…unadulterated?
Pre Match - Spurs (A) - Sat 17:30
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I doubt they'll give us everything - they'll probably *have* to scrub something to protect themselves
Even better. During the match fixing trial we can put Webb on the stand, make a big show of submitting audio logs into evidence, declare to the court that our next witnesses will be sound engineers O'Malley and Rodriguez, and then we put it to Webb that he doctored the audio, cut the on field refs loose, and ordered the cover up.
Maybe Jones has his red card rescinded as part of the fallout of all of this attention on VAR.
Small consolation, but could throw us a bone
Small consolation, but could throw us a bone
The club has gotten it now. Will be interesting to hear once its public.
The PGMOL and common sense don't really go together. So expect a 3 game ban.
This was 100% how I felt then and now.
Soon as I saw it, thought is a goal then I thought commentators are saying it’s not and also why didn’t they draw lines? Guess defo not then, then there was nothing further at half time so what do I know, can’t have been a goal then. Now I don’t a trust a lot of them, keen to move on but feels like it’s not just one dumb one dopey cunt involved here.
Actually I would think it would work the other way as they won't want to look like they are trying to make up for their mistake and being soft on us so I think there isn't a hope in hell they will overturn it now
4 game for a frivolous appeal.
Fruit from the poison tree at this point though isn’t it? England has been shown to be incompetent at best. Hard to look at his other critical moments and give him the benefit of the doubt.
FROM THE ATHLETIC TODAY
PGMOL is big on optics. There is a reason, for example, Michael Oliver, its leading referee, is not allowed to officiate matches involving Newcastle United, the club he supports — or indeed their fierce rivals Sunderland.
It’s nothing to do with trust or the idea that his allegiance might get in the way of integrity. It’s all to do with optics. PGMOL decided long ago it would be unfair to put referees in a position where they might be accused of a vested interest. The job is already hard enough — and the accusations of bias or agenda vehement and wild enough — without putting officials in charge of games involving their favourite team.
So why on earth, in an era when two of the Premier League’s pre-eminent clubs are owned by the vice president of the United Arab Emirates and the sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia respectively, would the PGMOL allow its leading match officials to take lucrative assignments in the UAE Pro League and the Saudi Pro League?
The optics? Not great. Everyone knows that Sheikh Mansour, vice-president and deputy prime minister of the UAE, owns Manchester City. Less well known is that the UAE Football Association has held talks with City Football Group chief executive Ferran Soriano about a “framework of joint cooperation” and that the UAE Pro League’s main sponsor is the Abu Dhabi National Oil Company (ADNOC), whose board members include City chairman Khaldoon Al-Mubarak.
In that context, allowing a group of PGMOL officials to fly to the UAE last week to take charge of a match between Sharjah and Al-Ain — Oliver as referee, Stuart Burt and Cook as assistants, England as VAR — looks inadvisable in the extreme. Not because of doubts about integrity among the officials or the authorities in the UAE, but because having referees on the payroll of another league, with close links to the ownership of Premier League clubs, inevitably brings an extra level of scrutiny that match officials really could do without.
State ownership has brought so many unwanted complications and entanglements into football, but this is one area where the game’s authorities have the opportunity to respond with a polite no — which is exactly what the PGMOL should have done when receiving requests for their referees to work in the UAE and Saudi Arabia.
Webb has supported the principle of Premier League referees taking overseas assignments, believing they will be better for the experience of working in the UAE, or in Saudi Arabia, as Oliver, Burt, England and Simon Bennett did for a match between Al Nassr and Al Hilal in April — or in Super League Greece, as Craig Pawson did last May, or Japan’s J1 League, as Andrew Madley did in June — and for the increased international exposure.
Beyond that, having worked for both the Saudi Arabian Football Federation and Major League Soccer, Webb has been keen to strengthen links between the PGMOL and other refereeing bodies.
Surely that requires an urgent rethink. It is one thing for Oliver and his team to take charge of a Champions League match in Europe on a Tuesday or Wednesday night and then a Premier League game at the weekend. It is quite another to do so in the UAE on a Thursday night, take an eight-hour flight back on the Friday and then find themselves on VAR duty (or, in Oliver’s case, fourth-official duty) the following day.
Even without the uncomfortable question of being paid by authorities close to Manchester City’s owners — or in the case of Saudi Arabia, Newcastle United’s owners — that itinerary seems problematic.
PGMOL is big on optics. There is a reason, for example, Michael Oliver, its leading referee, is not allowed to officiate matches involving Newcastle United, the club he supports — or indeed their fierce rivals Sunderland.
It’s nothing to do with trust or the idea that his allegiance might get in the way of integrity. It’s all to do with optics. PGMOL decided long ago it would be unfair to put referees in a position where they might be accused of a vested interest. The job is already hard enough — and the accusations of bias or agenda vehement and wild enough — without putting officials in charge of games involving their favourite team.
So why on earth, in an era when two of the Premier League’s pre-eminent clubs are owned by the vice president of the United Arab Emirates and the sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia respectively, would the PGMOL allow its leading match officials to take lucrative assignments in the UAE Pro League and the Saudi Pro League?
The optics? Not great. Everyone knows that Sheikh Mansour, vice-president and deputy prime minister of the UAE, owns Manchester City. Less well known is that the UAE Football Association has held talks with City Football Group chief executive Ferran Soriano about a “framework of joint cooperation” and that the UAE Pro League’s main sponsor is the Abu Dhabi National Oil Company (ADNOC), whose board members include City chairman Khaldoon Al-Mubarak.
In that context, allowing a group of PGMOL officials to fly to the UAE last week to take charge of a match between Sharjah and Al-Ain — Oliver as referee, Stuart Burt and Cook as assistants, England as VAR — looks inadvisable in the extreme. Not because of doubts about integrity among the officials or the authorities in the UAE, but because having referees on the payroll of another league, with close links to the ownership of Premier League clubs, inevitably brings an extra level of scrutiny that match officials really could do without.
State ownership has brought so many unwanted complications and entanglements into football, but this is one area where the game’s authorities have the opportunity to respond with a polite no — which is exactly what the PGMOL should have done when receiving requests for their referees to work in the UAE and Saudi Arabia.
Webb has supported the principle of Premier League referees taking overseas assignments, believing they will be better for the experience of working in the UAE, or in Saudi Arabia, as Oliver, Burt, England and Simon Bennett did for a match between Al Nassr and Al Hilal in April — or in Super League Greece, as Craig Pawson did last May, or Japan’s J1 League, as Andrew Madley did in June — and for the increased international exposure.
Beyond that, having worked for both the Saudi Arabian Football Federation and Major League Soccer, Webb has been keen to strengthen links between the PGMOL and other refereeing bodies.
Surely that requires an urgent rethink. It is one thing for Oliver and his team to take charge of a Champions League match in Europe on a Tuesday or Wednesday night and then a Premier League game at the weekend. It is quite another to do so in the UAE on a Thursday night, take an eight-hour flight back on the Friday and then find themselves on VAR duty (or, in Oliver’s case, fourth-official duty) the following day.
Even without the uncomfortable question of being paid by authorities close to Manchester City’s owners — or in the case of Saudi Arabia, Newcastle United’s owners — that itinerary seems problematic.
Well, that would be alarming, but we've seen all the audio and video of the communications from the thorough and transparent post mortem of this debacle, in a timely manner, in the clear light of day. Since the event and the subsequent decisions spanned a matter of minutes and are simple for anyone to understand, we've digested this information and the improvements to process, adherence and accountability that have now been implemented. It doesn't make the actual event any prettier, but at least there isn't the stench of corruption born out of insularity.
I just don't see how we can now sustain any paranoia about the event.
I just don't see how we can now sustain any paranoia about the event.
It’s happening currently anyway, so nothing different.
Optics...
But they allow both Tierney and Taylor to referee Liverpool games, despite being from Manchester.
So.... I guess it's one rule for Oliver, another for....
I know Tony Barrett has done some piece on refereeing decisions based on where the refs from. Apparently found that refs from manchester are favourable to us (than other refs) when we're home, but more strict (than other refs) when we're away.
To me that just shows referees are mentally frail and pressured by the crowd
To me that just shows referees are mentally frail and pressured by the crowd
We don't to my knowledge have the audio to prove that was actually what was said. and of course saying "Check Complete" gives them the option of corruptly fixing a result ta UaE mates.
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If I could like this twice I would. I cannot understand how the rest of this forum can't see it. Or am I missing something.
Whoever the VAR is looks bent as fuck here, the Replay Operator is literally begging him to delay and VAR man is just dismissing it. Hard to watch that an not think theres an agenda.
Based on that video it's just one man, whoever "VAR" is. Game should have been stopped and rolled back, but he wouldn't pass the message on.
And just remember they gave United a penalty after full time, it's bent as fuck.
Harsher measures need to be taken against the VAR officials involved surely. Them being removed from the fixtures this weekend (and the other ones last weekend) doesn't sound like a punishment to me. If I made a monumental fuck up in work I doubt my boss would say that's not acceptable so we're punishing you with the rest of the week off on full pay.
Also if that's the footage they saw on their monitors it clearly states on the top of the screen 'checking disallowed goal- offside' so how can they possibly have misinterpreted that?
Also if that's the footage they saw on their monitors it clearly states on the top of the screen 'checking disallowed goal- offside' so how can they possibly have misinterpreted that?
It's not just one scapegoat they're all bent. Simple! Damage control. Pacify the unwashed and move on.
Nothing to see here.
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