huge transfer fee and initial salary on - at some point over the next year.
Last year we talked about how high the tipping point was to sell - like was it £150m or more.
This year, I think you have to go the other way and decide what’s the least amount you’d accept for him.
So fir ne, unless he specifically says he wants to move or the Saudi’s offer big bucks and he accepts that move, I’d keep him.
I don’t think we will sell and I’m not sure we should.
Let me qualify that a little bit, because I think it’ll depend on whether Mo actually wants to leave and if a suitable offer is actually made.
Starting with Mo - I believe he wants another crack at the Champions League, so if he does move, I think it’s going to have to be to a club that could offer a realistic chance of that - I don’t think he wants to go to Saudi or wants to go to a “lower club”.
That limits the possibilities of where he could go and given he’s unlikely to want to go for a reduced salary, that limits things ever further.
What is likely to happen there is the “Mane scenario” whereby the offer we get isn’t going to be much - I’d be surprised if anyone other than the Saudi’s will offer or than £50m for him.
If the Saudi’s come in with a sizeable offer and Mo indicates he’s willing to go - then he’s gone, no question.
I just don’t think they will and I think Movwill play out his last year and leave on a free because I can’t see Edwards matching the salary offers he’ll get elsewhere to sign on a free - given his age.
I’ve said this a gazillion times - I’m fine with him staying and leaving on a free - it’s a scenario we will or should have planned for. His goals have basically paved the way for our Champions League return, so it’s been worth keeping him this season, in my opinion.
He suits Slot’s set up and we’ll get another season of 20 goals and 15 assists in the league - if we keep him - which could make all the difference in Slits first season.
The key for me is Edwards identifying who we can bring in, without necessarily spending a huge transfer fee and initial salary on - at some point over the next year.
Last year we talked about how high the tipping point was to sell - like was it £150m or more.
This year, I think you have to go the other way and decide what’s the least amount you’d accept for him.
So fir ne, unless he specifically says he wants to move or the Saudi’s offer big bucks and he accepts that move, I’d keep him.
I think it's mental to look at a player and say, well, they're scoring x amount of goals, there's no other way to get those goals and they are uniquely capable of providing them.
We have been suffering from not replacing old Salah WITH new Salah playing. He goes for free in a year and we are fine with it then, but we aren't fine with it now for money?
The tipping point wasn't 150 million then, it's nowhere near that now. Id take 40 million for him, get rid of his wages and draw a line under the old era. It's happening anyway.
We have been suffering from not replacing old Salah WITH new Salah playing. He goes for free in a year and we are fine with it then, but we aren't fine with it now for money?
The tipping point wasn't 150 million then, it's nowhere near that now. Id take 40 million for him, get rid of his wages and draw a line under the old era. It's happening anyway.
I don’t recall noticing that pattern. Last season he scored or assisted in 9 out of the last 10 games of the season - his most productive run of the season. The season before it was 3 goals and 3 assists in the last 10 - maybe not great by his standards, but hardly awful. This season was the first time I remember him being utterly shit in the final stretch.
Have to say looking at this graph, Diaz is probably the one with the strongest case to sell - statistically the least efficient of our attackers and with the biggest resale value.
Which is somewhat unfortunate and doesn’t tell a full story - Diaz really played better in the last month and was often the only one who looked like he cares. My stance is this: one of Diaz or Nunez has to leave. They exacerbate each other’s bad qualities and we simply cannot afford to keep both.
To put it another way with the goal thing. Watch his goals from four years ago, and think, oh, we can score that sort of goal with someone else or create other similar goals. You'll feel like an idiot.
This year? Please.
Now, some buy the "Salah has evolved" rather than thinking he's just declined and is operating where he can. I think teams adapted to some of the assists he was making, by ceasing to respect his pace and getting closer to him when he receives the ball. You started seeing him get bodied and make bad first touches, at best playing it back to defense and starting the cycle again.
He used to be able to threaten both things: laying it off, or turning and going but now the latter is a bluff. In addition, he has a lovely pass on him, especially inside out, but if he is to operate in those places, his lack of pressing is actually more impactful, not less. For all his evolution, his work as an outlet ball dropping deep with back to goal is nowhere near good enough, and nowhere near as useful as when he could just run with it and stretch play, let alone even break through.
This year? Please.
Now, some buy the "Salah has evolved" rather than thinking he's just declined and is operating where he can. I think teams adapted to some of the assists he was making, by ceasing to respect his pace and getting closer to him when he receives the ball. You started seeing him get bodied and make bad first touches, at best playing it back to defense and starting the cycle again.
He used to be able to threaten both things: laying it off, or turning and going but now the latter is a bluff. In addition, he has a lovely pass on him, especially inside out, but if he is to operate in those places, his lack of pressing is actually more impactful, not less. For all his evolution, his work as an outlet ball dropping deep with back to goal is nowhere near good enough, and nowhere near as useful as when he could just run with it and stretch play, let alone even break through.
Good point about lack of pressing - especially as this is a key trait for Slot. I wonder what he thinks… I’m truly on the fence.
I don't think Saudi are going to offer up the money this season, and I'm not sure who will come for him. He may be here anyway.
If he is there needs to be a reckoning. He can't play in Europe and the league every week through a season unless for some reason you can figure out a way where he doesn't have to defend much.
If he is there needs to be a reckoning. He can't play in Europe and the league every week through a season unless for some reason you can figure out a way where he doesn't have to defend much.
View: https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1784297186911465615
Don’t think I need to do a poll on this - Piers can fuck off.
I honestly don’t think we will get any offers.
Obviously we should keep him.
He’s our best attacker by a country fucking mile even with his slow decline.
He’s our best attacker by a country fucking mile even with his slow decline.
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