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Mane's Form..

Discussion in 'The Football Forum' started by 6TimesaRed, Aug 28, 2021.

  1. Frogfish

    Frogfish Gone to Redcafe Member

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    Yesterday he gave the ball away 10 times from 40 passes. As you said that's not effective and I'm certain Jones and Minamino, who have better technical skills, wouldn't be so wasteful. So then it comes down, not to pace, but better effectiveness in creation / finishing. Mane is clearly better when on form but we are persisting with him when Minamino (in pre-season) and Jones (last season) have proven skills in these areas.

    Mane has often been frustrating in going down trying to win FKs, even with little or no contact, but he's taking it to a new level over the past year, when he's losing a duel, and referees are now rightfully ignoring him. Staying on his feet would help us more than having a player on the deck for no reason.

    He hasn't scored against a top team since Chelsea early Oct 2020 (pre his corona infection) unless you count Everton (first match on return, 17-10-20) or Leipzig (10th March). Is long CV affecting him? I'd suggest the club know best in this regard because obviously his training stats would show it yet no mention has been made. If it is then you'd expect Klopp to have made changes until he's over it.

    That said he still had 50% goals/assists stat last season (16+9 from 48 matches) so he's far from a liability. It's more a case of, could we do better with someone else in that position?

    Overall this seems more like Klopp trying to play Mane into form and not hit his confidence. Is that better for us long term? That will depend on if Mane regains his former effectiveness, but could lead to more dropped points in the short-term. This has now been more than a season of (mostly) mediocrity with barely the odd flashes here and there of the old Mane.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
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  2. Gary25

    Gary25 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely love Mane, he's been nothing short of sensational for us since he joined in 2016 but it's not good his current form - a continuation of majority of last season if we're being honest.

    The main problem is he appears to have 'lost his legs' so to speak. That burst of pace and mobility has disappeared out of his game and it's quite sad/painful to watch because those were arguably his greatest assets. Don't really know what the solution is but it is of genuine concern now.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2021
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  3. Dreambeliever

    Dreambeliever From Doubter to Believer -Cashed out to Cashed Up Member

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    I’ve always been a massive Mane fan and at a time had him as more important than Salah. He was poor against Chelsea but let’s not right him off just yet.
    It’s still early in the season and he could have heavy legs from pre season.
     
  4. Frogfish

    Frogfish Gone to Redcafe Member

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    It isn't just the start of this season ... this is a continuation of what we saw last season. And that has SFA to do with heavy legs - unless he is suffering from Long Covid and as I said, the medical/coaching team should know that should it be the case.
     
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  5. doctor_mac

    doctor_mac My cowboy name is Garland Justice Moderator

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    We have seen dips in form from Mane before over the years. And the issue is being able to push him to get back to his best. I really don't think he's a spent force. In an ideal world, Ox could have brought something to the table in this position as back up, but lets face it, an out of form Mane would still probably be much more effective. Similarly, I can't see Jones being as effective there either. Our only choice, it seems to me, is to play Jota instead and bring back Bobby in the middle if Mane continues not to produce.
     
  6. StevieM

    StevieM SCM's resident Beer Nazi, Wine Snob & Comic Geek Honorary Member

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    Minamino - maybe we should try him in the left sided attacking midfield position - sort of the mirror of Harvey’s role - where we’ve played Kieta & Henderson.

    Might work against deep lying numbers in defence.

    Leaves us exposed at the back - however, if it’s Virg and Matip, with Fabs in front and Alison sweeping in behind and the opposition are lumping it up to a lone striker- I fancy out chances.

    That’s probs were Gomez pace is handy.

    Kieta is still probably our best option in that left attacking mid role. Well.... on paper he is.... and not the paper he seems to be made out of.

    Actually - I’m at the point were I’d give Origi a run of games through the centre - fuck sticking him on in a wide role - stand on the sideline with a cricket bat and tell him he’s getting his legs busted unless he puts in a shift.
     
  7. keniget

    keniget Part of the Furniture Member

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    And this is the problem with having no credible backup / alternative options in the squad. You're left with some pretty undesirable options.

    Klopp is not going to take the time to play Jones or Minamino out there over Mane because the risk / reward just doesn't add up. He'll continue to try and play Mane into form.

    We used to have the same problem with Firmino until we got Jota.
     
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  8. darkstarexodus

    darkstarexodus Very Well-Known Member

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    ....in a negative 4-G turn....
    Yep. We can handle one of our forwards off the boil, which has been Bobby for God knows how long - but we can't handle two. Our squad options are such a drop off.

    But Mane is really offering not much at the moment. And by "at the moment", I mean for a good year or so.
     
  9. Red Bird

    Red Bird Very Active Member

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    He was, together with Henderson, so poor with the ball that he could have been a Chelsea player. I was hoping that Klopp would be radical enough to shift Elliott to the left and bring Keita in to the central midfield. Fat chance ...
     
  10. FreshRed

    FreshRed Very Active Member

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    I think the problem is that Mané is going to have to adjust his game to be effective, as many (not all) players need to do as they get older.

    While his finishing is really, really frustrating, I think the big issue is that he is struggling to get past players, find any pass, and running into dead ends. He has either lost some pace or become too predictable and his unpredictability used to be an asset.

    When those improve, I think that will do wonders for his confidence and hos impact.

    But, he gets full credit for effort, consistent tracking back, pressing, and getting into spaces to receive the ball. The problems start when he receives it.

    On the other hand, I think Salah has changed his game this year. His increased awareness of his teammates, and frequently using them, even inside the box, has made him much less predictable than a left-footed shot EVERY time. The quality of our opportunities down the right has really improved and I think he deserves some credit for TAA‘s amazing form.
     
  11. Mamma Mia

    Mamma Mia Head Chef Administrator

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    I agree, it would be stupidly wrong of us to right him off just yet.
     
  12. the count

    the count SCM's least favourite muppet Honorary Member

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    There's nothing left to say.
     
  13. momoWASboss

    momoWASboss If you take me seriously then you’re an idiot Member

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    His finishing has been atrocious for 18 months. I said the end of last season I’d ship him out for the right money. I’ve not changed my mind.
     
  14. TheRedCrusade

    TheRedCrusade Active Member

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    This will be Klopps biggest test. Klopp in general and then his team at Liverpool have to invest in Mane to get as much as possible out of him. They are known for improving players by leaps and bounds. Mane is not exactly young as to be taught few football tricks. But in my opinion, even some subtle changes to his game can bring back the old Mane.
     
  15. RedStar

    RedStar Well-Known Member

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    Despite the very late goal against a well beaten Leeds team I thought that game was the best illustration yet of where he's fallen away. He was snatching horribly at good chances which is a tell tale sign of low confidence, but as others have mentioned the burst of acceleration that made him so lethal in one v one situations is gone. He's either carrying an long term injury and it's limiting him or he's lost a step. He will either need to adapt his game to play a different role long term or put some serious rehab work into rebuilding his body.
     
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  16. Brizzle

    Brizzle Very Well-Known Member

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    The positive for me is that he still gets in good positions and finds space, so those instincts are still sharp. His finishing and decision making have been poor. I feel he needs a game where he bangs in 2 or more to really get his confidence back. Scoring in alternate games doesn't seem to have quite got him there yet.

    I still think he's brilliant, and he'll be back at some point winning us games on his own.
     
  17. Frogfish

    Frogfish Gone to Redcafe Member

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    Is it confidence? Everyone keeps saying so however he then goes and scores ... but his issues don't get any better. I'm not so sure it's confidence at all, it's that Mane is a streaky player and a lot of his goals are a result of percentages based on his positioning and the sheer number of shots. @King Binny anything on Mane's historical vs present xG mate?
     
  18. Donavan Ried

    Donavan Ried Alive and still kicking, Just Member

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    Excellent post...You have got this 100% right
     
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  19. King Binny

    King Binny Part of the Furniture Honorary Member

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    Here you go, mate. xG and xA wise, he has been consistent over the past couple of seasons. Perhaps "overperforming" in 18/19 and 19/20 goal scoring wise makes his underperformance last season even more visible? xG per 90 sec so far is impressive (if only he has taken/finished off his chances).

    https://understat.com/player/838

    mane.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  20. Frogfish

    Frogfish Gone to Redcafe Member

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    Excellent - Cheers mate !!

    It's so early in the season that it's difficult to draw any conclusions. However looking at last season and this it's clear he's still getting into the position to score (as per the consensus on here) but again as we've seen his conversion rate is way below his Xg, last season especially poor but still plenty of time to turn it around this so long as he doesn't continue the trend (which is the worrying aspect).

    Of course it's also worth noting that his goal return has been 10-13 for every season bar our two cup / title winning seasons. We are going to need him to return to those figures.

    The last two seasons we've seen him excel in the number of Xa though. So although combined (Xg + Xa) he's a little under so far in 20/21 these are good signs for the rest of the season if he can get back to those figures.
     

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