FSG
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No.
Why?
Football is a mad business, where you want financially responsible owners who are also ready to be financially irresponsible when the occasion seems to suit the development of the team, which doesn't make sense unless the owner has the obscene wealth of an Abramovich. FSG are financially responsible owners, which ought to be appreciated given our memory of Hicks and Gillett (and Davey Moores for that matter). So the worst state FSG will leave us in is fairly stable. To deliver more than that I guess you either need the most incredible combination of good judgement, player availability and exceptionally good luck or else billionaire investment. So FSG are pretty good. But as a football fan I'm as childish and irrational as the best of them and I want the best players and all the trophies, so I'm also very frustrated.
Went all out to get Klopp, one of the most highly vaunted managers in Europe ? Have backed him to not spend when he deemed it and backed him to the hilt (it seems) when he does (Salah, VVD and probably also Keita) ? Got the new main stand built and relaid the pitch this Summer ? Greatly increased our income from global marketing ? Offloaded dead wood for decent prices last season and looking likely to do the same this ?
Yeah, real shit.
Huh, why? We made 2 signings so far this window and I'm quite happy with both. I'm also happy with the other players we're trying to sign, just need to get it over the line.
What makes a good owner? Take the example of Arsenal and Tottenham. Arsenal has bad owners and Spurs good owners but why? Arsenal have out spent Spurs, and has lower debt , they've been more successful than Spurs, in the 21 years AW's been in charge Spurs have had 11 new managers including one that commuted to work using the London Underground. Yet somehow Spurs are better run.
The appointment of their current Manager was a shrewd one as were some of their purchases, but they are still way behind Arsenal in most respects.
The appointment of their current Manager was a shrewd one as were some of their purchases, but they are still way behind Arsenal in most respects.
I expect a Club of our stature to be competing and winning things. We've not done that and a lot of it's down to their amateurish, clueless, lowballing, pissing Club's off ways when it comes to transfers.
They've done some good of course they have but I don't think they push the boat out and really do everything they can to make us as competitive as we can possibly be and as a fan I find that difficult to accept.
In terms of recruitment...a huge, significant factor for any Football Club their approach has left a lot to be desired. This summer they have nowhere to hide and no excuses.
Klopp in, and CL football to look forward to...back the man ffs.
This summer will tell the tale and will be key in how they're viewed by the majority of the fanbase going forward.
Klopp in, and CL football to look forward to...back the man ffs.
This summer will tell the tale and will be key in how they're viewed by the majority of the fanbase going forward.
Perhaps too amateurish/simplistic view, but one thing I had hoped for was for more experienced personnel to be appointed to key positions, instead of the promotion from within. I thought Klopp was a move towards the right direction but Michael Edwards was a bit of a let down. We may be a top club in name but are the leaders of the same caliber as our name?
What do you mean 'a club of our stature'? You do realise that history means jack and football has changed dramatically with all the money being pumped into it, don't you?
To expect to win things just because 'we're Liverpool' is a little naive.
They've appointed a CEO, it's now his role to look at Edwards and the current scouting network. I look at what Monaco have done and I am in awe.
Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to fall under his purview.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/who-new-liverpool-peter-moore-12667130
[article]Moore's appointment is the final part of a major reshuffle of the club's management structure.
Unlike Ayre, he won't have any part to play in the negotiating of transfer deals or player contracts.
That work is done by Michael Edwards, who was elevated to the position of sporting director back in November.
The CEO role has changed at Liverpool and it will now be more business than football based.[/article]
Dude!!!! Weve signed one of them!!
There's still 2 months of the transfer season to go so if it's OK to dis FSG now, when the show has hardly started, then surely it's OK to use players we know we are definitely after as part of the defence? Goose-Gander and all that!
NB. VVD & Keita. I wasn't suggesting we'll definitely sign them. I was inferring that FSG are clearly willing to spend the big bucks to sign the players Klopp wants. So bitching that they aren't investing makes no sense.
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Arguing about not backing the manager is as far fetched as using Keita and VVD at this point.
There is, as Froggy says, 2 months left of the window.
But but, Everton are spending all that money, you say. Well, who the fuck cares. Not one of those players would get into our team, and they've paid through the roof for them.
Salah for 36 mill looks a cracking signing for that fee now, and there are 2 more months to go.
Klopp said we needed patience in the transfer market yesterday, so lets give him and the club that.
If we end the window and start the season with not enough quality signings, then we can have a go at FSG.
So far it looks like they'll back Klopp with plenty of money.
There is, as Froggy says, 2 months left of the window.
But but, Everton are spending all that money, you say. Well, who the fuck cares. Not one of those players would get into our team, and they've paid through the roof for them.
Salah for 36 mill looks a cracking signing for that fee now, and there are 2 more months to go.
Klopp said we needed patience in the transfer market yesterday, so lets give him and the club that.
If we end the window and start the season with not enough quality signings, then we can have a go at FSG.
So far it looks like they'll back Klopp with plenty of money.
Not really no. Its stupid.
Our transfer dealings are fucking woeful and have been the whole time FSG have been here. They've never got to grips with it at all.
They should have nailed it this summer, but once again we've made an absolute pigs ear of it. Every transfer is a protracted mess dragged out through the media.
FSG have to take responsibility for this being the status quo. I don't mind FSG and they've got plenty right but they need to master the football transfer business sharpish.
They should have nailed it this summer, but once again we've made an absolute pigs ear of it. Every transfer is a protracted mess dragged out through the media.
FSG have to take responsibility for this being the status quo. I don't mind FSG and they've got plenty right but they need to master the football transfer business sharpish.
Things were so great before FSG. I remember the good old days when we swapped Owen for some no-mark Spanish winger. I wish we could go back to those days.
Yeah winning the European Cup in 2005, FA Cup in 2006, smashing Europe's best all over the show in CL, assembling our best ever Premier League side between 07 and 09...dark days indeed
I don't think the discontent is simply due to with this transfer window's performance (thus far) and/or because of possible frustration/impatience caused by the VVD and Keita transfer moves. It's fair to say that after 7 years into a 'new field', they are expected to learn and improve progressively. The question is have their?
How big a part did they play in us 'finally' making it back to CL (albeit, just)? Are the foundations strong enough for a sustained challenge for honors? Yeah, I remember about the near misses in cup runs but were they genuine/accurate proof of the club's growth such as the kind of progress shown by the likes of At. Madrid and Sevilla or masked by other factors? Am I right to say that had we failed to finish in the top 4, a barrage of questions and doubts would have been directed at them?
There's no denying what they've done for the business side of things but this is more than just a company, it's a football club.
Moneyball and investing in talented youngsters with vast potential for improvement and/or great sell on value seems like a novelty or far too idealistic (esp. when they were first mentioned/coined with FSG) but it has been proven capable of working (to various degree) by many clubs. However, the key lies in the decision makers and support/interference/influence from the board.
(An alternative view of how much progress/changes can happen within these 7 years) Since FSG's takeover in 2010,
- RB Leipzig got added as Red Bull's fifth football commitment in 2009 as a fifth-tier team (Ralf Rangnick joined Red Bull as their Sporting Director in 2012)
- Tottenham finished outside the top 5 once (vs. us finishing in top 5 twice during the same period). This is despite the numerous changes made - Jol, Comolli, Ramos, Redknapp, Villas-Boas, Baldini etc. and off cos their loss of star players like Bale and Modric.
- Monaco got promoted in 2013 (took over in 2012)
- Juventus gone from finishing 7th twice to winning title 6 times in a row (Beppe Marotta joined as GM in 2010 from Sampdoria)
- Southampton rose from League One to Premier League (Les Reed joined in 2010)
- Atletico Madrid gone from finishing between 7th to top 3 in the last 5 seasons including 1 title (Andrea Berta joined as Sporting Director in 2010)
Granted majority of the examples in this post are from different leagues but they do have some things in common - such as getting the structure right, bringing in experienced personnel, having a vision and sticking with it, making tweaks along the way.
It seemed like FSG wanted to take a short cut to success. Or perhaps they get easily impressed by eloquent/'fanciful' characters. You have the appointment of Damien Comolli who had such a reference from his previous employer (St Etienne co-chairman Bernard Caiazzo)
[article]Damien spent €22 million [£18.7 million] of our money on seven players in summer of last year. Only one is a first-team regular now. We gave him the keys to our club and are now in financial difficulties.[/article]
which makes you wonder if they did their due diligence and who all those 'football people' they spoke to were. This article probably give some insight into why he hasn't got any similar job since leaving us.
On Comolli's appointment:
[article]“Today's announcement is just the first step in creating a leadership group and structure designed to develop, enhance and implement our long-term philosophy of scouting, recruitment, player development and all of the other aspects necessary to build and sustain a club able to consistently compete at the highest level in European football.
“We intend to be bold and innovative. We will not rest until we have restored Liverpool Football Club to the greatness Liverpool fans expect.”[/article]
That 'long-term philosophy' didn't last. They 'ditched' the DoF system (which they seemed so insistent on) to bring in Rodgers who say he "wouldn't directly work with a director of football" and "am better when I have control". They were obviously not entirely comfortable with that and a well documented transfer committee was conceived - well, they tried to keep by their promise of being 'bold and innovative'.
By the time Rodgers departed, we all read about how it was not what it was said to be (collaborative group of people working around the football area, one with Rodgers at the head and with control over football operations and transfers).
When rumors about plans to appoint a Sporting Director started kicking off towards end of last year, we enthusiastically discussed/hoped for experienced gurus like Monchi and Zorc. Just like how we tend to be linked with star players but end up failing to land them, we were treated to news of Michael Edwards' appointment as Director of Sport. What a promotion for someone who's background was Head of Performance Analysis - no doubt bold and innovative (I'm not sure that's what I look forward to though). Besides being part of that dubious transfer committee, having read reports about how he 'did a number on' Rodgers and the 'cosy relationship with FSG' certainly smack of another appointment/promotion that was made with the heart/blind faith, it looks like a repeat of history again.
Finally, perhaps reading too much into things but we're reading a lot about how Klopp has been convincing players to join us but nothing of the sort involving Edwards. This (lack of mentioning of DoF or Sporting Director in deals) doesn't seem common with transfer news/articles involving other clubs operating in similar manner.
Klopp seems like a fluke goal they managed to score (and indirectly helped paper of some cracks). Hope to be proven wrong but the jury is still out on them and the grading on the report card leaves a lot of room for improvement. (I'd love it if they deliver the likes of VVD and Keita. Love it)
How big a part did they play in us 'finally' making it back to CL (albeit, just)? Are the foundations strong enough for a sustained challenge for honors? Yeah, I remember about the near misses in cup runs but were they genuine/accurate proof of the club's growth such as the kind of progress shown by the likes of At. Madrid and Sevilla or masked by other factors? Am I right to say that had we failed to finish in the top 4, a barrage of questions and doubts would have been directed at them?
There's no denying what they've done for the business side of things but this is more than just a company, it's a football club.
Moneyball and investing in talented youngsters with vast potential for improvement and/or great sell on value seems like a novelty or far too idealistic (esp. when they were first mentioned/coined with FSG) but it has been proven capable of working (to various degree) by many clubs. However, the key lies in the decision makers and support/interference/influence from the board.
(An alternative view of how much progress/changes can happen within these 7 years) Since FSG's takeover in 2010,
- RB Leipzig got added as Red Bull's fifth football commitment in 2009 as a fifth-tier team (Ralf Rangnick joined Red Bull as their Sporting Director in 2012)
- Tottenham finished outside the top 5 once (vs. us finishing in top 5 twice during the same period). This is despite the numerous changes made - Jol, Comolli, Ramos, Redknapp, Villas-Boas, Baldini etc. and off cos their loss of star players like Bale and Modric.
- Monaco got promoted in 2013 (took over in 2012)
- Juventus gone from finishing 7th twice to winning title 6 times in a row (Beppe Marotta joined as GM in 2010 from Sampdoria)
- Southampton rose from League One to Premier League (Les Reed joined in 2010)
- Atletico Madrid gone from finishing between 7th to top 3 in the last 5 seasons including 1 title (Andrea Berta joined as Sporting Director in 2010)
Granted majority of the examples in this post are from different leagues but they do have some things in common - such as getting the structure right, bringing in experienced personnel, having a vision and sticking with it, making tweaks along the way.
It seemed like FSG wanted to take a short cut to success. Or perhaps they get easily impressed by eloquent/'fanciful' characters. You have the appointment of Damien Comolli who had such a reference from his previous employer (St Etienne co-chairman Bernard Caiazzo)
[article]Damien spent €22 million [£18.7 million] of our money on seven players in summer of last year. Only one is a first-team regular now. We gave him the keys to our club and are now in financial difficulties.[/article]
which makes you wonder if they did their due diligence and who all those 'football people' they spoke to were. This article probably give some insight into why he hasn't got any similar job since leaving us.
On Comolli's appointment:
[article]“Today's announcement is just the first step in creating a leadership group and structure designed to develop, enhance and implement our long-term philosophy of scouting, recruitment, player development and all of the other aspects necessary to build and sustain a club able to consistently compete at the highest level in European football.
“We intend to be bold and innovative. We will not rest until we have restored Liverpool Football Club to the greatness Liverpool fans expect.”[/article]
That 'long-term philosophy' didn't last. They 'ditched' the DoF system (which they seemed so insistent on) to bring in Rodgers who say he "wouldn't directly work with a director of football" and "am better when I have control". They were obviously not entirely comfortable with that and a well documented transfer committee was conceived - well, they tried to keep by their promise of being 'bold and innovative'.
By the time Rodgers departed, we all read about how it was not what it was said to be (collaborative group of people working around the football area, one with Rodgers at the head and with control over football operations and transfers).
When rumors about plans to appoint a Sporting Director started kicking off towards end of last year, we enthusiastically discussed/hoped for experienced gurus like Monchi and Zorc. Just like how we tend to be linked with star players but end up failing to land them, we were treated to news of Michael Edwards' appointment as Director of Sport. What a promotion for someone who's background was Head of Performance Analysis - no doubt bold and innovative (I'm not sure that's what I look forward to though). Besides being part of that dubious transfer committee, having read reports about how he 'did a number on' Rodgers and the 'cosy relationship with FSG' certainly smack of another appointment/promotion that was made with the heart/blind faith, it looks like a repeat of history again.
Finally, perhaps reading too much into things but we're reading a lot about how Klopp has been convincing players to join us but nothing of the sort involving Edwards. This (lack of mentioning of DoF or Sporting Director in deals) doesn't seem common with transfer news/articles involving other clubs operating in similar manner.
Klopp seems like a fluke goal they managed to score (and indirectly helped paper of some cracks). Hope to be proven wrong but the jury is still out on them and the grading on the report card leaves a lot of room for improvement. (I'd love it if they deliver the likes of VVD and Keita. Love it)
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