The High Line, have teams figured it out?
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We've caught so many teams with it, 130 plus times I believe. It works when all the players are in sync, it doesn't work so much when we put a patchwork back four together. City partially figured out how to beat it but were still caught out a number of times. Personally, I don't see what the big issue is? It's just another stick to beat us with. It's flavour of the month like how a few years ago it was zonal marking. It works for us and until the time it doesn't, I say carry on regardless
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Yes, it works. Conceded the second lowest amount of goals in the league and scored the most.
We concede the second lowest chances per match behind City.
People seem to think some of these chances that get flagged for offside actually is a chance..
City have our number regarding the high line but so do we the other way. Will be interesting to see Klopps approach tomorrow.
Against Benfica you could see what happens when a back four havent played together or trained together. Its got nothing to do with how it really works for us.
We concede the second lowest chances per match behind City.
People seem to think some of these chances that get flagged for offside actually is a chance..
City have our number regarding the high line but so do we the other way. Will be interesting to see Klopps approach tomorrow.
Against Benfica you could see what happens when a back four havent played together or trained together. Its got nothing to do with how it really works for us.
We’ve had a high line for years and second in the league, European Cup semi final, FA cup semi final and the league cup in the bag. Yes, definitely worked out by others 😵
No plan B?
You don't need a plan B when plan A is so successful
They will get chances I reckon
This title is hilarious.
How did they unlock the puzzle that is our highline? The code to what the vulnerability was, after much pondering and wargames, was finally discovered. And now we are lost, as they'll tell the others. I never thought they'd do it!
Good forwards will have a chance against our system of play. As others have said it's why I'm worried about spurs as two players with one dropping slightly and especially one with pace behind Trent is the way against us.
So yeah, world class attackers can do damage against our defense. If our attackers score more, it's ok. Salah needs to find form. He hasn't been scoring for a long while now.
How did they unlock the puzzle that is our highline? The code to what the vulnerability was, after much pondering and wargames, was finally discovered. And now we are lost, as they'll tell the others. I never thought they'd do it!
Good forwards will have a chance against our system of play. As others have said it's why I'm worried about spurs as two players with one dropping slightly and especially one with pace behind Trent is the way against us.
So yeah, world class attackers can do damage against our defense. If our attackers score more, it's ok. Salah needs to find form. He hasn't been scoring for a long while now.
This question has come up every once in a while since we got humiliated at Villa and the high line fell apart. The truth is it's a high risk high reward strategy, and when it goes wrong it goes wrong in spectacular fashion.
As Virgil said after the game on Sunday its a system that depends on our midfield being able to consistently apply pressure on the opposition ball carrier, we didnt get close enough to City's midfield to do that and as a result the defence was walking a tightrope.
I wouldn't be adverse to dropping the line back 10m against City, simply because we seem to consistently have a real problem getting to grips with their midfield
As Virgil said after the game on Sunday its a system that depends on our midfield being able to consistently apply pressure on the opposition ball carrier, we didnt get close enough to City's midfield to do that and as a result the defence was walking a tightrope.
I wouldn't be adverse to dropping the line back 10m against City, simply because we seem to consistently have a real problem getting to grips with their midfield
Neither of city's goals came from them exploiting the high line in the way they planned.
Yes you could say their second was an attack on the high line, but I wouldn't categorize that in the same way as beating it when we are pushed up to the half way line and they play through it with a deep runner, which is what is generally meant when folks say our high line is risky.
So, taking that caveat on board, the only influence the risky high line had was in catching Sterling off for his disallowed goal.
Yes you could say their second was an attack on the high line, but I wouldn't categorize that in the same way as beating it when we are pushed up to the half way line and they play through it with a deep runner, which is what is generally meant when folks say our high line is risky.
So, taking that caveat on board, the only influence the risky high line had was in catching Sterling off for his disallowed goal.
The 2nd goal illustrated their tactic more clearly even if it wasn't against the standard high line, which is essentially a combination of our defenders having a highs starting position and playing an offside trap. City were clearly staggering their runs which means the first run engages the defence and forces them to step up and play offside while the second runner then breaks through into space against a defence that is moving in the opposite direction.
This is where the midfield comes in or should come in. Henderson, Fabinho and Tiago were often caught fast asleep and waving the second runner through. I remember Benitez employing this high line with Agger and Škrtel but with Mascheran and to a certain extent Zenden tracking the deep-lying runner.
No. In Arsenal under Graham days it was simply called playing the offside trap.
It is not about whether teams have figure it out. That was always going to happen.
It is about whether teams can exploit it
It is about whether teams can exploit it
Yeah that's it.
Every team knows we do this but most teams aren't good enough to do anything about it. If they find a way, we simply need to score more than them. It's worth the risk
I love it but at the same time absolutely hate it makes me nervous. It definitely relies on the recovery pace as well if it goes wrong. Against teams who have good passers and pacey forwards, I think its definitely dodgy sometimes ad I wish we would be more adaptable/flexible with regard to how we implement it in game. Like if we're playing a team that has figured it out don't double down on the tactic, maybe abandon it and try something else for a while. Regardless we have one of the best defences in the league so cant go too overboard about this topic.
I'm most concerned when it's a set piece and you have a well timed run to the back post, where everyone in the middle can be comfortably offside in the first phase, but not be involved.
The man at the back, who makes the run is onside, and can head it back across goal for a simple tap in, for all the previously offside players now lining up for a tap in.
We almost saw this happen last weekend against City. And it happened in that 7-2 Villa game against us.
The man at the back, who makes the run is onside, and can head it back across goal for a simple tap in, for all the previously offside players now lining up for a tap in.
We almost saw this happen last weekend against City. And it happened in that 7-2 Villa game against us.
Two points:
- The Achilles' heel of our high line is the midfield in front of them. Put a 2019-20 Fabinho-Henderson-Wijnaldum trio in front of them and not many teams will be able to find time and space, to receive the ball in an advanced area with time to look up and make the defense-splitting pass. The effectiveness of our current midfield heavily depends on the personnel and the form of individual players; for instance Fabinho was poor against City in the league and much better just a week later in the cup; Keita was more effective in the 1st half than Henderson the week before, but then sharply faded and spaces again started to appear – Klopp has been juggling the midfield all season to find a combination of 3 players who will offer enough protection and it only worked in patches. How much the likes of Thiago, Keita, Henderson and Fabinho have left in the tank at this point will determine the outcome of our season.
- Even with the best possible midfield in front of them, I would be wary of playing a super-high line against Spurs. They are the one team in the league perfectly calibrated to exploit space behind the CBs with the right personnel for it. They are rather shit in most other aspects of the game, but world-class in that one thing – if there is one game where Klopp should somewhat compromise and move the line back a few yards, that would be it.
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Agreed, for all the numbers we have in midfield, for the best part of the last 2 months, Klopp has narrowed down his choices to 4 players. Ox is rightly shunned. Milner can barely offer 10 mins anymore. But the complete lack of faith in Jones and Elliott is a bit strange. I would have thought at least one of them would have got more playing time this year. But Klopp has form for this - he doesn't trust certain players at the business end of the season, and I suspect he is unwilling to tolerate the growing pains of two youngsters at such a crucial part of the season.
The trouble with this strategy of course is that these 4 mids are just going to drop dead at some point, especially when they're not exactly the toughest to begin with.
Wish we are ruthless this summer in that midfield spot. If we need to get rid of Ox, Milner AND Keita and bring in TWO new midfielders, so be it. It's the one part of our squad where we haven't freshened things up at all.
I suspect Jones, and maybe even Elliott, will have a part to play in the next 2 games. They look tough on paper, but these are not great footballing sides to be perfectly honest – Klopp can afford to be a bit more adventurous and save some of the key players for the big battles ahead.
Tut tut - that's where 'phases' comes in. Is it the same phase of play?
No. They'd be on side as they are playing the ball backwards.
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