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What worries me ...

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LeTallecWiz

Doos
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From what I watched last night:

- Torres is still well short of fitness. It's so obvious. He wants to help us so badly but I'm not sure playing him now, even though we're devoid of options, is the smartest thing for the lad.

- Lucas is not capable of playing in a 4-4-2. We can mask his deficiencies in a 4-2-3-1 but not a 4-4-2. He's just not a very good football and I don't care what RAWK tells me

- Ngog had a poor game. I still don't see HOW people want him dropped when we have so few goalscoring options. Who else can score besides him? Gerrard? Torres? Kuyt? That's it people ... We need him there b/c at least he's capable of scoring a goal, or two.

- Jovanovic is a Kuyt with speed. I like him but to have him AND kuyt on the wing is giving us the same problem that we had with Rafa the past few years. Both will give 110% on the pitch but is that really enough?

- Magic ... What happened to him? That's two games where he rarely attacked. Odd.

- I'm glad we no longer have to worry about Gerrard. He's back to his old self, and that means I'm feeling even more sorry for him. It's just not a very good team. But what can you do when your fucking owners won't let you even spend 15 million quid.

Ideas to perhaps turn it around:

- If we're going to go with a 4-4-2, put Babel in (either next to Torres or on the wrong). I know I know, he's dumb as fuck blah blah blah and Ngog works far harder than him, but he's capable of scoring goals and scaring the opposition.

- Put Magic on the right wing and start Kelly at RB.

- the middle should always be Gerrard + Poulson/Mascher.
 
I want N'gog dropped because he's a clueless footballer. He has no strength, game intelligence or ball control. Every single time the ball is played to his feet, he gets shrugged of it. It's almost a pity he has pace. That and his ability to get into goalscoring positions are the only things keeping him in the side. Unfortunately, they're not very handy qualities to have when you're absolute shit at everything else.

Goals will NOT be a problem for us when Torres and Gerrard are both fit. What will be a problem is putting out a team that suits their strengths. The 4-4-2 does not. Torres has time and again struggled for Spain with someone alongside him. His greatest strength is using the spaces anad playing off the defenders' shoulders. You're taking away that dimension completely when you play someone alongside him. Spain get away because that player is Villa who scores himself. We have fucking N'gog. Torres is our best goalscoring threat and to make sure he plays well, he needs someone behind him, not alongside. That player should be Cole and if Cole is injured or absent, the only similar player left in the squad is Pacheco. Play him.

Don't credit Roy for balls for starting with N'gog alongside Torres. If anything it demonstrated a stupidity and lack of knowledge of his own player's strengths. Had he given Pacheco his debut, I would have agreed. But don't give me that nonsense of how starting with 2 strikers is a bold move. It's not.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41561.msg1160558#msg1160558 date=1282626852]

Don't credit Roy for balls for starting with N'gog alongside Torres. If anything it demonstrated a stupidity and lack of knowledge of his own player's strengths. Had he given Pacheco his debut, I would have agreed. But don't give me that nonsense of how starting with 2 strikers is a bold move. It's not.
[/quote]

I assume you watched Pacheco's minutes last year in the Premier League ... he looked pathetic. Now you want to throw him against a gigantic team playing with 7 defensive players, over a striker who's just scored 4 goals in 3 games (which should have won all 3)? Yah, ok.
 
You're judging Pacheco on the garbage minutes he got last season? And yes, I'd happily play Pacecho over N'gog.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41561.msg1160579#msg1160579 date=1282628886]
You're judging Pacheco on the garbage minutes he got last season? And yes, I'd happily play Pacecho over N'gog.
[/quote]

You're judging him on what? His u21 minutes? Did you watch Ngog embarass the England u21s? Ngog has scored goals when he's played. So yes, he's not as strong as his frame should allow him to be (Pacheco defo is), he's not as intelligent as he could be and he could be better.

If anything the 4-4-2 should be Kuyt with Torres.

Pacheco should only be thrown in for shit teams (if such a term exists for us).
 
The thing is we lacked last night what was painfully abvious last season aswell;

-Gaping hole in midfield. Lucas just isn't good enough at this level, and it pains me to see him in our line up. I said before the game that we would get run through with ease. And true enough, the City players just ran past him.

-No ability to hold the ball up. Countless of times we just gave it away. N'Gog was the worst, and showed that he has got a couple of years left before being able to handle that role. We desperatly need a big powerful striker that Torres can play off.

- No natural left back. Agger got found out last night. Again and again.

-No wingers that can make things happen on their own. Kuyt is to slow, and when his touch isn't there he hasn't got anything in his locker.
Jovanovic was taken with ease out of the game, and struggled all game.

-Luck. Good to see that our good fortune is continuing from last season. We just can't catch a break.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=41561.msg1160587#msg1160587 date=1282630286]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41561.msg1160579#msg1160579 date=1282628886]
You're judging Pacheco on the garbage minutes he got last season? And yes, I'd happily play Pacecho over N'gog.
[/quote]

You're judging him on what? His u21 minutes? Did you watch Ngog embarass the England u21s? Ngog has scored goals when he's played. So yes, he's not as strong as his frame should allow him to be (Pacheco defo is), he's not as intelligent as he could be and he could be better.

If anything the 4-4-2 should be Kuyt with Torres.

Pacheco should only be thrown in for shit teams (if such a term exists for us).
[/quote]

Um, yes. Obviously. What else do I judge him on? Pacheco pisses all over N'gog as far as their youth records are concerned. As far as senior mintues go, Pacheco has had none and there's nothing to compare him with N'gog, I agree. But I do know that N'gog has been largely shit in whatever minutes he's played. Credit to him for the goals he's scored. He'll never be good enough for me, ever.
 
n'gog shouldn't ever be starting besides torres. they are two out and out strikers.
roy could (should?) have used maxi on the right wing and moved kuyt behind torres, you then would have had one genuine wide midfielder and a striker to fetch and carry to the out and out goal scorer. I don't want to turn on kuyt but I'm sick of him on the wing to be honest, if he has to play, fine, but why does he have to play on the wing?

roy obviously likes 4-4-2, I don't think 4-4-2 will work with the likes of kuyt and jove on the flanks.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41561.msg1160592#msg1160592 date=1282630808]
n'gog shouldn't ever be starting besides torres. they are two out and out strikers.
roy could (should?) have used maxi on the right wing and moved kuyt behind torres, you then would have had one genuine wide midfielder and a striker to fetch and carry to the out and out goal scorer. I don't want to turn on kuyt but I'm sick of him on the wing to be honest, if he has to play, fine, but why does he have to play on the wing?
[/quote]

This. We should have started with that and replaced Kuyt with Pacheco had it not been working. I said this way before the game began. Many posters did. Keep N'gog away from the team if Torres is fit. And keep him out for it forever once we've signed a semi-decent backup for Torres.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41561.msg1160591#msg1160591 date=1282630629]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=41561.msg1160587#msg1160587 date=1282630286]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=41561.msg1160579#msg1160579 date=1282628886]
You're judging Pacheco on the garbage minutes he got last season? And yes, I'd happily play Pacecho over N'gog.
[/quote]

You're judging him on what? His u21 minutes? Did you watch Ngog embarass the England u21s? Ngog has scored goals when he's played. So yes, he's not as strong as his frame should allow him to be (Pacheco defo is), he's not as intelligent as he could be and he could be better.

If anything the 4-4-2 should be Kuyt with Torres.

Pacheco should only be thrown in for shit teams (if such a term exists for us).
[/quote]

Um, yes. Obviously. What else do I judge him on? Pacheco pisses all over N'gog as far as their youth records are concerned.

[/quote]

2007 Spain U16 5 (0)
2007–2008 Spain U17 5 (3)
2009 Spain U18 3 (1)
2009–2010 Spain U19 12 (5)


2004–2005 France U16 13 (11)
2005–2006 France U17 6 (2)
2006–2007 France U18 4 (2)
2007 France U19 6 (5)
2008– France U21 12 (1)


I can't see how that's 'pissing all over' Ngog (I don't know if these records are that accurate as I thought Ngog scored a hat trick last year for the Froggie u21s)
 
our major problem last night was winning the ball and creating chances so I really don't think pacheco would have made much difference to be honest
 
Pacheco is not a striker. He's an attacking midfielder or an in the hole forward. So I don't see how you're taking goals scored as a comparison. Pacheco was and always has been way more highly rated than N'gog. Was considered one of Barca's most promising youth players, has been touted by almost everyone on here as the standout in our youth team and reserves, and he's just won the best player at the European u-21 championships. N'gog came from obscurity from PSG. Sure he's scored a few goals here and there. But don't even compare their pedigree. Pacheco might turn out to be shit in the long run. But we'll never know that until he gets to play regularly.
 
What other stats do you want to go by? And Pacheco was the best player in the u19 tourney. He's yet to be capped for the U21.

Ngog was rated in the French youth set up - not as highly as Pacheco was when we got him from Barca obviously.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=41561.msg1160589#msg1160589 date=1282630367]
The thing is we lacked last night what was painfully abvious last season aswell;

-Gaping hole in midfield. Lucas just isn't good enough at this level, and it pains me to see him in our line up. I said before the game that we would get run through with ease. And true enough, the City players just ran past him.

-No ability to hold the ball up. Countless of times we just gave it away. N'Gog was the worst, and showed that he has got a couple of years left before being able to handle that role. We desperatly need a big powerful striker that Torres can play off.

- No natural left back. Agger got found out last night. Again and again.

-No wingers that can make things happen on their own. Kuyt is to slow, and when his touch isn't there he hasn't got anything in his locker.
Jovanovic was taken with ease out of the game, and struggled all game.

-Luck. Good to see that our good fortune is continuing from last season. We just can't catch a break.
[/quote]

Spot on!

The only positive was Gerrard! We are a static team, no width, no creativity and the team lacks confidence. Torres seems to be sulking yet again.

We´re doomed (the SCM mantra).
 
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