Why can't our defenders defend anymore?
- Thread starter Whaddapie
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I'll try.
Carragher has gone backwards.
Skrtel is not as good as people on this site think he is.
Agger & Aurelio are perma-injured.
Glen Johnson and Insua are suspect defensively.
Kyrgiakos is 1000 times worse than Sami as a back up.
Combine them all, and you have an answer.
Carragher has gone backwards.
Skrtel is not as good as people on this site think he is.
Agger & Aurelio are perma-injured.
Glen Johnson and Insua are suspect defensively.
Kyrgiakos is 1000 times worse than Sami as a back up.
Combine them all, and you have an answer.
Well it's not the same defence is it ?
Last season our first choice was arguably - Aurelio Agger Carragher Arbeloa. Of that quartet i would only regard one of them as a little bit suspect defensively.
Tonight we had - Insua Kyrgiakos Agger Carragher. Two of those are suspect defensively and a third is in a position he's uncomfortable in.
Last season our first choice was arguably - Aurelio Agger Carragher Arbeloa. Of that quartet i would only regard one of them as a little bit suspect defensively.
Tonight we had - Insua Kyrgiakos Agger Carragher. Two of those are suspect defensively and a third is in a position he's uncomfortable in.
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36947.msg979287#msg979287 date=1257372080]
Agger is our best defender, we look so much better at least with him in than the other jokers
we're playing teenagers and the greek, it's not going to work in the CL, you need experienced top defenders who keep going for 95 minutes
[/quote]
Agger missed the ball badly for the goal too
Agger is our best defender, we look so much better at least with him in than the other jokers
we're playing teenagers and the greek, it's not going to work in the CL, you need experienced top defenders who keep going for 95 minutes
[/quote]
Agger missed the ball badly for the goal too
How about the fact that due to injuries we've been forced to chop and change nearly every fucking game this season.... maybe...
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36947.msg979291#msg979291 date=1257372117]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36947.msg979287#msg979287 date=1257372080]
Agger is our best defender, we look so much better at least with him in than the other jokers
we're playing teenagers and the greek, it's not going to work in the CL, you need experienced top defenders who keep going for 95 minutes
[/quote]
Agger missed the ball badly for the goal too
[/quote]
Agger had no chance.
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36947.msg979287#msg979287 date=1257372080]
Agger is our best defender, we look so much better at least with him in than the other jokers
we're playing teenagers and the greek, it's not going to work in the CL, you need experienced top defenders who keep going for 95 minutes
[/quote]
Agger missed the ball badly for the goal too
[/quote]
Agger had no chance.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36947.msg979275#msg979275 date=1257371933]
Well it's not the same defence is it ?
Last season our first choice was arguably - Aurelio Agger Carragher Arbeloa. Of that quartet i would only regard one of them as a little bit suspect defensively.
Tonight we had - Insua Kyrgiakos Agger Carragher. Two of those are suspect defensively and a third is in a position he's uncomfortable in.
[/quote]
Three, the way Carra has been playing this season.
Well it's not the same defence is it ?
Last season our first choice was arguably - Aurelio Agger Carragher Arbeloa. Of that quartet i would only regard one of them as a little bit suspect defensively.
Tonight we had - Insua Kyrgiakos Agger Carragher. Two of those are suspect defensively and a third is in a position he's uncomfortable in.
[/quote]
Three, the way Carra has been playing this season.
T
the_khl
Guest
I don't think Agger had the best of games tonight at all, he looked a bit rusty when on the ball, but the Greek fella playing besides him looked lost for air after the 60 minute mark.
And as Molby just said in the Danish aftermatch studio; I don't even think he likes to play football.
We are in desperate need to get a chance to play Johnson, Carra, Agger and Insua/Aurelio for a prolonged period of time.
Desperate.
I'm utterly gutted by tonights result. We've now conceeded TWICE within extratime against Lyon. Unbelievable really and pretty hard justice after all.
And as Molby just said in the Danish aftermatch studio; I don't even think he likes to play football.
We are in desperate need to get a chance to play Johnson, Carra, Agger and Insua/Aurelio for a prolonged period of time.
Desperate.
I'm utterly gutted by tonights result. We've now conceeded TWICE within extratime against Lyon. Unbelievable really and pretty hard justice after all.
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=36947.msg979303#msg979303 date=1257372270]
How about the fact that due to injuries we've been forced to chop and change nearly every fucking game this season.... maybe...
[/quote]
So that means that those we have been able to call upon shouldn't have to stop their man drifting into the 6 yard box to score unchallanged or shouldn't be able to just put it in the f#$!ing street when defending a one goal lead with seconds remaining?
How about the fact that due to injuries we've been forced to chop and change nearly every fucking game this season.... maybe...
[/quote]
So that means that those we have been able to call upon shouldn't have to stop their man drifting into the 6 yard box to score unchallanged or shouldn't be able to just put it in the f#$!ing street when defending a one goal lead with seconds remaining?
Because our manager has bought in players who can never stay fit long enough to gel or form an understanding.
Why play the Greek, he clearly stinks.
May as well give our youth defenders a go. I hope he never plays for us again.
We had Ayala on the bench.
And where does Darby play, RB?
May as well give our youth defenders a go. I hope he never plays for us again.
We had Ayala on the bench.
And where does Darby play, RB?
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36947.msg979693#msg979693 date=1257401705]
Because our manager has bought in players who can never stay fit long enough to gel or form an understanding.
[/quote]
We don't have tons of injury prone players, or training issues. This is probably why we haven't had massive issues any other year under Rafa's tenure, not beyond the sort of thing that happens from year to year. We just have an injury crisis, and a poor CM field partnership. If you want to be mad at Rafa, be mad about the latter.
There is still room for bad luck in football. The strict application of cause-effect relationships to every fucking thing doesn't work in life, and it doesn't work here, especially when people ascribe a single root cause.
Because our manager has bought in players who can never stay fit long enough to gel or form an understanding.
[/quote]
We don't have tons of injury prone players, or training issues. This is probably why we haven't had massive issues any other year under Rafa's tenure, not beyond the sort of thing that happens from year to year. We just have an injury crisis, and a poor CM field partnership. If you want to be mad at Rafa, be mad about the latter.
There is still room for bad luck in football. The strict application of cause-effect relationships to every fucking thing doesn't work in life, and it doesn't work here, especially when people ascribe a single root cause.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36947.msg979704#msg979704 date=1257406288]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36947.msg979693#msg979693 date=1257401705]
Because our manager has bought in players who can never stay fit long enough to gel or form an understanding.
[/quote]
We don't have tons of injury prone players, or training issues. This is probably why we haven't had massive issues any other year under Rafa's tenure, not beyond the sort of thing that happens from year to year. We just have an injury crisis, and a poor CM field partnership. If you want to be mad at Rafa, be mad about the latter.
There is still room for bad luck in football. The strict application of cause-effect relationships to every fucking thing doesn't work in life, and it doesn't work here, especially when people ascribe a single root cause.
[/quote]
You're clutching at straws Fark.
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36947.msg979693#msg979693 date=1257401705]
Because our manager has bought in players who can never stay fit long enough to gel or form an understanding.
[/quote]
We don't have tons of injury prone players, or training issues. This is probably why we haven't had massive issues any other year under Rafa's tenure, not beyond the sort of thing that happens from year to year. We just have an injury crisis, and a poor CM field partnership. If you want to be mad at Rafa, be mad about the latter.
There is still room for bad luck in football. The strict application of cause-effect relationships to every fucking thing doesn't work in life, and it doesn't work here, especially when people ascribe a single root cause.
[/quote]
You're clutching at straws Fark.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36947.msg979707#msg979707 date=1257406670]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36947.msg979704#msg979704 date=1257406288]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36947.msg979693#msg979693 date=1257401705]
Because our manager has bought in players who can never stay fit long enough to gel or form an understanding.
[/quote]
We don't have tons of injury prone players, or training issues. This is probably why we haven't had massive issues any other year under Rafa's tenure, not beyond the sort of thing that happens from year to year. We just have an injury crisis, and a poor CM field partnership. If you want to be mad at Rafa, be mad about the latter.
There is still room for bad luck in football. The strict application of cause-effect relationships to every fucking thing doesn't work in life, and it doesn't work here, especially when people ascribe a single root cause.
[/quote]
You're clutching at straws Fark.
[/quote]
I'm clutching at straws? If our injury difficulties cannot be ascribed to bad luck, how do you explain them, other than using lazy correlation which ignores the fact that we haven't had issues of this severity at any other time during Rafa's reign.
A massive portion of blame goes to Rafa's for the position we are in, because he made a gamble on a player, or more importantly, our ability to cover that position and make do with Lucas. These are things I thought would hurt us, and cripple our title challenge this year.
I did not think we'd go on the type of losing run we have, and a big part of this is that we are in an injury crisis which which has exacerbated these flaws. This injury involves a certain confluence of random factors, which are out of the management team's control.
Again, I think there's room for bad luck.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36947.msg979704#msg979704 date=1257406288]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36947.msg979693#msg979693 date=1257401705]
Because our manager has bought in players who can never stay fit long enough to gel or form an understanding.
[/quote]
We don't have tons of injury prone players, or training issues. This is probably why we haven't had massive issues any other year under Rafa's tenure, not beyond the sort of thing that happens from year to year. We just have an injury crisis, and a poor CM field partnership. If you want to be mad at Rafa, be mad about the latter.
There is still room for bad luck in football. The strict application of cause-effect relationships to every fucking thing doesn't work in life, and it doesn't work here, especially when people ascribe a single root cause.
[/quote]
You're clutching at straws Fark.
[/quote]
I'm clutching at straws? If our injury difficulties cannot be ascribed to bad luck, how do you explain them, other than using lazy correlation which ignores the fact that we haven't had issues of this severity at any other time during Rafa's reign.
A massive portion of blame goes to Rafa's for the position we are in, because he made a gamble on a player, or more importantly, our ability to cover that position and make do with Lucas. These are things I thought would hurt us, and cripple our title challenge this year.
I did not think we'd go on the type of losing run we have, and a big part of this is that we are in an injury crisis which which has exacerbated these flaws. This injury involves a certain confluence of random factors, which are out of the management team's control.
Again, I think there's room for bad luck.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36947.msg979710#msg979710 date=1257407275]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36947.msg979707#msg979707 date=1257406670]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36947.msg979704#msg979704 date=1257406288]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36947.msg979693#msg979693 date=1257401705]
Because our manager has bought in players who can never stay fit long enough to gel or form an understanding.
[/quote]
We don't have tons of injury prone players, or training issues. This is probably why we haven't had massive issues any other year under Rafa's tenure, not beyond the sort of thing that happens from year to year. We just have an injury crisis, and a poor CM field partnership. If you want to be mad at Rafa, be mad about the latter.
There is still room for bad luck in football. The strict application of cause-effect relationships to every fucking thing doesn't work in life, and it doesn't work here, especially when people ascribe a single root cause.
[/quote]
You're clutching at straws Fark.
[/quote]
I'm clutching at straws? If our injury difficulties cannot be ascribed to bad luck, how do you explain them, other than using lazy correlation which ignores the fact that we haven't had issues of this severity at any other time during Rafa's reign.
A massive portion of blame goes to Rafa's for the position we are in, because he made a gamble on a player, or more importantly, our ability to cover that position and make do with Lucas. These are things I thought would hurt us, and cripple our title challenge this year.
I did not think we'd go on the type of losing run we have, and a big part of this is that we are in an injury crisis which which has exacerbated these flaws. This injury involves a certain confluence of random factors, which are out of the management team's control.
Again, I think there's room for bad luck.
[/quote]
Didn't we change our fitness coaches this summer ?
That and the fact that we've signed a number of injury prone players during Rafa's time means that bad decision making plays a bigger part in our problems than bad luck.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36947.msg979707#msg979707 date=1257406670]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36947.msg979704#msg979704 date=1257406288]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36947.msg979693#msg979693 date=1257401705]
Because our manager has bought in players who can never stay fit long enough to gel or form an understanding.
[/quote]
We don't have tons of injury prone players, or training issues. This is probably why we haven't had massive issues any other year under Rafa's tenure, not beyond the sort of thing that happens from year to year. We just have an injury crisis, and a poor CM field partnership. If you want to be mad at Rafa, be mad about the latter.
There is still room for bad luck in football. The strict application of cause-effect relationships to every fucking thing doesn't work in life, and it doesn't work here, especially when people ascribe a single root cause.
[/quote]
You're clutching at straws Fark.
[/quote]
I'm clutching at straws? If our injury difficulties cannot be ascribed to bad luck, how do you explain them, other than using lazy correlation which ignores the fact that we haven't had issues of this severity at any other time during Rafa's reign.
A massive portion of blame goes to Rafa's for the position we are in, because he made a gamble on a player, or more importantly, our ability to cover that position and make do with Lucas. These are things I thought would hurt us, and cripple our title challenge this year.
I did not think we'd go on the type of losing run we have, and a big part of this is that we are in an injury crisis which which has exacerbated these flaws. This injury involves a certain confluence of random factors, which are out of the management team's control.
Again, I think there's room for bad luck.
[/quote]
Didn't we change our fitness coaches this summer ?
That and the fact that we've signed a number of injury prone players during Rafa's time means that bad decision making plays a bigger part in our problems than bad luck.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36947.msg979714#msg979714 date=1257407663]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36947.msg979710#msg979710 date=1257407275]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36947.msg979707#msg979707 date=1257406670]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36947.msg979704#msg979704 date=1257406288]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36947.msg979693#msg979693 date=1257401705]
Because our manager has bought in players who can never stay fit long enough to gel or form an understanding.
[/quote]
We don't have tons of injury prone players, or training issues. This is probably why we haven't had massive issues any other year under Rafa's tenure, not beyond the sort of thing that happens from year to year. We just have an injury crisis, and a poor CM field partnership. If you want to be mad at Rafa, be mad about the latter.
There is still room for bad luck in football. The strict application of cause-effect relationships to every fucking thing doesn't work in life, and it doesn't work here, especially when people ascribe a single root cause.
[/quote]
You're clutching at straws Fark.
[/quote]
I'm clutching at straws? If our injury difficulties cannot be ascribed to bad luck, how do you explain them, other than using lazy correlation which ignores the fact that we haven't had issues of this severity at any other time during Rafa's reign.
A massive portion of blame goes to Rafa's for the position we are in, because he made a gamble on a player, or more importantly, our ability to cover that position and make do with Lucas. These are things I thought would hurt us, and cripple our title challenge this year.
I did not think we'd go on the type of losing run we have, and a big part of this is that we are in an injury crisis which which has exacerbated these flaws. This injury involves a certain confluence of random factors, which are out of the management team's control.
Again, I think there's room for bad luck.
[/quote]
Didn't we change our fitness coaches this summer ?
That and the fact that we've signed a number of injury prone players during Rafa's time means that bad decision making plays a bigger part in our problems than bad luck.
[/quote]
I said "other than using lazy correlation". You have no clue what if anything has changed in how we deal with injuries, or training, some of which occured on international duty.
All you have is idle speculation.
I'd love to hear an interesting article going into why we are having these issues due to a different philosophy in managing injury and training, but there isn't one. I've not got my head in the sand, but I'd like to deal in information rather than musings.
Why don't we keep the arguments over why we are in the shit to this known information, there's plenty there, as opposed to the illogical flailing that comes to be internet truthiness by way of repetition. This speculation on why we are having injuries is precisely that.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36947.msg979710#msg979710 date=1257407275]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36947.msg979707#msg979707 date=1257406670]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36947.msg979704#msg979704 date=1257406288]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36947.msg979693#msg979693 date=1257401705]
Because our manager has bought in players who can never stay fit long enough to gel or form an understanding.
[/quote]
We don't have tons of injury prone players, or training issues. This is probably why we haven't had massive issues any other year under Rafa's tenure, not beyond the sort of thing that happens from year to year. We just have an injury crisis, and a poor CM field partnership. If you want to be mad at Rafa, be mad about the latter.
There is still room for bad luck in football. The strict application of cause-effect relationships to every fucking thing doesn't work in life, and it doesn't work here, especially when people ascribe a single root cause.
[/quote]
You're clutching at straws Fark.
[/quote]
I'm clutching at straws? If our injury difficulties cannot be ascribed to bad luck, how do you explain them, other than using lazy correlation which ignores the fact that we haven't had issues of this severity at any other time during Rafa's reign.
A massive portion of blame goes to Rafa's for the position we are in, because he made a gamble on a player, or more importantly, our ability to cover that position and make do with Lucas. These are things I thought would hurt us, and cripple our title challenge this year.
I did not think we'd go on the type of losing run we have, and a big part of this is that we are in an injury crisis which which has exacerbated these flaws. This injury involves a certain confluence of random factors, which are out of the management team's control.
Again, I think there's room for bad luck.
[/quote]
Didn't we change our fitness coaches this summer ?
That and the fact that we've signed a number of injury prone players during Rafa's time means that bad decision making plays a bigger part in our problems than bad luck.
[/quote]
I said "other than using lazy correlation". You have no clue what if anything has changed in how we deal with injuries, or training, some of which occured on international duty.
All you have is idle speculation.
I'd love to hear an interesting article going into why we are having these issues due to a different philosophy in managing injury and training, but there isn't one. I've not got my head in the sand, but I'd like to deal in information rather than musings.
Why don't we keep the arguments over why we are in the shit to this known information, there's plenty there, as opposed to the illogical flailing that comes to be internet truthiness by way of repetition. This speculation on why we are having injuries is precisely that.
We deserved nothing out of the game and Rafael's failure to make a change earlier in the game meant the only reason we even got a point was Babel's rocket.
Lyon will be a match for anyone as long as Lisandro plays upfront and Pranjic is fit.
And while i think out it, the Greek tragedy proved tonight that he's another one of Rafa's masterpieces in the transfer market. What a disaster! Daniel Agger had given a masterclass in defending throughout the game, and carried him for 88 minutes, he had 2 things to do in the entire game and he made a mess of both of them!
Lyon will be a match for anyone as long as Lisandro plays upfront and Pranjic is fit.
And while i think out it, the Greek tragedy proved tonight that he's another one of Rafa's masterpieces in the transfer market. What a disaster! Daniel Agger had given a masterclass in defending throughout the game, and carried him for 88 minutes, he had 2 things to do in the entire game and he made a mess of both of them!
[quote author=Glock link=topic=36947.msg979741#msg979741 date=1257410105]
We deserved nothing out of the game and Rafael's failure to make a change earlier in the game meant the only reason we even got a point was Babel's rocket.
Lyon will be a match for anyone as long as Lisandro plays upfront and Pranjic is fit.
And while i think out it, the Greek tragedy proved tonight that he's another one of Rafa's masterpieces in the transfer market. What a disaster! Daniel Agger had given a masterclass in defending throughout the game, and carried him for 88 minutes, he had 2 things to do in the entire game and he made a mess of both of them!
[/quote]
Fucking hell, what game were you watching then?
We deserved nothing out of the game and Rafael's failure to make a change earlier in the game meant the only reason we even got a point was Babel's rocket.
Lyon will be a match for anyone as long as Lisandro plays upfront and Pranjic is fit.
And while i think out it, the Greek tragedy proved tonight that he's another one of Rafa's masterpieces in the transfer market. What a disaster! Daniel Agger had given a masterclass in defending throughout the game, and carried him for 88 minutes, he had 2 things to do in the entire game and he made a mess of both of them!
[/quote]
Fucking hell, what game were you watching then?
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