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We are going to need Home Grown Players

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bluebell

bluebell

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With Milner coming close to retirement, Ox going to do the glue factory and CJ another sick note, we will need to get Homegrown reinforcement...
What do people thing are the options?
Ward-Prowse (might be too old now)
Jude (£120m asking price)
Jacob Ramsey
Billy Gilmour
Michael Olise

These are MF or would you look at other areas to reinforce with homegrown players?
 
I don't really look at the breakdowns for these but I would have thought Carvalho & Ramsay added to this quota this season?
 
Are you actually fucking joking me with those options?

Either way its a bullshit rule, think you need like 8 minimum in your 25 man squad. (Hendo Milner Trent Joe Ox Curtis Nat Kelleher)
 
Last edited:
Brizzle said:
I don't really look at the breakdowns for these but I would have thought Carvalho & Ramsay added to this quota this season?
Click to expand...
Still under 21, so you don't need to add them to the 25 registered players considered homegrown. Calvin Ramsay is Scottish, besides he could only be regstered as homegrown if he stays with the club until he is 21
 
bluebell said:
Still under 21, so you don't need to add them to the 25 registered players considered homegrown. Calvin Ramsay is Scottish, besides he could only be regstered as homegrown if he stays with the club until he is 21
Click to expand...

Does scotland not count as home grown? I thought Robbo counted.
 
Nationality doesn't come into it,

Next season Sepp will count as a fully homegrown player.
 
Nat Phillips will likely leave as well (though I bet he'll end up being 35 before leaving in search of regular football).

But Adrian, Firmino and Keita will likely depart too meaning we should have 5 non-homegrown spots open.

Carvalho and Elliot will ultimately qualify as HG and Ramsay if he ever materializes into existence will grab one of the non-homegrown slots (I think).

I don't think HG status is an issue for us because we have a really small squad and loads of spots open.
 
It's not a huge issue in terms of new signings as long as we consistently have a crop of academy prospects who can be part of the senior squad. If you have 3-4 such players (like we do presently with Elliott, Carvalho, Jones, Ramsey), your effective requirement of homegrown players is only 4-5.
 
Brizzle said:
Does scotland not count as home grown? I thought Robbo counted.
Click to expand...
Any player over the age of 21 who has been playing in England an Wales. Calvin Ramsay once he turns 21, then he has to be registered and could be counted as Homegrown until then he has no impact on squad numbers.
keniget said:
Nat Phillips will likely leave as well (though I bet he'll end up being 35 before leaving in search of regular football).

But Adrian, Firmino and Keita will likely depart too meaning we should have 5 non-homegrown spots open.

Carvalho and Elliot will ultimately qualify as HG and Ramsay if he ever materializes into existence will grab one of the non-homegrown slots (I think).

I don't think HG status is an issue for us because we have a really small squad and loads of spots open.
Click to expand...
We have the maximum number of non-HG players 17

This is from the Athletic - the tally seems odd, not sure how some clubs go into a season with that many under 21s
[xtable]
{thead}
{tr}
{th}
TEAM
{/th}

{th}
SQUAD SIZE
{/th}

{th}
NON-HOME GROWN
{/th}

{th}
HOME GROWN
{/th}

{th}
HOME GROWN %
{/th}
{/tr}
{/thead}
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}
Arsenal{/td}

{td}17{/td}

{td}12{/td}

{td}5{/td}

{td}29.4{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Aston Villa{/td}

{td}20{/td}

{td}11{/td}

{td}9{/td}

{td}45.0{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Bournemouth{/td}

{td}22{/td}

{td}4{/td}

{td}18{/td}

{td}81.8{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Brentford{/td}

{td}24{/td}

{td}15{/td}

{td}9{/td}

{td}37.5{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Brighton{/td}

{td}20{/td}

{td}11{/td}

{td}9{/td}

{td}45.0{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Chelsea{/td}

{td}25{/td}

{td}16{/td}

{td}9{/td}

{td}36.0{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Crystal Palace{/td}

{td}23{/td}

{td}11{/td}

{td}12{/td}

{td}52.2{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Everton{/td}

{td}25{/td}

{td}12{/td}

{td}13{/td}

{td}52.0{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Fulham{/td}

{td}25{/td}

{td}10{/td}

{td}15{/td}

{td}60.0{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Leeds United{/td}

{td}17{/td}

{td}8{/td}

{td}9{/td}

{td}52.9{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Leicester City{/td}

{td}25{/td}

{td}12{/td}

{td}13{/td}

{td}52.0{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Liverpool{/td}

{td}24{/td}

{td}17{/td}

{td}7{/td}

{td}29.2{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Manchester City{/td}

{td}19{/td}

{td}13{/td}

{td}6{/td}

{td}31.6{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Manchester United{/td}

{td}23{/td}

{td}12{/td}

{td}9{/td}

{td}39.1{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Newcastle United{/td}

{td}25{/td}

{td}10{/td}

{td}15{/td}

{td}60.0{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Nottingham Forest{/td}

{td}21{/td}

{td}9{/td}

{td}13{/td}

{td}61.9{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Southampton{/td}

{td}24{/td}

{td}10{/td}

{td}14{/td}

{td}58.3{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Tottenham Hotspur{/td}

{td}20{/td}

{td}12{/td}

{td}8{/td}

{td}40.0{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
West Ham{/td}

{td}23{/td}

{td}14{/td}

{td}9{/td}

{td}39.1{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
Wolves{/td}

{td}19{/td}

{td}15{/td}

{td}4{/td}

{td}21.1{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
 
dmishra said:
No Scotland doesn't. But Ramsay will count as homegrown if he spends ages 18-21 at an English club.
Click to expand...

I did read somewhere that Ramsay joined after he turned 19. So he wouldn't have spent the three years before he turns 21 requirement to qualify as homegrown once he turns 21. I might not be remembering correctly also.
 
Think we're forgetting 1 man in all of this.....


pics-image-14-820993558.jpg
 
bluebell said:
With Milner coming close to retirement, Ox going to do the glue factory and CJ another sick note, we will need to get Homegrown reinforcement...
What do people thing are the options?
Ward-Prowse (might be too old now)
Jude (£120m asking price)
Jacob Ramsey
Billy Gilmour
Michael Olise

These are MF or would you look at other areas to reinforce with homegrown players?
Click to expand...
Looking through Billy Gilmour's eyes ...
 
peekay said:
I did read somewhere that Ramsay joined after he turned 19. So he wouldn't have spent the three years before he turns 21 requirement to qualify as homegrown once he turns 21. I might not be remembering correctly also.
Click to expand...
I see. I'm not sure if the 3 years count from the date of the player's registration, or they date it back to January 1.
 
I misread the original post and thought Ward-Prowse had the 120m next to it.

A couple more windows of transfer fee inflation and he probably will be.
 
dmishra said:
I think the date of consideration is January 1 of the year in which the season begins. So for the 22-23 season, Ramsay will be considered 18.
Click to expand...

We had this discuss about Ramsey a while back with @Beamrider

There’s a potential problem with Ramsey because his birthday falls in the period between when a season ends and the new season starts (his birthday is in July).

I think it puts him in the unusual position of meaning, we can play him as an U21 for 3 seasons due to the January rule, but because he turns 21 before the start of the third season, he misses out on the homegrown classification.

It’s a confusing grey area, because there’s slightly different conditions on between what is an u21 player and what is a home grown player.
 
5 players are leaving for free this summer. Can you afford to put all your eggs in one basket with Jude?



[xtable=skin1]
{thead}
{tr}
{th}player{/th}
{th}Date of birth / Age{/th}
{th}Nat.{/th}
{th}End of contract{/th}
{th}Contract option{/th}
{th}Market value{/th}
{/tr}
{/thead}
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:2}{/td}
{td}Roberto Firmino{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Centre-Forward{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]{/td}

{td}Oct 2, 1991 (30){/td}
{td}
26.png
{/td}
{td}Jun 30, 2023{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}£28.80m{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:2}{/td}
{td}Naby Keïta {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Central Midfield{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]{/td}

{td}Feb 10, 1995 (27){/td}
{td}
59.png
{/td}
{td}Jun 30, 2023{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}£22.50m{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:2}{/td}
{td}Arthur Melo{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Central Midfield{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]{/td}

{td}Aug 12, 1996 (26){/td}
{td}
26.png
{/td}
{td}Jun 30, 2023{/td}
{td}Option to buy{/td}
{td}£16.20m{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:2}{/td}
{td}Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Central Midfield{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]{/td}

{td}Aug 15, 1993 (29){/td}
{td}
189.png
{/td}
{td}Jun 30, 2023{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}£14.40m{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:2}{/td}
{td}James Milner{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Central Midfield{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]{/td}

{td}Jan 4, 1986 (36){/td}
{td}
189.png
{/td}
{td}Jun 30, 2023{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}£1.80m{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:2}{/td}
{td}Adrián{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Goalkeeper{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]{/td}

{td}Jan 3, 1987 (35){/td}
{td}
157.png
{/td}
{td}Jun 30, 2023{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}£900Th.{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
 
StevieM said:
We had this discuss about Ramsey a while back with @Beamrider

There’s a potential problem with Ramsey because his birthday falls in the period between when a season ends and the new season starts (his birthday is in July).

I think it puts him in the unusual position of meaning, we can play him as an U21 for 3 seasons due to the January rule, but because he turns 21 before the start of the third season, he misses out on the homegrown classification.

It’s a confusing grey area, because there’s slightly different conditions on between what is an u21 player and what is a home grown player.
Click to expand...
The FA don't help themselves though.. in youth football the cut off is 31st August.

You'd have thought they'd have kept that throughout the pyramid.

But somewhere along the line it changes from 31st August to "Season Start"

Hence the grey areas.
 
The Nomad said:
The FA don't help themselves though.. in youth football the cut off is 31st August.

You'd have thought they'd have kept that throughout the pyramid.

But somewhere along the line it changes from 31st August to "Season Start"

Hence the grey areas.
Click to expand...

I guess youth football is to reflect school year start.
 
bluebell said:
5 players are leaving for free this summer. Can you afford to put all your eggs in one basket with Jude?



[xtable=skin1]
{thead}
{tr}
{th}player{/th}
{th}Date of birth / Age{/th}
{th}Nat.{/th}
{th}End of contract{/th}
{th}Contract option{/th}
{th}Market value{/th}
{/tr}
{/thead}
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:2}{/td}
{td}Roberto Firmino{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Centre-Forward{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]{/td}

{td}Oct 2, 1991 (30){/td}
{td}
26.png
{/td}
{td}Jun 30, 2023{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}£28.80m{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:2}{/td}
{td}Naby Keïta {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Central Midfield{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]{/td}

{td}Feb 10, 1995 (27){/td}
{td}
59.png
{/td}
{td}Jun 30, 2023{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}£22.50m{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:2}{/td}
{td}Arthur Melo{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Central Midfield{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]{/td}

{td}Aug 12, 1996 (26){/td}
{td}
26.png
{/td}
{td}Jun 30, 2023{/td}
{td}Option to buy{/td}
{td}£16.20m{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:2}{/td}
{td}Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Central Midfield{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]{/td}

{td}Aug 15, 1993 (29){/td}
{td}
189.png
{/td}
{td}Jun 30, 2023{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}£14.40m{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:2}{/td}
{td}James Milner{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Central Midfield{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]{/td}

{td}Jan 4, 1986 (36){/td}
{td}
189.png
{/td}
{td}Jun 30, 2023{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}£1.80m{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=rowspan:2}{/td}
{td}Adrián{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Goalkeeper{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]{/td}

{td}Jan 3, 1987 (35){/td}
{td}
157.png
{/td}
{td}Jun 30, 2023{/td}
{td}-{/td}
{td}£900Th.{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
Click to expand...

Other than Firmino, who else on that list actually provides value to the team on the pitch?

Milner provides experience, but this should be his last season and he should be on limited game time.

so to answer your post, yes, we should put all of our eggs in the Jude basket.
 
Zlate said:
Other than Firmino, who else on that list actually provides value to the team on the pitch?

Milner provides experience, but this should be his last season and he should be on limited game time.

so to answer your post, yes, we should put all of our eggs in the Jude basket.
Click to expand...

We suffer when Keita is unavailable purely from a numbers / options point of view and the fact that in some games he is good / useful.

I don't know what our plans are but I really hope it's all or nothing with Jude and that's it because we need more than one midfielder.
 
Keita's pressing in midfield is supreme, and we miss it hugely when he is injured, and especially when others are also injured
 
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