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Fucking VAR

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Stevesquash

Stevesquash

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They've been at it again, trying to screw us over AGAIN. Honestly it's beyond a joke.

Those lines for the offside. How can they say with any confidence they are in the right place? Answer: they can't.

So not clear and obvious error.

If we can't get a better system or better personnel then it should go for offsides.

Why are the cameras so shit? Why dont we have triangulated positions as we see in other sports? Why are the imbeciles who mske the decisions at Stockley Park, imbeciles?
 
Basically they refuse to take the margin of error, due to the fps rate, into consideration at all. Which means a number of decisions must be wrong - they simply need to amend the way VAR is used next season (and amend the stupid arm/crotch whatever ruling and change it to feet only). But we've been over this time and again so it's now up to the authorities, they must see that the way it's implemented at present is pissing off everyone from the fans to players and managers and adding extreme pressure to the officials on the pitch/in front of the screens.
 
Said it before. If the lines touch, it should be onside to bring into play the margin of error from the person drawing the line.

Also, can we as a club not have more cameras available? It seems to me are always screwed on the angles more than other clubs. Probably needs investment.
 
momoWASboss said:
Don’t the Dutch use thicker lines and if they touch it’s onside. That’s the logical solution until the camera tech catches up.
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I don't think a temp solution waiting for more technology is the right direction.

VAR was theoretically intended to address clear errors. If technology is measuring fractions of an inch, you completely take away the potential of a player to make a decision in real-time - can I go or do I hold?

Players have always gotten the decision wrong a lot of the time, but at a least there is a reasonable chance for them to make a correct decision. But, no player is capable of deciding armpits and shoulder triangulations to the pitch in real-time or otherwise.

I am fine with VAR, as a concept, but it needs to be dramatically simplified, so that football players play the game on the field rather than refs and commentators playing a vido game off of it.
 
Modo said:
They should just do the eye test. If they can't determine if it's offside on the monitor using their own eyes, then it's not offside.
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Or maybe just like rugby union, if they cant see a clear and obvious error to overturn the on field decision, the original decision stands.
 
I don't understand why they drew the line at the point nearer to Jota's elbow instead of his shoulder.
 
KopRed said:
I don't understand why they drew the line at the point nearer to Jota's elbow instead of his shoulder.
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So the way understood the elbow vertical line was that it is apparently in line with last defenders hand so it’s more of an apparent confirmation of the decision. I could be wrong though as the whole arms being used in decision is a load of BS as you can’t score with your arm. The decision in Fulham v Wolves was just as bad.
Rather than focussing on clear decisions they should fix with the new system in it’s first iteration, they set about trying to be perfect every single decision with an imperfect system.
 
rubans said:
So the way understood the elbow vertical line was that it is apparently in line with last defenders hand so it’s more of an appatent confirmation of the decision. I could be wrong though as the whole arms being used in decision is a load of BS as you can’t score with your arm. The decision in Fulham v Wolves was just as bad.
Rather than focussing on clear decisions they should fix with the new system in it’s first iteration, they set about trying to be perfect every single decision with an imperfect system.
Click to expand...

I am actually ok with the whole shoulder rule because I guess if someone scores with his shoulder the goal will count.

But if you look at the line they have drawn yesterday it was obviously at the end of the sleeve and that part is never the shoulder, it is the bicep area which is not part of the body that could score a good goal.

1-Linda-VARjfif.jpg
 
what a fucking shambles that is!
they have to sort this shit out
Not even the FA can be so...or hang on...what am I saying.
 
momoWASboss said:
Don’t the Dutch use thicker lines and if they touch it’s onside. That’s the logical solution until the camera tech catches up.
Click to expand...

It would have been a goal in the CL and in a few other leagues given how they use VAR.
Had that been the case in the Premier league, I think we have a few more points...
 
FreshRed said:
I don't think a temp solution waiting for more technology is the right direction.

VAR was theoretically intended to address clear errors. If technology is measuring fractions of an inch, you completely take away the potential of a player to make a decision in real-time - can I go or do I hold?

Players have always gotten the decision wrong a lot of the time, but at a least there is a reasonable chance for them to make a correct decision. But, no player is capable of deciding armpits and shoulder triangulations to the pitch in real-time or otherwise.

I am fine with VAR, as a concept, but it needs to be dramatically simplified, so that football players play the game on the field rather than refs and commentators playing a vido game off of it.
Click to expand...

VAR hasn’t changed the when to go or not, that’s always been there. The only difference is it was a human making a split second decision. Now it’s viewed to the nth degree. Offside shouldn’t be subjective so it shouldn’t come under that clear and obvious umbrella. It’s either come up with a temporary solution til the tech is there or bin it. It won’t be binned because as soon as an offside goal is scored everyone will be up in arms.

VAR should really get away from clear and obvious too. It should be used for is it a pen/red card or not and a quick check of goals. Pandora’s box has been opened and it’s not going away any time soon so it needs to be changed to help as best it can. They need to put people who aren’t retards in charge.
 
Hansern said:
It would have been a goal in the CL and in a few other leagues given how they use VAR.
Had that been the case in the Premier league, I think we have a few more points...
Click to expand...

Those arseholes couldn’t even spot the Mané foul on Tuesday so I wouldn’t trust them to get anything right.
 
KopRed said:
I am actually ok with the whole shoulder rule because I guess if someone scores with his shoulder the goal will count.

But if you look at the line they have drawn yesterday it was obviously at the end of the sleeve and that part is never the shoulder, it is the bicep area which is not part of the body that could score a good goal.

1-Linda-VARjfif.jpg
Click to expand...
Shadows don't say shit in this case.
 
You know whats going to happen - there is such a negative reaction from all sides that they will throw the baby out with the bathwater and completely get rid of VAR for offside this summer.

Then, throughout next season, we will regularly concede goals which are a good yard offside, and have perfectly good goals disallowed for an incorrect offside call.

Use of VAR to catch, for example, that diabolical offside call against Sterling (for us) in the City match some years ago would make sense, but the powers that be will see it as an all or nothing approach
 
momoWASboss said:
VAR hasn’t changed the when to go or not, that’s always been there. The only difference is it was a human making a split second decision. Now it’s viewed to the nth degree. Offside shouldn’t be subjective so it shouldn’t come under that clear and obvious umbrella. It’s either come up with a temporary solution til the tech is there or bin it. It won’t be binned because as soon as an offside goal is scored everyone will be up in arms.

VAR should really get away from clear and obvious too. It should be used for is it a pen/red card or not and a quick check of goals. Pandora’s box has been opened and it’s not going away any time soon so it needs to be changed to help as best it can. They need to put people who aren’t retards in charge.
Click to expand...

Agree completely. But, as a player, these 1/8 of inch decisions are completely beyond your control and consistent with what has always been even.

What players will have to do now is hold way back, because they really can't control where there elbow is located - only their feet. I get if you are upside by a diving header, but still...do we want to penalize that?

So, now the forward has the disadvantage instead of what is supposed to be a slight advantage for the forward to encourage goals. As a referee, we were always trained that when in doubt, the forward gets the benefit of the doubt. Now, it's the exact opposite in structure and interpretation.
 
If they would simply change the fucking offside rule to a far more simple, far more objective definition, it would change everything...

If they would just make the rule to read that there must be clear daylight between the FEET of the attacker and the last defender to be offside, this entire problem is solved.

That Bobby goal disallowed against Villa last season still make me furious. And this year, that Leeds goal disallowed because the lad pointed to where he wanted the ball, is the single most idiotic thing that I've ever seen.
 
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KopRed said:
Look at the line they drawn for Bobby. Acceptable.
NINTCHDBPICT000536312525.jpg


Look at the line they drawn for Sadio. Acceptable.
ELw-GS-j-Ww-AA3-PJB.jpg


Then look at the line they drawn for Jota. It's way off the earlier 2.
1-Linda-VARjfif.jpg
Click to expand...

The line goes up to Jota's head

1872460b3ea4091c2c4a987a5d2d7459.jpg
 
The ball isn’t even in view so how can you tell he’s offside from that view?
 
The need to introduce a margin of error that get's called 'level' - use the same system but make both lines thicker. If the lines touch - level. Literally sorted.

My biggest gripe is how they choose the frame for the lines - but thicker lines allow for this movement between frames.

Of course an even better solution would be that we use the linesmans decision and checks on VAR can only be a full speed replay with no lines - if you can't tell using a replay they stick with the decision.

I don't think there is a single football fan who likes VAR for offsides.
 
“Ruining the game” has be thrown around too much about various things in the past to do with football, but I genuinely think it is valid for VAR. Even with objective consideration, I’m not sure anyone appreciated this level of sheer joy-stealing wankery when it was conceived
 
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