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What's next for central defense?

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rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
This season our central defense has experienced many changes and while there have been some encouraging developments, I think it's fair to say that Rodgers has not found the winning formula yet. Let's assess this season first:

The challenges:
- Carra's retirement left a big leadership void
- A new goalkeeper with a different playing style and a different set of strengths and weaknesses
- Agger is becoming progressively slower and his positional sense can't always compensate for that
- 2 new CBs who needed time to adapt to the new team and (in Sakho's case) the league
- A permanent season-long injury crisis at the wings of the defense, which resulted in CBs sometimes having to play out of position and to adjust to many different partners on both wings

The good news:
- Skrtel found a new level as a player and had his best season at the club.

Mixed bag:
- Sakho showed his huge promise as well as his erratic side. He is individually stronger than Agger, but the partnership with Skrtel doesn't work too well (1 clean sheet in 17 games together says it all).
- Toure has partially replaced the leadership qualities of Carra, but also undermined his contribution by some comical errors.
- Mignolet has won the trust of his defenders by his shot-stopping ability (as opposed to Reina's last couple of seasons), but hasn't commanded the penalty area well enough, leaving his defenders guessing whenever a high cross comes in.

The defensive puzzle is clearly missing some pieces. And some pieces look redundant. As Carra said on MNF a few days ago, it's clear that Rodgers is not the biggest fan of Agger. His lack of speed and only average physicality means that even a slightest positional mistake results in a total defensive breakdown. One move and he is out of the picture. I am sorry to say it, but if Agger ever was a world-class defender, he is not any more and it's probably better for everyone if leaves for a less ambitious team where he can still play the leading role.

I think Skrtel is clearly staying. Despite some mistakes he's been magnificent this season overall and he has earned his place in the team. Obviously Sakho is staying and lets hope he can polish his rough edges a bit and settle down better next season. Toure might stay or go or finish his career – either way it's not going to make much difference as he is a bit-part player at this point anyway. In any case, I wouldn't say this has been a lost season for our defense – before last summer we feared that all 4 of our CBs (Skrtel, Agger, Carra and Coates) needed to be replaced. After this season we have 2 pieces of the puzzle to work with and a potential 3rd in Ilori, now we need to add 1-2 more to make it all work as a unit.

We've been linked to a few CBs ahead of the transfer window:

Steven Caulker RCB, 22 (Cardiff)
Dejan Lovren RCB, 24 (Southampton)
Martin Hinteregger LCB, 21 (Salzburg)
Jan Vertonghen LCB/LB, 27 (Spurs)
Kyriakos Papadopulos RCB, 21 (Schalke)

Look at the list above: who among this lot could take our central defense to a new level?

I think Caulker seems like a no-brainer from a cost/benefit perspective: young, physical, tough, with good leadership qualities (already the captain at 22), will go for cheap from a relegated team. I think if we are looking for an understudy/competition to both Skrtel and Sakho, he is an ideal candidate. However I doubt he will take our defensive organization to the new level – at 22, coming to a new team, he will not tell Skrtel what to do or tear into Johnson after he loses concentration.

Lovren seems to me like a very good, quiet move. It was impressive how quickly he became the defensive leader at Southampton and his partnership with Fonte is arguably one of the top 5 in the land right now. He could have the intelligence and observation skills to complement Skrtel or Sakho's style well and create another strong defensive partnership here.

Hinteregger I don't know much about, but we are probably just monitoring his development at this point. Even if he grows into the new Hyypia, it would probably be better to buy him a few years later, not pluck him out of Austria at 21 and expect him to solve all our defensive problems.

Verthongen did not have the best of seasons and his value now is probably just about reasonable (whereas after last season Levi would have asked for the moon). Let's overlook the mediocre season (where he had to play half of the games at LB god knows why), the quality is still there and he is entering his prime years at 27. I think he is exactly the kind of player who could transform our defense and bring a new level of calmness, class and consistency.

Papadopulous is a long-term target and his value is also in the "reasonable" territory following a long injury layoff. But I think his chances to come here are more hurt by Skrtel's resurgence. They are both RCBs, fairly similar in playing style and as a younger player, and coming from another league to boot, Papadopulous would not be able to show his leadership qualities he is famous for.

Let's also not forget about Ilori and Wisdom who might be coming back from their loans. That's another reason why I feel buying a younger CB now is not the top priority; I'd rather buy a mature master who could teach those kids how to defend.

So from this list I would definitely mark Vertonghen as my #1 priority and Lovren just below. I would buy Caulker if the price is good and depending on how Ilori and Wisdom are progressing, whether one of them or both will be brought back to the club and require playing time. I would also look at more experienced CBs from around other leagues to give us more options besides Vertonghen and Lovren. I didn't see any stories linking us with him, but, for instance, Mehdi Benatia from Roma could also fit the same profile.
 
I'd say Benatia would be in the 20 million plus bracket now after the season he's after having.
Terrific defender mind.
 
Lovren would be my first choice if we could get him for around £12m. Cracking first season in the PL and used to the league and physicality so I reckon he'd bed in quicker than others coming from a different league
 
I would definitely buy one absolutely stellar centre half, ideally under 25, to be the long term leader of the defence. I'm not sure who's out there but I'd devote at least £20m to finding that player. I'd also definitely sell Agger to offset the cost.

I think that much is clear.

Ideally I'd also sell Sakho and buy a new guy to replace him, but I doubt that will happen and I can understand why not.
 
Interesting. You guys have a feeling? Is it the blond hair that reminds people of Hyypia? Or "agger" (although it's really "egger") in the name?
 
The only one I have total confidence in is Ilori and that's only because I've never seen him play. I can't understand why Rodgers didn't play him in the reserves this season.
 
I don't think the central defenders themselves are the main cause of the amount of goals we've shipped.

Our style of play, pushing the full backs up and a keeper who doesn't command his area have a lot to do with it. Added to the fact we didn't have a consistent pairing at CB.
 
Hinteragger for me to. Don't know why.

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I don't think the central defenders themselves are the main cause of the amount of goals we've shipped.

Our style of play, pushing the full backs up and a keeper who doesn't command his area have a lot to do with it. Added to the fact we didn't have a consistent pairing at CB.

Thank fuck for that.

It seems like almost every person I speak to is toeing this line given by the lazy pundits, it makes me wonder how much they actually watch us.
 
I don't think the central defenders themselves are the main cause of the amount of goals we've shipped.

Our style of play, pushing the full backs up and a keeper who doesn't command his area have a lot to do with it. Added to the fact we didn't have a consistent pairing at CB.

Some posters said they kept playing to deep leaving too much space between the midfield, IF that is correct who's at fault? Who do we have fast enough to catch the likes of Toure if they do play high?
No one seems to be in charge is my main point.
 
Some of the goals we've conceded have been the fault of the team as a whole, however the number of individual errors can't be excused by "style of play" or anything else really.

I don't think the problem will be fully solved by simply replacing a couple of our defenders but it'll definitely help.
 
Fortunately, Rodgers doesn't think it's the way we play but the quality of the player splaying in defence or, as he calls it, concentration.
"If you can't keep your concentration long enough, you'll lose your place. It's as simple as that - you'll lose your place in the squad.
"We've played in big games this season and showed real solidity defensively - but we went away to Cardiff and yes, we scored six goals, but we conceded three; went away to Stoke, scored five and conceded three; Palace three; Hull three.
"Yes, there's an element of quality from the opponent, but I look at and analyse the game intensely and a big part of it is concentration - organisation, concentrating on your job.
"The game the other night, if it was 0-0 we wouldn't have conceded the first goal we did. But because it was 3-0, you can think the game is over - and you can't give people what they don't have. That's also important to understand.
 
Its really just away from home where we have struggled defensively, we have had the odd blip at home but thats to be expected, you are never going to be perfect the way we play.

Conceded 17 at home - 4th best, thats fine especially when you consider the amount of goals we score at home.

Conceded 32 away - WBA and Hull who are in 16th and 17th place have conceded the same amount, Palace and West Ham have conceded just 23, Villa, Swansea and Newcastle along with all the top 8 have conceded less than us away from home.
 
I would definitely buy one absolutely stellar centre half, ideally under 25, to be the long term leader of the defence. I'm not sure who's out there but I'd devote at least £20m to finding that player. I'd also definitely sell Agger to offset the cost.

I think that much is clear.

Ideally I'd also sell Sakho and buy a new guy to replace him, but I doubt that will happen and I can understand why not.

Thats what we done last summer, or tried to do, whatever way you look at it.
 
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