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What are the owners made of?

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Farkmaster

Part of the Furniture
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I figured I'd do a post mortem on this season a bit prematurely. I was concerned about Kenny getting the job in the first place, but I couldn't have been more wrong. Hodgson was so wrong for the club, and it was a question of culture as much as his inept floundering. When Kenny came in he seemed to signal the end of what were some pretty awful times for the club.

He also was successful enough that people thought there would not be lingering effects from those times. But there were. Kenny did a better job with a given set of players than when he got the chance to start building his own team. What's even more bizarre to me, is that unlike Hodgson, he does seem to have a positive, effective style of play that he's trying to use. I can see a project there. I can even believe in it, perhaps with my heart rather than the evidence, but there's something there. He is encouraging us to play an attractive style of attacking football. He just bought all the wrong players to do it. Because there is almost no variation to our approach, it's even weirder. The reason there is such a split on the forums about our trajectory, is because of the cognitive dissonance that you get looking at us play. It's immensely frustrating. It's like we are some primitive that bought a gun only to proceed to bludgeon people with it.

So what of the weird purchases? I thought it was a good idea from the owners to look to overhaul the system a bit especially regarding purchases, which have so undermined our ability to compete. Even setting aside the bejowled one's tendency to horde all credit for his teams success, I was alarmed that these inexperienced new owners had made a somewhat impetuous decision to take in the smooth talking Comolli, but I was looking forward to see what would happen. While they didn't know football, they certainly do know sports, and I thought perhaps we'd see, if not money ball, which is impossible at this point, then a bit of common sense.

But instead, our decisions were as bizarre as ever, if not more so. And they were bizarre in the exact opposite way you'd expect, given the history of the players, and Comolli. Unlike most incoming managers Dalglish being out of the game, and not in a previous job, would not have his favourites and hidden gems. Perhaps there was some sense in going with what we knew, but I thought what we knew included a healthy amount of skepticism about the value of British players, and also a very accurate understanding of what the potential of mainstays like Downing are. And, since it's de rigueur to make lazy associations with moneyball, I do find it wierd that if we want to buy goals on some level, we are buying and fielding so many players who don't score them across our midfield. I didn't like seeing Comolli look so comfortable with the owners, even after winning the carling cup. He should be made to sweat at the very least. What the fuck is the point of him?

Now that Kenny has had a disastrous follow up, he'll still get another season if he wants it, I'd imagine. Of course if he wasn't Kenny, he wouldn't get that opportunity, he'd be getting excoriated. But he is Kenny, and I think that should matter, to some extent, if I'm to care about this whole Liverpool thing more than I care about the fact that I like Tilley as a hat manufacturer, with their canadian persnicketyness, or that I fucking hate Toshiba for the fact that my laptop has been in service for 4 fucking weeks, and I've had to take them to small claims court to get a mother fucking replacement sent out.

Encouraging Kenny to go would be a very hard decision for the owners to make, and isn't likely at all, especially if they don't have some significant amount of funds necessary to entice a quality manager to our project while also sorting out that whole stadium thing they are oh so patiently studying. Perhaps a harder decision is for them to figure out why exactly the changes they made to fix a blatant problem they identified were so ineffective, and how they can stop throwing good money at a bad process.

So far the owners haven't really done much of anything. Their best success so far has been the take over itself. They've just been a damn sight better than total oblivion. But it won't be long before their calming sense of patience, rightly or wrongly, will look like impotence, and the brain dead reporters who saw the movie moneyball will start doing brilliant clever things like writing articles that say "moneyball?" and then, I don't know, listing how much our transfers cost next to how many goals they've scored.

I'm eager to see what the owners do. It can't be nothing this summer. Spades in the ground and a meaningful rethink on our whole spray and pray acquisitions would do nicely. Kenny will get the latitude his legacy deserves, but now that we've got a director of football, we've got the opportunity to dictate purchasing, and that has to be done effectively. Or else the reality is we're just going to drift further and further away from relevance. It's an unforgiving game, far more unforgiving than baseball.
 
I don't see how one word of critisism can be levelled at the owners.
they removed over 300m in debt.
they back the new manager to the tune of 100m.
they have returned us to our roots of keeping a low profile.
they haven't sacked kenny when the vast majority of big clubs would have done so ages ago.

I have no problem with them taking their time over the stadium issue as it is something that is going to dictate our destiny for the next hundred years. for me the blame is squarely on the management and them alone.
 
Where did I say I put the blame on them alone? I'm just trying to move the discussion from the same old same old, which has clearly been going nowhere.

They just haven't had to make any massive decisions yet, and now they do. If they agree with your premise, that the management has totally failed, then they have to do something about it, yes? I will find it interesting to see what they do.
 
Where did I say I put the blame on them alone? I'm just trying to move the discussion from the same old same old, which has clearly been going nowhere.

They just haven't had to make any massive decisions yet, and now they do. If they agree with your premise, that the management has totally failed, then they have to do something about it, yes? I will find it interesting to see what they do.

I agree that the owners have big decisions to make in the summer. would you, for instance, trust kenny and comolli with another 100m?
do they have faith in what kenny is trying to build when a lot of the time we look like we don't know what the fuck we're doing?
I feel kenny needs more time but I would totally understand if the owners got rid.
 
if the owners had a manager in mind before kenny was appointed (after all kenny was only meant to be a caretaker) will they turn to their original choice in the summer?
 
At least one head should roll after last Summer.

Dalglish or Comolli. I don't see how it can't. If I had a business and someone had wasted that level of money, they would be out the door in a nanosecond.
 
Fair point. I never wanted Comolli to begin with, so I'd be very relaxed about seeing him leave. It's no secret that I back Kenny, but I'd certainly put him on the spot about not getting CL football next season and demand it for the season after.
 
At least one head should roll after last Summer.

Dalglish or Comolli. I don't see how it can't. If I had a business and someone had wasted that level of money they would be out the door in a nanosecond.

now THAT I agree with.

carroll. is he essential for the football we will eventually play?
if yes, why isn't he played?
if no, why was he bought (for 35m)?

squiggs if right, heads should roll for a shocking waste of money.
 
hHpIG.jpg
 
I think owners are so far away away from the day to day running of the club that they have not seen/felt the ups and downs the fans have felt this season. I would say they concerned more with the long term revenues, sponsorship, new markets, new stores in Asia etc.

We have seen increased revenues at same time as the clubs performance hasn't improved.

Example being Suarez affair, offered no leadership until things got way out of control (re: handshake).

So I expect the owners to have seen this season as progress and give KD another season with more money.

Flip the question, what do fans think of owners? They have backed the manager on his signings but we are no nearer on a new stadium than under G+H.
 
I think owners are so far away away from the day to day running of the club that they have not seen/felt the ups and downs the fans have felt this season. I would say they concerned more with the long term revenues, sponsorship, new markets, new stores in Asia etc.

We have seen increased revenues at same time as the clubs performance hasn't improved.

Example being Suarez affair, offered no leadership until things got way out of control (re: handshake).

So I expect the owners to have seen this season as progress and give KD another season with more money.

Flip the question, what do fans think of owners? They have backed the manager on his signings but we are no nearer on a new stadium than under G+H.

I think that's unfair, in the current climate. G&H fucked us over with the stadium and pissed about at a time when the country and ourselves were probably in a better position to invest in a new ground.

The owners have backed us reasonably well and not been intrusive, they've taken a back seat while we've blown what we've had in their first full transfer window. What's there to complain about really? Decisions shouldn't be made right now anyway, what's the point?
 
I think owners are so far away away from the day to day running of the club that they have not seen/felt the ups and downs the fans have felt this season. I would say they concerned more with the long term revenues, sponsorship, new markets, new stores in Asia etc.

We have seen increased revenues at same time as the clubs performance hasn't improved.

Example being Suarez affair, offered no leadership until things got way out of control (re: handshake).

So I expect the owners to have seen this season as progress and give KD another season with more money.

Flip the question, what do fans think of owners? They have backed the manager on his signings but we are no nearer on a new stadium than under G+H.

I doubt the owners are as far removed from all of this as you think. They installed one of their own, Tom Werner, as chairman to make sure that kind of disconnect doesn't happen, and John Henry himself (plus Linda fortunately) gets over to this side of the pond a fair bit. Bearing that in mind, my reading of the whole Suarez saga is that they shared the general view at the club that Suarez was unjustly treated and that we had to stand against that, but ultimately cut their losses when they decided that we had little prospect of being able to overturn the findings of the FA's kangaroo court or derail the media bandwagon which had built up around it.

I also doubt they see the question of revenue as separate from the question of our success on the field. You won't ultimately get either one without the other and I'm sure they're aware of that, not least from the experience they already have in sports management. Based on that, I'm optimistic they'll act on the stadium, even if only from pure self-interest.
 
You've never liked me anyways.

I think I know what Vlad's on about now. You all just want an online fight. I'm the one trying to protect you all from reptiles. I know this might seem like it's going to cause another Liverpool are racists issue but I seriously don't want those dirty lizard bastards running our club anymore.
 
I'm not. I was at Anfield picking tickets up before and there were several pallets of live mice being delivered to the board room.
 
I think that's unfair, in the current climate. G&H fucked us over with the stadium and pissed about at a time when the country and ourselves were probably in a better position to invest in a new ground.

That kinda is my point, as the owners are not (it seems so anyway) to invest their own money into funding a stadium.

The owners have backed us reasonably well and not been intrusive, they've taken a back seat while we've blown what we've had in their first full transfer window. What's there to complain about really? Decisions shouldn't be made right now anyway, what's the point?

Agree with this
 
I doubt the owners are as far removed from all of this as you think. They installed one of their own, Tom Werner, as chairman to make sure that kind of disconnect doesn't happen, and John Henry himself (plus Linda fortunately) gets over to this side of the pond a fair bit. Bearing that in mind, my reading of the whole Suarez saga is that they shared the general view at the club that Suarez was unjustly treated and that we had to stand against that, but ultimately cut their losses when they decided that we had little prospect of being able to overturn the findings of the FA's kangaroo court or derail the media bandwagon which had built up around it.

We didnt hear a pip from FSG until the hand shake incident.

I also doubt they see the question of revenue as separate from the question of our success on the field. You won't ultimately get either one without the other and I'm sure they're aware of that, not least from the experience they already have in sports management. Based on that, I'm optimistic they'll act on the stadium, even if only from pure self-interest.

You say this but we have been poor for a few seasons and we have still increased our revenues.

The new shirt deal is case in point
 
you can argue we've recouped a shit load of money from sales, removed a shit load of wages by paying off/selling deadwood but the bottom line if the yanks gave kenny and comolli 100m to do with as they saw fit and they didn't even have the pressure of needing to sell first and with that money they have bought players that have at BEST kept us at the exact same level we were before we spent the money.
 
You say this but we have been poor for a few seasons and we have still increased our revenues.

The new shirt deal is case in point

In my post I give what I suspect is the reason why the owners didn't say anything before the handshake incident, namely that they thought the club was right to take the stance it did. These people are not fools, nor are they a charity. I simply don't believe they'd just have let things ride if they didn't think the club was doing the right thing.

And yes, we have increased our revenues, but not enough. The Mancs rake in loads more than we do every match-day at the Theatre of Prawns. To get back on a par with them we're going to have to equal that amount and regularity of income, and FSG know that full well.
 
The owners have been astute stewards so far culturally. It really does feel like it's a good fit, but I'll say it now as I said it before: They bought this club for an absolute bargain. A total fire sale. And based on that, I would expect more than £35M net spend. You will not rebuild a club for that price, after years of selling assets without replacing. Honestly, they bought us for a song, and they should be investing more.

Yes we bought some crap. But every manager does unfortunately. I honestly do not know if Kenny should be trusted with this kind of money again as of course it was spent badly in the main. But they have to invest in the club for players as the only way is downwards otherwise. We have to get the stadium going - no more dilly dallying. It's been 18 months already. We need some forward momentum/.

One of the great things about last season was obviously the winning, but also the youth arriving on the scene. Why aren't we letting these lads come through and play as often as they did - Flanagan, Robinson etc. They are more than good enough.

We need some positive momentum. Some investment in some top of the line players, a settlement of the stadium question and some more opportunities for the youth would help us out. But most of all, they have to know, with two quality strikers, it would be a different season
 
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