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Van Persie - "I dive"

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Rosco

Worse than Brendan
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Robin van Persie has fuelled the controversy surrounding Uefa's decision to overturn their two-match ban on the Arsenal striker Eduardo da Silva by admitting he himself exaggerates contact in order to convince referees that a foul has been committed in the penalty area.

European football's governing body was forced to perform an embarrassing U-turn having initially found Eduardo guilty of "deceiving the referee" after scrutinising TV footage of his tumble under a challenge from Artur Boruc during Arsenal's Champions League qualifying tie against Celtic. It prompted a two-game suspension yet, while Arsène Wenger subsequently suggested his player had "made more" of the contact than was wise, the club's appeal was upheld last week after Arsenal proved that Eduardo had indeed been touched.

Van Persie has now muddied the waters between perceived gamesmanship and cheating by conceding that, while he never consciously dives, he does overreact at times when contact is made in the penalty area. "Yes, I have done that," said the Holland international when asked if he had ever exaggerated upon being touched.

"Sometimes when you are in the middle of an 'action' and you get a little push, and you know there's nothing more to take. Basically, the guy pushed you and finished the whole action. Then you're in the right to show, in a way, to the referee that you've been pushed. Know what I mean?

"That's not really diving. It's just saying: 'Come on, he just pushed me, so I can't score now'. You sometimes make a little movement with your arms or with your body, yeah. But I don't think that's really cheating. I never have the intention to dive. Just to play honest football. I am against divers. It is just not honest, but it is difficult. But sometimes you are knocked off balance a bit and it looks a bit funny.


"For example at Manchester United, after the whole Eduardo thing, I had the ball on the right side and I cut it back. [Patrice] Evra gave me a little push – a really little one – but it sort of over-balanced me. I just fell down and the whole stadium started to boo me. I was like: 'Come on, can't you see he pushed me?' "

"Some people don't see these little pushes and they can give you a whole different picture to what the situation really is. On the other hand, I saw Zürich play Real Madrid the other week and the guy [Zürich's Alexandre Alphonse] dived when he got a penalty. An obvious dive. He just went to the keeper and dived. That was clear."

Van Persie will lead the line for Arsenal at Fulham this evening hoping to reverse the team's recent away form, which saw them beaten at United and Manchester City on successive trips despite impressing for long periods in each game.

The Dutchman has yet to receive an apology from Emmanuel Adebayor for the rake of Van Persie's face at Eastlands, which earned the Togolese a three-match ban. "I don't expect one, not any more," he said. "What can I say about that? He didn't apologise on the pitch, no.

"I don't really want to speak about this case any more. I made a statement after the game which were my feelings and still are. I don't want to waste any more time on Mr Adebayor, basically, because I think he has showed how he is in the last couple of weeks. So he had to do what he did. If you look at the Arsenal players, if you look at myself – if I look in the mirror, I don't think that I can blame myself on any action. He was punished for what he did and I think that's the main thing. What he did wasn't really right."

Arsenal have done plenty wrong on recent visits to Craven Cottage, losing two of their last three trips across the capital, and, having succumbed twice already in the league this term, they can ill afford a third reverse so early in the campaign. Van Persie has stressed the team cannot point to any inexperience within their ranks as a justification for inconsistent form. "I don't think we can hide behind that anymore," added the forward. "Yes, we have players in their early and mid-20s, and some younger, but a lot of them played 50 games for Arsenal last season and we have experienced players at the back.

"That's not the problem. It's just about how much we really want it. I look at my own performances and still think I should score more goals. I've been missing too many chances lately, so that's something I have to work on. We can all look at our own games and be honest with ourselves. That way we can all improve."
 
The whole diving issue is far from black and white and I am inclined to agree with a lot of what Van Persie said.

If a defender fouls an opposing player, even in the most minor of fashion, thereby diminishing the chance of a goal, is the attacher right in exagerating the consequences of the foul to bring the referee's attention to the original indescretion?
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=36062.msg950987#msg950987 date=1253954963]
The whole diving issue is far from black and white and I am inclined to agree with a lot of what Van Persie said.

If a defender fouls an opposing player, even in the most minor of fashion, thereby diminishing the chance of a goal, is the attacher right in exagerating the consequences of the foul to bring the referee's attention to the original indescretion?


[/quote]
Torres is way worse at it than RvP.

I have a lot of time for the alleged rapist. He's one of my fav players outside Liverpool.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36062.msg950976#msg950976 date=1253953253]
Robin van Persie has fuelled the controversy surrounding Uefa's decision to overturn their two-match ban on the Arsenal striker Eduardo da Silva by admitting he himself exaggerates contact in order to convince referees that a foul has been committed in the penalty area.

European football's governing body was forced to perform an embarrassing U-turn having initially found Eduardo guilty of "deceiving the referee" after scrutinising TV footage of his tumble under a challenge from Artur Boruc during Arsenal's Champions League qualifying tie against Celtic. It prompted a two-game suspension yet, while Arsène Wenger subsequently suggested his player had "made more" of the contact than was wise, the club's appeal was upheld last week after Arsenal proved that Eduardo had indeed been touched.

Van Persie has now muddied the waters between perceived gamesmanship and cheating by conceding that, while he never consciously dives, he does overreact at times when contact is made in the penalty area. "Yes, I have done that," said the Holland international when asked if he had ever exaggerated upon being touched.

"Sometimes when you are in the middle of an 'action' and you get a little push, and you know there's nothing more to take. Basically, the guy pushed you and finished the whole action. Then you're in the right to show, in a way, to the referee that you've been pushed. Know what I mean?

"That's not really diving. It's just saying: 'Come on, he just pushed me, so I can't score now'. You sometimes make a little movement with your arms or with your body, yeah. But I don't think that's really cheating. I never have the intention to dive. Just to play honest football. I am against divers. It is just not honest, but it is difficult. But sometimes you are knocked off balance a bit and it looks a bit funny.


"For example at Manchester United, after the whole Eduardo thing, I had the ball on the right side and I cut it back. [Patrice] Evra gave me a little push – a really little one – but it sort of over-balanced me. I just fell down and the whole stadium started to boo me. I was like: 'Come on, can't you see he pushed me?' "

"Some people don't see these little pushes and they can give you a whole different picture to what the situation really is. On the other hand, I saw Zürich play Real Madrid the other week and the guy [Zürich's Alexandre Alphonse] dived when he got a penalty. An obvious dive. He just went to the keeper and dived. That was clear."

Van Persie will lead the line for Arsenal at Fulham this evening hoping to reverse the team's recent away form, which saw them beaten at United and Manchester City on successive trips despite impressing for long periods in each game.

The Dutchman has yet to receive an apology from Emmanuel Adebayor for the rake of Van Persie's face at Eastlands, which earned the Togolese a three-match ban. "I don't expect one, not any more," he said. "What can I say about that? He didn't apologise on the pitch, no.

"I don't really want to speak about this case any more. I made a statement after the game which were my feelings and still are. I don't want to waste any more time on Mr Adebayor, basically, because I think he has showed how he is in the last couple of weeks. So he had to do what he did. If you look at the Arsenal players, if you look at myself – if I look in the mirror, I don't think that I can blame myself on any action. He was punished for what he did and I think that's the main thing. What he did wasn't really right."

Arsenal have done plenty wrong on recent visits to Craven Cottage, losing two of their last three trips across the capital, and, having succumbed twice already in the league this term, they can ill afford a third reverse so early in the campaign. Van Persie has stressed the team cannot point to any inexperience within their ranks as a justification for inconsistent form. "I don't think we can hide behind that anymore," added the forward. "Yes, we have players in their early and mid-20s, and some younger, but a lot of them played 50 games for Arsenal last season and we have experienced players at the back.

"That's not the problem. It's just about how much we really want it. I look at my own performances and still think I should score more goals. I've been missing too many chances lately, so that's something I have to work on. We can all look at our own games and be honest with ourselves. That way we can all improve."
[/quote]

I actually think that's fair enough. There isn't a player in the world who doesn't make the most of contact if it helps the team. It is when players feign contact at all...
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=36062.msg950990#msg950990 date=1253955397]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36062.msg950976#msg950976 date=1253953253]
Robin van Persie has fuelled the controversy surrounding Uefa's decision to overturn their two-match ban on the Arsenal striker Eduardo da Silva by admitting he himself exaggerates contact in order to convince referees that a foul has been committed in the penalty area.

European football's governing body was forced to perform an embarrassing U-turn having initially found Eduardo guilty of "deceiving the referee" after scrutinising TV footage of his tumble under a challenge from Artur Boruc during Arsenal's Champions League qualifying tie against Celtic. It prompted a two-game suspension yet, while Arsène Wenger subsequently suggested his player had "made more" of the contact than was wise, the club's appeal was upheld last week after Arsenal proved that Eduardo had indeed been touched.

Van Persie has now muddied the waters between perceived gamesmanship and cheating by conceding that, while he never consciously dives, he does overreact at times when contact is made in the penalty area. "Yes, I have done that," said the Holland international when asked if he had ever exaggerated upon being touched.

"Sometimes when you are in the middle of an 'action' and you get a little push, and you know there's nothing more to take. Basically, the guy pushed you and finished the whole action. Then you're in the right to show, in a way, to the referee that you've been pushed. Know what I mean?

"That's not really diving. It's just saying: 'Come on, he just pushed me, so I can't score now'. You sometimes make a little movement with your arms or with your body, yeah. But I don't think that's really cheating. I never have the intention to dive. Just to play honest football. I am against divers. It is just not honest, but it is difficult. But sometimes you are knocked off balance a bit and it looks a bit funny.


"For example at Manchester United, after the whole Eduardo thing, I had the ball on the right side and I cut it back. [Patrice] Evra gave me a little push – a really little one – but it sort of over-balanced me. I just fell down and the whole stadium started to boo me. I was like: 'Come on, can't you see he pushed me?' "

"Some people don't see these little pushes and they can give you a whole different picture to what the situation really is. On the other hand, I saw Zürich play Real Madrid the other week and the guy [Zürich's Alexandre Alphonse] dived when he got a penalty. An obvious dive. He just went to the keeper and dived. That was clear."

Van Persie will lead the line for Arsenal at Fulham this evening hoping to reverse the team's recent away form, which saw them beaten at United and Manchester City on successive trips despite impressing for long periods in each game.

The Dutchman has yet to receive an apology from Emmanuel Adebayor for the rake of Van Persie's face at Eastlands, which earned the Togolese a three-match ban. "I don't expect one, not any more," he said. "What can I say about that? He didn't apologise on the pitch, no.

"I don't really want to speak about this case any more. I made a statement after the game which were my feelings and still are. I don't want to waste any more time on Mr Adebayor, basically, because I think he has showed how he is in the last couple of weeks. So he had to do what he did. If you look at the Arsenal players, if you look at myself – if I look in the mirror, I don't think that I can blame myself on any action. He was punished for what he did and I think that's the main thing. What he did wasn't really right."

Arsenal have done plenty wrong on recent visits to Craven Cottage, losing two of their last three trips across the capital, and, having succumbed twice already in the league this term, they can ill afford a third reverse so early in the campaign. Van Persie has stressed the team cannot point to any inexperience within their ranks as a justification for inconsistent form. "I don't think we can hide behind that anymore," added the forward. "Yes, we have players in their early and mid-20s, and some younger, but a lot of them played 50 games for Arsenal last season and we have experienced players at the back.

"That's not the problem. It's just about how much we really want it. I look at my own performances and still think I should score more goals. I've been missing too many chances lately, so that's something I have to work on. We can all look at our own games and be honest with ourselves. That way we can all improve."
[/quote]

I actually think that's fair enough. There isn't a player in the world who doesn't make the most of contact if it helps the team. It is when players feign contact at all...
[/quote]
Like Eduardo.
 
It's a response to bad refereeing really isn't it ?

The general consensus amongst refs seems to be that it's not a foul if you're still on your feet, and that's why players will make the most of contact and go down.
 
I take pride in the fact that we've never had many drivers in our team.

Gerrard dives every now and again.

Torres and Riera drop very easily.

Luis Garcia used to dive.

But that's it isn't it?
 
It may well be a response to bad refereeing but a player should always stay on his feet when possible. Anything else amounts to a dive, IMO.

There's no middle ground.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36062.msg951010#msg951010 date=1253960273]
It may well be a response to bad refereeing but a player should always stay on his feet when possible. Anything else amounts to a dive, IMO.

There's no middle ground.
[/quote]

Agreed
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36062.msg951010#msg951010 date=1253960273]
It may well be a response to bad refereeing but a player should always stay on his feet when possible. Anything else amounts to a dive, IMO.

There's no middle ground.
[/quote]

So a defender can illegally stop an opponent from scoring, who has taken the moral high ground by staying on his feet and that is ok? Because chances are, because the attacker stayed on his feet there will be no foul awarded and a legitimate chance to score will be prevented by illegitimate means.

I hate the fact that players go down as if they have been shot at the slightest contact but until there is a fair and uniform application of the rules of the game, they retain a certain amount of my sympathies.
 
[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=36062.msg951043#msg951043 date=1253963846]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36062.msg951010#msg951010 date=1253960273]
It may well be a response to bad refereeing but a player should always stay on his feet when possible. Anything else amounts to a dive, IMO.

There's no middle ground.
[/quote]

Agreed
[/quote]

I'd say every footballer who has played to a reasonable standard would disagree.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=36062.msg951114#msg951114 date=1253970108]
[quote author=Rafiagra link=topic=36062.msg951043#msg951043 date=1253963846]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36062.msg951010#msg951010 date=1253960273]
It may well be a response to bad refereeing but a player should always stay on his feet when possible. Anything else amounts to a dive, IMO.

There's no middle ground.
[/quote]

Agreed
[/quote]

I'd say every footballer who has played to a reasonable standard would disagree.
[/quote]

Of course they would because the action, more often than not, is to their advantage. It doesn't make it morally acceptable.

A level of trust has to be established between the officials and the players; Ref's have a huge role to play by recognising a foul when a player remains on his feet, but in the mean time I don't think there's much between diving and simulation, and I think OTT reactions to a push or a tackle should be punishable. It's all very well saying 'it was a foul anyway' but the exaggeration could make the difference between a yellow or a red card for your opponent and that's not right. It's pretty clear to spot, too.

I'm not complaining when it goes our way, like Istanbul for instance, but it's not part of the game I'm willing to embrace.
 
As was the assist from Fabregas.

Spectacular pass to start a quality goal all round.
 
True.

The one he got against us last season at The Emirates is one of my favourtite goals. It gets better everytime I see it.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36062.msg951826#msg951826 date=1254048538]
True.

The one he got against us last season at The Emirates is one of my favourtite goals. It gets better everytime I see it.
[/quote]

The volley? It was something.....
 
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