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WRoy The Winning Winner

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WhyAlwaysMe?

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There was pressing. There was a higher defensive line. There was no Poulsen to slow the game down. Meireles was not marooned on the wing. The game was taken to the opposition. There was passing and movement, playing to the strengths of the players. It was what so many of us have been calling for.

Play like that in six of the next eight games, and Roy Hodgson might find the criticism from fans (myself included) dissipating. So that’s my promise: more of this, on a consistent basis, and all can still be forgiven.

Of course, after the abject start to the season, there’s no leeway now. That’s the problem; one good performance doesn’t undo that damage. The Reds remain in the relegation zone with exactly one-quarter of the season gone, with a goal difference of -5. In any other season that would be utterly unthinkable.

fernando_torres.jpg


But a well-deserved win – 2-1, but only kept respectable by Paul Robinson in the Blackburn goal – can become a platform for continued improvement. An understandably edgy last 20 minutes did not detract from a superb first 70, and as well as scoring and being a decoy for the second, Soto Kyrgiakos – one of the Reds’ best attacking players all season (which says a lot about the form up to now) – was also denied two blatant penalties.

If Roy stop the embarrassing, unbefitting comments in the media and come to understand what Liverpool fans want from their manager – defending his own players rather than deferring to the likes of Alex Ferguson – then he can have some hope.

Keep this up, and I’ll admit I was too premature in some of my judgements.

However, the performance also showed what his critics have been saying all along: the players are there; if not to be top four, then at least to be in the vicinity. The players are there to play football and create chances. Eight members of the squad played in the 4-1 win at Old Trafford, and plenty of other talented players remain at the club.

Soto Kyrgiakos has been immense as a Liverpool player; one of Benítez’s supposed flops, he continues to excel at both ends, all for a measly £1.5m. (Roughly the same price paid at the end of last season for the hugely promising Jonjo Shelvey.) £1.5m was also the price paid for the club’s top scorer this season, David NGog.

Without Poulson anchoring the midfield (as in mooring it to the bottom of the sea), Lucas Leiva – outstanding for Brazil the other week – showed that given the right colleagues, he’s a top young talent worth a lot more than the £6m paid. Martin Skrtel looks back to his beastly best, and Maxi – a free transfer – showed that if the Reds play at a good tempo, he can pass and move with the best of them (as he did at the end of last season, and for Argentina at the World Cup). And the formation was 4-2-3-1, following the style of the previous manager, rather than the 4-4-2 usually preferred by the current one.

Of Hodgson’s own signings, Joe Cole and Paul Konchesky had pretty decent games – Cole was in and out, but when ‘in’ he was making things happen – and Raul Meireles confirmed that he is a top-class central midfielder, after games wasted on the wing and up front.

Perhaps the first home game of the new NESV era showed that with the ownership situation resolved, the talent is able to express itself; last season, under Benítez, and this season under Hodgson, has involved that black cloud.

We were never going to see the best of Liverpool with Gillett and Hicks lingering like a bad smell (that also makes your money vanish), but we did expect at least a few decent displays this season. Game nine, and we finally have one.

In the week an Arsenal fan told me he thought I was being too harsh on Roy, but admitted that we were awful versus Everton. When I said that Roy felt that was our best display, he saw my point.

By contrast, this was like watching the Brazil of 1970. Perhaps that’s part of the problem for those defending Roy – a lot haven’t seen the 90 minutes of our every game this season. Even at 0-0 at half-time against Blackburn, you could feel some pride in the display, and not feel embarrassed by the timid tactics.

But let’s not get carried away either.

It was only at home, and perhaps it’s got so bad that a very good performance at Anfield (following a 0-0 in Europe that was trumpeted by some as if it was a 1-0 win at Real Madrid) is seen as a real achievement.

Well, it’s not; it should be the norm (not every week, as no-one can have it all their own way every week, but most weeks).

Blackburn are a poor side, and without their two rocks at the back – Samba and Nelson (also their set-piece weapons) – they were weaker at both ends of the pitch. They lacked the pace and skill to hurt Liverpool, so in some senses they were the perfect opposition, especially after their other giant, Nzonzi, limped off. Today’s visitors were 17th in the table, not 7th.

But the one thing I’ve been asking for since mid-August is something to cling to in terms of performance. It has taken far, far too long, but at least it arrived; better late than never.

This performance and result still doesn’t prove that Roy is the right man for the job. Today, Plan A worked. There is still no evidence of a Plan B, and his awful away record as a Premier League manager has yet to be addressed. The next two games – Bolton away and Chelsea at home – will tell us more. Four points, and/or two good displays, and some momentum might build.

But today’s 2-1 win does give him something to use as a benchmark to show us what his team can be capable of. He got the players expressing themselves under the pressure of an on-field crisis, and he deserves credit for that. There has clearly been player unrest, but play like this, and if the manager stops saying the wrong things to the press, and that can continue to heal.

So with that in mind, my promise is to back off and give him a bit more of the benefit of the doubt (in the way that I had been giving him until the end of last week).

It’s still by far the worst start by a Liverpool manager since before Shankly, but that will be forgotten if a real revival – and not just a mini one – transpires.

The football today put a smile on my face, and I’d rather that continue to be the case than end up being proven right about Hodgson’s suitability. Prove me wrong beyond a couple of games, and I’ll be a happy man.

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/10/my-promise-to-roy/
 
Re: Roy The Winning Winner

I agree that the game put a smile of my face for the first time in many, many months - but the real problem is a lot of our upcoming fixtures our away from home, which means we're bound to lose or draw, and this will knock the wind out of sails before we've even got going and Roy will be fired.

If Hodgson carries on setting up the team in this way then he might make it as Liverpool manager until the end of the season, but if he reverts back to use usual shite tactics then he'll be out on his arse before long.
 
Re: Roy The Winning Winner

There were still worrying aspects of the performance. It was Blackburn, we still struggled to finish off an average side and almost paid for it, and when we didn't have the ball we still looked incredibly vulnerable and lacking control.

There were alot of bright spots though and it was good to see Shelvey appear in the closing stages and nice to see Hodgson acknowledging his performance midweek by doing so.
 
Re: Roy The Winning Winner

I think that yesterday was the best we could have performed in our current circumstances, so we shouldn't be too downbeat on it.

We were all blown away and surprised by it, frankly.
 
Re: Roy The Winning Winner

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42418.msg1205526#msg1205526 date=1288016665]
I think that yesterday was the best we could have performed in our current circumstances, so we shouldn't be too downbeat on it.

We were all blown away and surprised by it, frankly.
[/quote]

I thought we'd win because I just don't see how we could have gotten any worse, the squad isn't a relegation one, regardless of the manager. Maybe us looking vulnerable and nervous was down to our league position, I just hope we can push on now, I don't really give a fuck about the impact it has on Hodgon's future, I just want us to win games and we shouldn't be concentrating more on how we get rid of him, the most important thing is getting up the table and back in a respectable position.
 
We need to take the same attitude into all games going forwards - home and away. I've no doubts we'd have a lot more success if we do. Bolton will be a good soak test - do we persevere with the same old negative two defensive midfielder based formation or do we take forwards the more positive attacking game we saw yesterday. I'm all for the latter myself as I'm sure most Reds are.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=42418.msg1205530#msg1205530 date=1288017019]
We need to take the same attitude into all games going forwards - home and away. I've no doubts we'd have a lot more success if we do. Bolton will be a good soak test - do we persevere with the same old negative two defensive midfielder based formation or do we take forwards the more positive attacking game we saw yesterday. I'm all for the latter myself as I'm sure most Reds are.
[/quote]

I am, but it's on the back of our two DM's being shit (though Lucas played well yesterday) and us persevering with the same two DM system for the best part of 15 months.
 
The fact that Roy is proving so bloody conservative in the main might just work in his favour over the coming weeks.

There's zero chance he'll change a winning side after the side he's had so we will most probably see an unchanged side against Bolton. The Lucas/Meireles partnership will hopefully be given time to gel and Gerrard is restored in behind Torres for a run of games. As much as Joe Cole isn't wholly suited to the left, a run of games there might also help him to settle.

We might just have a chance of turning this around.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42418.msg1205535#msg1205535 date=1288017289]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=42418.msg1205530#msg1205530 date=1288017019]
We need to take the same attitude into all games going forwards - home and away. I've no doubts we'd have a lot more success if we do. Bolton will be a good soak test - do we persevere with the same old negative two defensive midfielder based formation or do we take forwards the more positive attacking game we saw yesterday. I'm all for the latter myself as I'm sure most Reds are.
[/quote]

I am, but it's on the back of our two DM's being shit (though Lucas played well yesterday) and us persevering with the same two DM system for the best part of 15 months.
[/quote]

Which never ever benefited us :s
 
Lucas is growing on me, he was great for Brazil the other week and I keep forgetting how young he still is..

Aged 23 he has bags of potential.. Despite the odd mare..

Lucas Meireles

Kuyt Gerrard Cole

Torres

Isn't too shabby.. I'd prefer someone a bit more dynamic than Kuyt but with GlenJo behind him that's less of a worry..


Team Optimism!
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=42418.msg1205537#msg1205537 date=1288017706]
The fact that Roy is proving so bloody conservative in the main might just work in his favour over the coming weeks.

There's zero chance he'll change a winning side after the side he's had so we will most probably see an unchanged side against Bolton. The Lucas/Meireles partnership will hopefully be given time to gel and Gerrard is restored in behind Torres for a run of games. As much as Joe Cole isn't wholly suited to the left, a run of games there might also help him to settle.

We might just have a chance of turning this around.
[/quote]

I'm not sure I agree with that, when he's tried to be conservative I think we've looked shit and most of the time failed, against Arsenal and Blackburn I thought we looked alot more up for it and we benefited in the performances.
 
wasn't holding a high line and pressing hard and fast for the ball rafa's MO (modus operandi) ?

so we got rid of a manager who used to hold a high line and press for the ball and are lauding a performance from the new manager (who has been struggling for months) for changing his usual (shite) tactics to what the old manager used to do?


that's frigging marvelous...
 
They aren't 'lauding' his performance, they're just happy he managd to win a game.

And hush up, or I'll talk about the Spider RiiseRafa theorem again.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42418.msg1205542#msg1205542 date=1288018190]
wasn't holding a high line and pressing hard and fast for the ball rafa's MO (modus operandi) ?

so we got rid of a manager who used to hold a high line and press for the ball and are lauding a performance from the new manager (who has been struggling for months) for changing his usual (shite) tactics to what the old manager used to do?


that's frigging marvelous...
[/quote]

Don't be so fucking myopic. And if that's the case, why did you used to bemoan the old managers tactics all the time, the ones that left poor Glen Johnson high and dry because it wasn't attacking enough? We pressed and fought for the ball and played some good stuff and did the basic things we haven't been doing, that's got fuck all to do with Rafa or his tactics, it's what most fans want to see from their team at home, or at least it's back on the right track anyway.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42418.msg1205546#msg1205546 date=1288018607]
They aren't 'lauding' his performance, they're just happy he managd to win a game.

And hush up, or I'll talk about the Spider RiiseRafa theorem again.
[/quote]

I'm going to go away and have a long think about how the two instances are different 😉
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42418.msg1205550#msg1205550 date=1288018955]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42418.msg1205542#msg1205542 date=1288018190]
wasn't holding a high line and pressing hard and fast for the ball rafa's MO (modus operandi) ?

so we got rid of a manager who used to hold a high line and press for the ball and are lauding a performance from the new manager (who has been struggling for months) for changing his usual (shite) tactics to what the old manager used to do?


that's frigging marvelous...
[/quote]

Don't be so fucking myopic. And if that's the case, why did you used to bemoan the old managers tactics all the time, the ones that left poor Glen Johnson high and dry because it wasn't attacking enough? We pressed and fought for the ball and played some good stuff and did the basic things we haven't been doing, that's got fuck all to do with Rafa or his tactics, it's what most fans want to see from their team at home, or at least it's back on the right track anyway.
[/quote]

don't get me wrong it was a good performance but if that's what we were looking for then we should have stuck with with we had.

I loved rafa *mwah!!*

but;
a) he took to long to make subs
b) away from home we were content to let the opposition dictate the pace of the game
c) we often took our foot off the paddle when we took the lead

other than that I thought rafa was a terrific manager and it's a little funny (and by funny I actually mean tragic) that we've gone backwards with antiquated tactics and are praising the very tactics the old manager use to utilise most weekends, like we were bored of water, went through the desert and were given a glass of water after days without it and hailing that glass of water as the best thing we ever drank, an exaggeration but still.
 
[quote author=JimmyK link=topic=42418.msg1205521#msg1205521 date=1288016149]
Of course, after the abject start to the season, there’s no leeway now. That’s the problem; one good performance doesn’t undo that damage. The Reds remain in the relegation zone with exactly one-quarter of the season gone, with a goal difference of -5. In any other season that would be utterly unthinkable.

[/quote]

Are you sure about that, Jimmy?
 
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=42418.msg1205587#msg1205587 date=1288024552]
[quote author=JimmyK link=topic=42418.msg1205521#msg1205521 date=1288016149]
Of course, after the abject start to the season, there’s no leeway now. That’s the problem; one good performance doesn’t undo that damage. The Reds remain in the relegation zone with exactly one-quarter of the season gone, with a goal difference of -5. In any other season that would be utterly unthinkable.

[/quote]

Are you sure about that, Jimmy?
[/quote]

9/38 is 23.6842105 rounded up to 24% so no not quite a quarter but as good as!
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42418.msg1205598#msg1205598 date=1288025770]
Wilko is very picky.
[/quote]

Thought perhaps Jimmy thought the season was played over 36 games.
 
Read on another site that apperantly the players had a meeting for the game, without Hodgson.

Don't know if thats true or not, but the performance yesterday was very unlike anything we've seen so far. The team was pushed much higher up the field and we were pressing...
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=42418.msg1205605#msg1205605 date=1288026046]
Read on another site that apperantly the players had a meeting for the game, without Hodgson.

Don't know if thats true or not, but the performance yesterday was very unlike anything we've seen so far. The team was pushed much higher up the field and we were pressing...
[/quote]
I read that on TIA.
Is that where you read it too Hans?
To be fair it sounds like made up bollocks, probably started by the most extreme element of the "Roy out" brigade who wouldn't countenance giving him any credit for yesterdays win.
If it were true then surely it would be a fatal blow for Roy as it would indicate he has completly lost the team and is on his last legs.
 
Yeah mate, I read it there aswell. Could probably be bollocks, but there was another story today aswell were it said that Roy had admitted that he had made some mistakes tactically. And corrected them for the BBurn game. Maybe the truth is somewhere in between the two stories.
 
After the start Roy made, he can only get better.

Yesterday we looked a little like the Liverpool we know. Continue like that and we're on our way. Roy has it all to do to win the fans over.
 
I'm very cautious about drawing any conclusions from this result.

First of all, Blackburn are a poor team who played about the worst type of football you could against us. They made all sorts of awful errors, and were slow to close down almost all the time. When they actually bothered playing for 20 mins, we looked out of sorts.
 
Not to mention that both their regular CBs were missing (though that Phil Jones is a good player in the making IMO). I hate to agree with Allardyce, but he pointed to that as a factor in both goals and it's hard to argue with him.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=42418.msg1205680#msg1205680 date=1288030948]
Yeah mate, I read it there aswell. Could probably be bollocks, but there was another story today aswell were it said that Roy had admitted that he had made some mistakes tactically. And corrected them for the BBurn game. Maybe the truth is somewhere in between the two stories.
[/quote]

Manager Carra?
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=42418.msg1205700#msg1205700 date=1288032567]
I'm very cautious about drawing any conclusions from this result.

First of all, Blackburn are a poor team who played about the worst type of football you could against us. They made all sorts of awful errors, and were slow to close down almost all the time. When they actually bothered playing for 20 mins, we looked out of sorts.
[/quote]

That's what scared me the most. I can handle that feeling in a CL Semi final against a top team, not against 19th place in the Premier League..
 
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