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I Told You So....didn't I ?

Vlads Quiff

Well-Known
Member
It seems to me, sadly, the "I told you so" element is an integral part of all football fora. ( I made that up, it sounds like it should be the plural of forum)

The consequence is when we have a poor result anyone who made an argument about signing a particular player in the first place, will air it again, and again, at every opportunity, human nature I suspect.

Amplify this by say six players yet to really write themselves in as “acceptableâ€, and the outcome is , or appears to be Knee-Jerk Fest 2006 (insert particular year), on boards from Liverpool to Shanghai . I did use the simile, like a RNIB River Dance Festival, the other day, I apologise – not for any offence, but for using it again.

This becomes even more deeply entrenched, and as time goes by it actually becomes personal.

As, or when, the player, or players, concerned does have a good game the fans that agreed with the wisdom of the purchase come straight back , and ram it straight down the throats of the detractors.
It at this point then becomes a battle of wills between two sides, and misses the real issues, and a cycle is born.

The cycle becomes black and white, “yes he isâ€, against - “no he isn’tâ€. The subject player eventually becomes a figure of hate for some, not only because they still believe the original argument, but because one of the protagonists, and we have all seen it, has been made to look very stupid by a turn round in the players form, or a ridiculous post, or combination of the two, seemingly caused by egos who can never be seen to be wrong.

There is an ever increasing blame culture that has crept into all aspect of society, when we lose we have to blame someone. It seems that a common element is to pick on one feature, due perhaps to long held prejudices as described above. Take Liverpool’s loss to Bolton at the weekend. The players targeted range across the whole team, apart from one or two practically immune players, goalkeeper through to centre forward, the Manager, the opposition manager, the officials, the FA, Sky TV. Losing, or indeed winning, is usually an accumulation of events, sometimes triggered by one over-riding catalyst, for example in the match mentioned a clearly wrong decision by an official.

The writers problem with some of this is he was brought up in an age when a Liverpool supporter just did not criticise anything to do with LFC, certainly not to the extent that seems acceptable theses days, yes some players do frustrate, some players occasionally deserve to be berated, ( people will tell me that is our right, perhaps it is), but I believe it has now reached the point, on some occasions, when “fans†on here, and elsewhere, actually hope a player plays badly to prove their wisdom.

Football is not an exact science- that is why it is popular. It is not wholly predictable- that is why we keep going back. It is full of controversy- that is why we argue. It is a bottomless pit of options- that is why we discuss. Its whole heart surrounds a group of people who are mostly no more than boys, a great many of who are not the sharpest knives in the drawer, academia and IQ was not / is not their skill, spatial awareness and athleticism is. We expect these boys to be uprooted from a different environment, sometimes a different culture, and language, and we expect them to settle overnight, it just does not happen like that, OK occasionally it does.

They pull on a red jersey; and as long as they work hard and act professionally they should expect our support. This is not to say there is some cut off point when criticism might not be reasonable. I would suggest though that after between four and eight competitive games would not be regarded by anyone with any mental capacity as fair.

In writing this I have become aware of my own short-comings in this area, and I only hope some , like me, will make a concerted effort to be more patient, tolerant and understanding. If that still fails and people still feel criticism is justified, remember to have the good grace to accept he is still a Liverpool player, and personal vitriolic attacks in some circles are seen as wrong.

It used to be part of that spiritual code of conduct, that is fast evaporating, called The Liverpool Way
 
I hear what you're saying Vlad (very good post again btw) but I think the fact that we haven't won the league for so long plays a massive part in this.

You mentioned how derision and criticism wasn't heard of back in the day at Liverpool. But back in the day there was bugger all to criticise. The team was winning the league every bloody year, and proving to be the best side in Europe on countless occassions, not even Brendan or I could find fault in that!

Contrast that to today's plethora of £100K a week 'superstars' who haven't contrived to even come close to winning the Holy Grail for us in the last 15 years, and I feel criticism is to a large degree, warranted.

Yes it can go OTT, but even the most placid and agreeable of supporters surely has the right to question and admonish when they're paying thousands per year by way of supporting, and NOT getting what they feel are the just rewards on the pitch in return.

No?
 
As I said it is reasonable to criticise.
My thrust is that the criticism is not objective, merely an excuse to demonstrate why a particular player should not have been purchased in the first place.

I do think that four full premiership games is not a reasonable time to make a final judgement on anyone.

regards
 
Supporting Liverpool is not a service. You shouldn't expect a return for your money. Just because you have invested time and money does not mean that Liverpool FC owes you anything. If you think it does then you're in the wrong game.

I agree with the initial post in it's entirity. Excellent post.
 
Vlads Quiff said:
As I said it is reasonable to criticise.
My thrust is that the criticism is not objective, merely an excuse to demonstrate why a particular player should not have been purchased in the first place.

I do think that four full premiership games is not a reasonable time to make a final judgement on anyone.

regards

But what if you've watched said player toil away to minimal effect in the Premier League for three or four years prior to joining us mate?

Does he automatically lose all misgivings you had about him previously, just because the manager of your supported team has decided to shell out £7M on him?

I really don't want to make this personal, or conjure up excuses for not appreciating a Liverpool player, but surely there's a line somewhere here?
 
Good post, Vladders. I think Sky has contributed to it. If one thinks back to when Souness or Hansen was captaining the team and it was winning everything in sight, you'd probably only see or hear them being interviewed two or three times a season on national TV. Now everyone's talking non-stop - and the personalities, good and bad, get magnified more and more. Mistakes that, twenty years ago, would have been put to bed after the weekend are now analysed every hour of every day for a week or more on Sky Sports News and on the phone-ins, and suddenly every minor cock-up is transformed into a serious character flaw. Maybe I'm paranoid but there also seems to be, if not an agenda then at least a slightly mischievous obsession, with anything vaguely problematic at the club - someone produces a stat about rotation (why did THAT not come up for discussion after, say, 50 changed selections?), every commentator decides Reina is dodgy (did they ever see David James play for us?), etc etc. TV used to take the agenda set by the fans and the clubs; now it sets the agenda for us. The magnifying glass guides us from one storm in a tea cup to the next. Even the witless 'who are ya' chants spread like wild fire now. Tim Lovejoy and Co prompting the Kop? Please no! I think we all could do with a spell of 'us against the world' solidarity - not to a Slur Drinkalot extreme, but a more dignified refusal to play along with the media game.
 
Gerry_A_Trick said:
Supporting Liverpool is not a service. You shouldn't expect a return for your money. Just because you have invested time and money does not mean that Liverpool FC owes you anything. If you think it does then you're in the wrong game.

I agree with the initial post in it's entirity. Excellent post.

It depends on who is criticised. Pennant can not be blamed if he is not good enough for LFC, nor that we spent 7 million pounds on the tosser, nor the fact that he earns a good wage because what Liverpool fan wouldnt jump at the chance at playing for LFC and earn a shed load of cash. Unless the players are not giving 100% the buck stops at the manager and the board, and over the years i agree with Ryan than the criticism has been warranted. We should be far bigger than Utd commercially, we should have a bigger stadium, we should have better players but alas we don't..
 
Gerry_A_Trick said:
Supporting Liverpool is not a service. You shouldn't expect a return for your money. Just because you have invested time and money does not mean that Liverpool FC owes you anything. If you think it does then you're in the wrong game.

I agree with the initial post in it's entirity. Excellent post.

Very good Gerry. Too many fans have joined the "we expect to be entertained" group.

We exist as a football club, a sporting club. We are that first and a business second. Anyone who says otherwise is forgetting our raison d'etre.
 
Spionkop69 said:
Gerry_A_Trick said:
Supporting Liverpool is not a service. You shouldn't expect a return for your money. Just because you have invested time and money does not mean that Liverpool FC owes you anything. If you think it does then you're in the wrong game.

I agree with the initial post in it's entirity. Excellent post.

Very good Gerry. Too many fans have joined the "we expect to be entertained" group.

We exist as a football club, a sporting club. We are that first and a business second. Anyone who says otherwise is forgetting our raison d'etre.

not sure if i'd agree with that.

perhaps its fair to say that 'Liverpool doesnt owe us anything'; but the analogy i take is that the the club is part of my family.i love the team,and invest time,money and support and hope they perform well.

and when they do,i feel wonderful.there are few things that matte to me more than reading the papers on Sunday morning and seeing the articles about our wins.when they're impressive wins,all the better.but i just want to see them win. of course, i already know they won; i'd seen the match and logged onto here. but i want to relish it anyway.

probably the way a parent feels when their kids score a goal.they feel great about it.

but the kid doesnt 'owe' it to his parent to score a goal.

but which parent doesnt feel a bit frustrated when their kids keep playing poorly?true,a good parent will still give all the support and love that required.

but we're kidding ourselves if we suggest that we dont feel frustrated,or even a little angry.we want them to win so badly.

and one more thing : i would wager that a large number of us practically structure our lives around this club and its matches.i know i'm guilty of that once in a while.

we're not 'owed' anything.but dont tell me we're not entitled to feel frustrated at times.

i'm aware that my analogy is a little queasy,but its a valid point.
 
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