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What we really need.

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Wizardry

Wizardry

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So, with the Wolves game still fresh – and raw – in our minds I was thinking what type of players we need in this squad. I don’t want anyone to try and name a player we should sign except as an example of the type of player they’re talking about.

One of the aspects of world team sports that have come to the fore, IMO, over the last 5 to 10 years has been momentum. Even those sports which incorporate breaks in play as a part of the game are demonstrating the importance of momentum; it has become the Holy Grail for teams and coaches.


Individual sports – such as tennis – have always rated it highly but there is now a concerted effort at creating momentum in team sports. This is the focus of holding possession in football even if it’s just in your half like Rafa did with us for a few years.

What this has done is create the need for players who can change the momentum for their team; players who don’t need the rest of their team in order to shift the momentum. It’s no co-incidence IMO that Michael Vick has been a sensation for the Eagles this year. The reason they beat the Giants a couple of weeks ago was that he was able to stand against all the momentum and change it on his own. The same is true for Basketball, League, Union, Cricket and almost any other professional team sport you can name.


The Wolves game was a disgrace not least because momentum was against us and we didn’t have the ability to change it. Looking through the team I really only saw one player who has the ability to shift momentum and that’s our captain. Carra can resist momentum but not really change it, Raul would be the same. Fernando has the ability to change momentum but I don’t think he’s got the mental strength to do it.


Which players out there have demonstrated, to you, the capacity to change the momentum of a match which is going the wrong way? What is it about them that enables them to do it? What is the most important quality we need to identify in prospective players?
 
I'm slightly confused, Wiz. Are you talking about leadership - ie inspiring others to change the flow of the game - or simply the ability to create something out of nothing on your own?

Gerrard possesses both those qualities. Torres possesses the latter, although he's so unmotivated/out of form atm that he's effectively a passenger.

It's no coincidence that the only two players in our club to be able to do what you're (I think) talking about are world-class icons who would cost £25m+ on the open market.

So the question becomes: do LFC have the resources to sign those kind of players, given that they're likely to be coveted by Real, Barca, City, Chelsea etc? The answer, I suspect, is no.

IMO we need to work to a different model altogether. Because in tandem with the trends you're talking about, we have also seen the increasing importance of TEAMWORK over individual skill. Look at the World Cup for proof: most of the tournament's 'stars' flopped badly; Germany thrashed Argentina; Holland beat Brazil. Look at Bolton and Blackpool. The only way we can compete with the likes of City is not by trying to buy up the world's greatest individual stars but by instilling a stystem of play and an esprit de corps which makes us more the an the sum of our parts. Like Liverpool in the old days...
 
We have signed so many captains Ive lost count. Captains (or former ones) should have that ability, worldclass or not.
 
If we're talking about the ability to have a foothold on the game, and change the tempo, then Gerrard used to do that, in many ways Alonso could control things via keeping play ticking over. As opposed to what we see with Lucas, where he keeps hold of the ball too long and isn't adventurous enough, Alonso would keep the momentum going with the long and short pass into attacking areas.

Meireles has shown similar ability, but I think our biggest problem as a side is maintaining possession. I think if we grasp that again and play things simple then the ability to control the momentum of a game will follow. For too long we've played a high energy pressing game, especially under Rafa, where our ploy was too often to allow the opposition time on the ball, while obstructing their play. To more or less work them into tired submission, hitting them on the break or with a sucker punch when opportunity arose. Of course that's not completely how it was, there were occasions (too few though) where we played some scintillating football, but as a side we need to get back to the basics of having good 'readers' of the game within the ranks, instead of those content to be an obstacle for the opposing team.
 
I don't think it's too complicated.

We need to find a Sami Hyypia clone.
We need to find a very good DM.
We need a winger, possibly two, who can provide width, creativity and goals.
We need a LB who isn't completely shit.
And we need two new strikers
 
squiggs pretty much sums up the personnel but first and foremost we need good tactics.

a) play to the teams strengths.

when gh was in charge he had sami, handchoz, carra and babbel with didi protecting them, our strengths was our defense so gh set up the team to soak up pressure (and they were more than capable of handling that pressure) and hit them (the opposition) over the top with argubly one of the most lethel strikers ever for liverpool. he played to our strengths.

currently our defense is shambolic and even the ever reliable carra is in decline, inviting pressure and then playing the ball over the top to strikers inapable of holding up the ball makes NO SENSE our strength no longer lies in our defense.

a simple shift in tactics that sees us keep the ball on the ground, giving support to one of the most lethel strikers in world football (who has become jaded with chasing down aimless punts) will see several players improve and that is without splashing out loads of money on new players.

b) aim to be proactive rather than reactive

push up the pitch
put pressure on the ball
hunt for ball in packs when you lose it
commit more bodies to attack when we have the ball
get as close to the out and out striker as possible

every single thing I've listed are things we can do with the CURRENT personnel

c) play the best people available

aurelio is fit again so why the FUCK is cuntchesky starting games?
he will attack better,
he will improve set pieces (especially corners from the left)
he is an excellent passer

we will have someone comfortable on the ball, we'll become more of a threat at set peices and we'll retain possession better because he is less likely to give the ball away.

d) square pegs, round holes

roy took this to new heights midweek
kuyt on the left
miereles on the right

I get that he was desparate to get gerrard in the team but unbalacing the team to get him in is UNACCEPTABLE.

basically to cut a long story short, I just a manager to come in and just for ONCE do the fucking obvious, make the obvious choices with personnel, tactics and subs.
if a manager does that and we're STILL all over the place I will hold my hands up and say I was completely wrong and all our problems are the result of a poor squad.
that's why I think a competent manager is more important than new players, I always thought that and will always think that.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=43351.msg1240319#msg1240319 date=1293800066]
I don't think it's too complicated.

We need to find a Sami Hyypia clone.
We need to find a very good DM.
We need a winger, possibly two, who can provide width, creativity and goals.
We need a LB who isn't completely shit.
And we need two new strikers
[/quote]

Right. So we're only seven players short of a good starting XI is what you're saying.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=43351.msg1240335#msg1240335 date=1293801781]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=43351.msg1240319#msg1240319 date=1293800066]
I don't think it's too complicated.

We need to find a Sami Hyypia clone.
We need to find a very good DM.
We need a winger, possibly two, who can provide width, creativity and goals.
We need a LB who isn't completely shit.
And we need two new strikers
[/quote]

Right. So we're only seven players short of a good starting XI is what you're saying.

[/quote]

Yep. I think the squad is pretty poor - although not as poor as it's showing - and it needs all of those positions filling before we can think about competing for the league again.

We're miles off, and it's going to take an impressive two years to rectify a dramatic period of decline.
 
To start with, we need to play players in positions they're suited to. That would help a little.
 
----------------------Reina-----------------
--Johnson---Agger------Greek------Aurelio------
----------------Lucas------Meireles---------------
----Kuyt/Maxi-------Gerrard-----------Maxi/Cole--
-----------------------Torres-------------------------

Agreed. We should play this for the next few weeks. It's the best we've got. I'm no tactical expert, but a 4-4-2 to me requires at least someone who is quick out wide to get in behind and put crosses in. We don't have anyone. So what's the point?

Roy playing Kuyt and Meireles on the wings was basically him handing in his notice.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43351.msg1240334#msg1240334 date=1293801740]
squiggs pretty much sums up the personnel but first and foremost we need good tactics.

a) play to the teams strengths.

when gh was in charge he had sami, handchoz, carra and babbel with didi protecting them, our strengths was our defense so gh set up the team to soak up pressure (and they were more than capable of handling that pressure) and hit them (the opposition) over the top with argubly one of the most lethel strikers ever for liverpool. he played to our strengths.

currently our defense is shambolic and even the ever reliable carra is in decline, inviting pressure and then playing the ball over the top to strikers inapable of holding up the ball makes NO SENSE our strength no longer lies in our defense.

a simple shift in tactics that sees us keep the ball on the ground, giving support to one of the most lethel strikers in world football (who has become jaded with chasing down aimless punts) will see several players improve and that is without splashing out loads of money on new players.

b) aim to be proactive rather than reactive

push up the pitch
put pressure on the ball
hunt for ball in packs when you lose it
commit more bodies to attack when we have the ball
get as close to the out and out striker as possible

every single thing I've listed are things we can do with the CURRENT personnel

c) play the best people available

aurelio is fit again so why the FUCK is cuntchesky starting games?
he will attack better,
he will improve set pieces (especially corners from the left)
he is an excellent passer

we will have someone comfortable on the ball, we'll become more of a threat at set peices and we'll retain possession better because he is less likely to give the ball away.

d) square pegs, round holes

roy took this to new heights midweek
kuyt on the left
miereles on the right

I get that he was desparate to get gerrard in the team but unbalacing the team to get him in is UNACCEPTABLE.

basically to cut a long story short, I just a manager to come in and just for ONCE do the fucking obvious, make the obvious choices with personnel, tactics and subs.
if a manager does that and we're STILL all over the place I will hold my hands up and say I was completely wrong and all our problems are the result of a poor squad.
that's why I think a competent manager is more important than new players, I always thought that and will always think that.

[/quote]

Excellent post. We do need new players for a serious title challenge, but even then we won't get anywhere without a manager capable of leading the way.
 
I don't know about many, but to me we need to find someone who can provide us some midfield dominance quite urgently. We are struggling to impose ourselves. We expect Gerrard to cover a lot of ground defensively, and also dictate the play and take it to the oppo....at 30, i don't think that is fair.

With all due credit to Lucas for improving significantly, we still need someone who is a lot better than him. Someone with a terrific engine like Mascher and a good understanding of pass and move game.

We also need some combination of power, pace and technical ability down the wings. Right now, we have none of that on both wings. Maxi provides a little bit of technical ability but we need a lot more.

A significant jump up in quality in the left back position will be quite useful too.
 
If we are looking at it purely from the point of view that we have to work with the players that we have now and not start banging on about signing 5 or 6 new players then there are some simple things that need to be changed that should help us start turning things around, to my mind that means

playing our best players in their best positions - Roys isnt the first manager to try shoehorning players into the team in unfamiliar positions and we have seen plenty of it in the last few years with Rafa and Ged but this current side doesnt have a strong enough spine to carry players in the same way. When dealing with players like Kuyt or Meireles its simply a matter of play them where they need to play or not at all, a player like Kuyt is poor enough of the right wing but on the left hes a disaster. If you dont want to play him as a wide attacking player then dont play him at all, same goes for Cole Meireles and a few others

not respecting reputations - Gerrard is our best player, nobody is disputing that but for some reason when he was took his place back in the side he was immediately the set piece taker despite the fact the Meireles has demonstrated much better ability in this area than Gerrard. The same could be applied to Carra when he returns from injury, his performances this season have ranged from good to catastrophic, his reputation shouldnt see him walk straight back into the team his place should be earned respective of the other candidates for his position. The same is true of Shelvey v Poulsen and Kelly V Johnson, we should play the form player in these positions not the more respected one

change our approach - Every coach has a certain system that they play and they adapt their teams to it, but the problem is that some squads just dont have the players to play a certain way, Rafa built this squad to play a certain of football and largely they did that, Hodgsons ideas are compatible with the players we have and it doesnt matter how long we give him he cannot turn Torres into the type of striker he likes so inevitably Fernando will become more and more marginalise and less effective. The same is true of Johnson Meireles and Cole. If we continue in this vein then the players we have are no good to us

It looks increasingly likely that Hodgson wont be around much longer ut I guess its important that the new guy recognises there are some things that can be put right very quickly and very simply, until we do that we wont see any real improvements
 
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