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Liverpool, Legs, Longevity, League

Discussion in 'The Football Forum' started by FoxForceFive, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. FoxForceFive

    FoxForceFive Administrator Administrator

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    Okay, so first things first, this was partly inspired by the free Anfield Wrap podcast that just came out, so if you've heard that, yes, I robbed some of this, however, it basically backed up my own thoughts about this, which has been bugging me so far this season a bit.

    You'll have heard me constantly bang on about how tired some of our players are so far this season, I won't also bang on about the reasons here, (I'm sure some of you will bring them up in discourse after this) I think we all know them, but suffice to say, many of our key players haven't had what we'd normally say was a proper rest period in between seasons for far too long, & at the start of this season Klopp has barely rested players.

    It's clear why, it's literally "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", we keep winning, & we know how vital every three points are this season.

    Now we have a situation we probably didn't predict, in that City have dropped points. Now, had City not done that, I'd have fully expected to see Klopp start resting/rotating players in all the games before the City game, & then go full strength for the City game.

    Now that we're in this situation, I think we may well see Klopp roll the dice, going full strength for every league game up to City, to keep the pressure on them & try to keep or even open up this points lead.

    Then, should he decide to try to do the same until after Christmas, that wouldn't surprise me either, try to repeat a feat similar to what City did in 17/18, & run away with the league.

    There are some massive issues with this though, the front three look leggy, really leggy, mentally tired & (just as importantly IMO) the full-backs run marathons every match & if they're not on form, we struggle massively as it makes us way too easy to defend against. The midfield should be ok for a while, as it's the one area we can tinker with a bit without it having a huge effect on our play. Then we have the World Club Championship, which I'd love to see us send the ressies & kids, but in reality, I see little chance of that, unfortunately.

    What do you guys think? Worth the gamble, or try to rotate some players in, maybe change formation to make the most of Shaqiri & rest a forward each game like towards the start of last season?
     
  2. mom

    mom Very Active Member

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    Rotate. We don’t have the depth that City have in their squad. If we pick up a key injury we could be in real trouble looking at our possible fixture list this season.
    Makes me wonder sometimes just how much of a difference fresh legs could make. I know the back up players aren’t up to the standard of, let’s say the front three for example, but how much difference would there be between say a shattered Firmino, and a fresh and fired up Shaq, desperate to stake a claim for a first team place?
     
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  3. hmmmmm1

    hmmmmm1 Very Active Member

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    in an ideal world (never going to happen) we would play the first team for the league matches. Do a Leicester, one league game a week.

    Play the back ups for the other games including the champions league.  Are back ups are generally weak, ox, kieta, orgigi.  ok to come in if desperate but would yo risk them for the must win games.

    The counter argument is we are playing genk in the the next 2 European games which should be a walk over.  Win those games and we are probably close to qualifying.
     
  4. manwithnoname

    manwithnoname Bravo old man. Bravo. Member

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    I think we have to rotate, because it isn't just the front three; Van Dijk, Robbo and TAA have all been at a lower level this season compared to last, but even more of an issue is that Henderson and Wijnaldum have both looked fucked in the second half of a few games, and it's only October.
     
  5. Insignificance

    Insignificance Bad to the bone Member

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    We should definately see if we find time for a rotation at some stage. The midfield is well equipped to rotate as it is, hence we should have Ox, Shaq and Origi as potential rotating player for the fron three. We will not play a second string in CL anyway and we should not. We should qualify and we need to ensure we doesn't waste it. It is a pity that the more anonymous teams shows some strength in Europe this season so it is not a walk in the park, but we should be able to play Genk and also Salzburg of the park when firing on all cylindres.

    One thought is that the short preaseason (for some) has lead to us gambling on having leggy players in this part due to us using these games for prep for later in the season. I mean that we haven't try to keep them fresh but rather loading them now for more stamina as the season goes on?
     
  6. manwithnoname

    manwithnoname Bravo old man. Bravo. Member

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    I dunno, maybe. This is not really an area I know anything about.

    But we have the likes of Gomez and Lovren to help out at CB, and we really should* have enough in midfield with Milner, Lallana, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Keita and Shaqiri in reserve - it's the front three that looks light, with only Origi and maybe an advanced Shaqiri as options there.

    *And yeah, I say "should" because out of that lot, Milner's the only one I trust
     
  7. Modo

    Modo A contentious scando Member

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    Klopp has to start rotating. You have to ask yourself, what do we want more? The league or the Champions League?
    The answer is obvious.
    Players are already showing signs of fatigue like Brendan mentioned, so rotation is more of a necessity at this stage.
    Man U (A) Best team
    Genk (A) Rotate
    Spurs (H) Best team
    Arsenal (H) Rotate
    Villa (A) Best team
    Genk (H) Rotate

    Simple.
     
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  8. Insignificance

    Insignificance Bad to the bone Member

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    Not sure Klopp will do this. We loose a lot of rythm and pace by rotating too much, and he like to have his players well connected.
     
  9. FoxForceFive

    FoxForceFive Administrator Administrator

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    Ok, so everyone is saying rotate, but, to clarify, do you mean start rotating players immediately, so not only against genk in the CL, & Arsenal in the League Cup, but also against Utd, Spurs & Villa in the league?

    There's obviously a great argument for it, in that we'd have fresher legs to play against City (a game which, if we keep winning, I think they'll be trying to simply frustrate the fuck out of us & stop us scoring at all costs, in order to get a draw at a minimum, & to stop our winning momentum, get themselves some belief that we have started to drop points & therefore can be caught), & some players desperately need the rest.

    The counter argument is obvious though, should we drop points before City it will pile pressure on ourselves & give them some belief.
     
  10. FoxForceFive

    FoxForceFive Administrator Administrator

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    Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I'm convinced he's gonna roll the dice, & go really strong, maybe one or two changes for the CL games, & only properly rotate for the league Cup match, with full strength for every other game.
     
  11. Modo

    Modo A contentious scando Member

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    I clearly only want us to rotate the team in the cups. And when I say "rotate" I mean play a mix of the freshest starters with some of the squad players. Definitely don't want to see us start with Hoever, Elliott, Jones and Brewster against neither Genk nor Arsenal.
    Wouldn't mind having one or two of them on the pitch though. Example:
    Team against Genk Away:

    Alisson - first game

    Hoever
    Gomez
    Lovren
    Milner

    Keita
    Lallana
    Oxlade

    Shaq
    Origi
    Elliott

    Bench:
    Firmino, Mane, Salah, Jones, Brewster etc

    Against Arsenal, I'd have more of the usual starters.
     
  12. FoxForceFive

    FoxForceFive Administrator Administrator

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    If it were up to me I'd play the same league Cup side against Arsenal, & have a very strong bench of first teamers to choose from.

    Worst case scenario they lose in a cup that is our lowest priority this season, best case scenario they progress & our 'b side' get to play at least one more game & gain a ton of confidence & belief.

    If we play a strong side & one of our key players get injured it could be catastrophic to our league campaign. As much as I'd like the momentum, & the experience of more games for less used players, for me that risk isn't worth it.
     
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  13. doctor_mac

    doctor_mac My cowboy name is Garland Justice Moderator

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    100% I'd much rather slip up against Arsenal in a tin pot trophy nobody gives a fuck about than risk slipping up in arguably the biggest club trophy in world footy. We will play a strongish side against Genk, perhaps rotating in the midfield and one of the front 3, and rightly so.
     
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  14. Modo

    Modo A contentious scando Member

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    I get what you're saying but I don't want to see us lose at Anfield.
    However, Arsenal don't seem to prioritize the League cup either and played a reserve side against Forest.
     
  15. Rafiagra

    Rafiagra Very Active Member

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    No one we want to play against City should be playing in the Arsenal game.

    We have to win every league game up to City and we then need to not lose against them. If we can win, then perfect.

    Should rotate against Genk and Villa to the degree where there are a couple of key changes but not full changes. Full teams against Utd, Spurs and City.
     
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  16. ILD

    ILD Very Well-Known Member

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    I was always in favour of starting all the big guns and taking them off when 3 nil up on the hour mark. Unfortunately it's not as simple as that so rotate without taking the piss.
     
  17. doctor_mac

    doctor_mac My cowboy name is Garland Justice Moderator

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    I think we need to remember too that we are fairly mature in the midfield area in terms of the players playing the majority of games. Hendo is almost 30, Gini is 29 in November, Millie 33. Fabinho is younger, but he is playing every single minute of every big game, and those big limbs do start looking tired. I have to say, if we had hung onto Grujic this season, who is really looking the part as a DM with Hertha, or perhaps made the loan only until January, I'd feel a lot more comfortable.
     
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  18. Modo

    Modo A contentious scando Member

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    Yeah, maybe not the most popular thought but maybe having Grujic over Lallana a year earlier would have been good.
     
  19. HC

    HC Very Well-Known Member

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    January window , I'd love us support the squad , spunk some money on someone who might offer instant results and push us on for the final for 4 months of the league
     
  20. Modo

    Modo A contentious scando Member

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    Got some options here:
    https://www.transfermarkt.com/statistik/endendevertraege

    I'd see if Bournemouth would part with Fraser, wouldn't be cup tied.
     

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