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Telegraph Article

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Spionkop69

Get the cretins out!
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http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rorysmith/100005025/wanted-new-liverpool-manager-must-have-gsoh/

“I do not know what will happen in four or five months. In football, things change†– Manuel Garcia Quilon

Let the music play and the dance start anew. Liverpool supporters know the steps. A big job on the continent becomes available. Rafael Benitez’s name is brought up. A fairly anodyne suggestion from his agent, Sr Quilon, that he cannot predict the future – after all, Benitez may be king come May, he may have ditched football for a role as a TV handyman – is picked at, pored over. Whispers of contracts, of unhappiness, of the lure of some exotic city, grow into a cacophony, countered only by acquaintances and friends insisting he is happy on Merseyside. Round and round and round we whirl. Only in August, when the merry-go-round ceases and the dizziness stops, will we know. A nervous nausea or the elation of adrenalin? It depends what happens. It depends what you want to happen.

First, then, some facts. Juventus is the job du jour for the beleaguered Liverpool manager. La vecchia signora wants rid of her boy-toy, Ciro Ferrara, after finding he simply could not give her what she needed. A more experienced fancy man is required, a man who knows what an Old Lady wants, and she is prepared to wait until the summer to get him. Maybe a few months of being single will do her good (yes, that’s quite enough of that). Benitez is the number one choice for the role, on a long-term basis, of Juve’s numerous powerbrokers. Roberto Bettega, Alessio Secco, Jean-Claude Blanc and Lapo Elkann, the power behind the throne, are in agreement. An offer will be made. They are confident they have the financial muscle to lure him to Turin.

That it is Juventus is almost by-the-by. There is a good chance that, once The Lying Rag returns to these shores, both of the jobs at the San Siro will be up for grabs, and possibly Real Madrid, too, depending on the whims of Florentino Perez. Benitez will be linked to all of them. With his position at Liverpool under unprecedented scrutiny and a growing number of fans convinced a change is needed, there is every chance the Spaniard’s love of Merseyside and his desire to see through the project which he began six years ago will be superceded. The rumours have swirled for years. This time, they could come true.

Enough has been said on whether that is the right thing to do for Liverpool. That issue boils down, basically, to whether you happen to believe Benitez has done enough in his time at Anfield to warrant a chance to rectify his mistakes of this campaign. The majority, probably, would suggest he has. A growing minority disagree. It’s a personal choice.

Rather, it is perhaps time to consider what may happen to Liverpool should Benitez go, what may happen in the long, arduous search for a man to replace him and what that could mean for a club desperate for success now.

Conventional wisdom suggests Liverpool would have their pick of the litter when it comes to a new manager. Fans, understandably, want a Mourinho, a Hiddink, a Lippi or a Capello. What, though, is the advertising pitch? “Famous old club seeks man to move in to bijou home for title tilt. All candidates must be able to win the Premier League on a pittance – but you can spend what you raise in sales! – and capable of adapting when, without warning, your bosses decide they need to pay down the debt they promised not to laden the club with at the expense of your transfer funds. Warning: goalposts may shift. Must have GSOH.â€

Is that likely to tempt one of management’s A-listers? No. Aim lower. How about Roy Hodgson or Martin O’Neill, the leading domestic contenders? Possibly, but Hodgson is 63, and O’Neill would think twice about swapping one good American owner, in Randy Lerner, for Messrs Hicks and Gillett. The club has pull, yes, but the owners possess plenty of push.

Abroad, then. Unai Emery? Valencia would love that, and he’d cost a pretty penny. Liverpool don’t have two of them to rub together. Lower. Laurent Blanc? You’d have to see off Inter, if Jose leaves. Lower. Jorge Jesus (the Benfica manager, fact fans)? Domingos Paciencia, of Braga? Jurgen Klinsmann? That sort of level. Is that definitely a step up on Benitez? Even those who have grown to loathe him would hardly be convinced.

Say an ambitious young manager does take the job on. What happens on the pitch? How do they stamp their authority on the side without any money to spend (and, quite possibly, no Champions League football)? Well, you would sell off the Benitez stalwarts and the squad ballast, if possible. Dirk Kuyt, Lucas, Sotirios Kyrgiakos, Philipp Degen, Damien Plessis, Albert Riera, Ryan Babel and Diego Cavalieri would bring in around £40 million or so of spending money (possibly – at Liverpool, the gap between the cushions and the sofa tends to be quite large). Javier Mascherano may choose to make his move to Barcelona. Another £30 million, though Benitez’s putative replacement would hope to persuade him to stay. Fernando Torres and Pepe Reina? Both are settled enough to allow a new man chance, and Juve, if that is to be who tempts Benitez away, can afford neither. Retaining Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher would be vital to ensure some sense of continuity.

Whoever the new manager was, they would retain the core of a very good team. Reina in goal, with Glen Johnson and Martin Kelly the right-backs, Carragher, Daniel Agger and/or Martin Skrtel in the centre, and the promising Emiliano Insua at left back, and maybe Fabio Aurelio. Mascherano, possibly, and Alberto Aquilani in the middle, Maxi Rodriguez on the right, Yossi Benayoun on the left, as well as the world’s best attacking midfielder and the world’s best striker. Youngsters like David Ngog, Daniel Pacheco, Nathan Eccleston, David Amoo, Daniel Ayala, Peter Gulacsi and Krisztian Nemeth provide a bit of depth. Plus around £40 million to spend. Maybe. Benitez may even bequeath his successor Marouane Chamakh and Milan Jovanovic, as Gerard Houllier left him Djibril Cisse. Thanks for that, Gerard.

Liverpool would not be finished. But then neither would the jigsaw of ending their 20-year wait for a title. Benitez’s replacement would need a centre back, a left-back, a central midfielder or two, another winger and a striker. At least. And Hicks and Gillett, through Christian Purslow, would need to provide the new man with a staff and a salary, and possibly compensation to his old employers. All for £40 million. It wouldn’t go very far. Liverpool would be stuck with £5 million players again, when what they need are £15 million ones.

The same cycle of trying to build a team to challenge football’s princes from the position of pauper would begin again. And round and round and round they’d go, because Liverpool’s woes do not begin or end in the Boot Room. Yes, Benitez has his faults. Yes, a new manager may solve some of the problems the club faces, but it is not a panacea for all of Liverpool’s ills. It is in the boardroom and on the balance sheet that there must be a change for the dance to stop.
 
This journalist doesn't know the Liverpool squad as well as he's trying to make out. Yossi Benayoun on the left?
 
[quote author=Wilko7 link=topic=38872.msg1052710#msg1052710 date=1265809154]
This journalist doesn't know the Liverpool squad as well as he's trying to make out. Yossi Benayoun on the left?
[/quote]

Am I being whooshed? That's where Benitez has played him on numerous occasions.
 
Is that likely to tempt one of management’s A-listers? No. Aim lower. How about Roy Hodgson or Martin O’Neill, the leading domestic contenders? Possibly, but Hodgson is 63, and O’Neill would think twice about swapping one good American owner, in Randy Lerner, for Messrs Hicks and Gillett. The club has pull, yes, but the owners possess plenty of push.

Abroad, then. Unai Emery? Valencia would love that, and he’d cost a pretty penny. Liverpool don’t have two of them to rub together. Lower. Laurent Blanc? You’d have to see off Inter, if Jose leaves. Lower. Jorge Jesus (the Benfica manager, fact fans)? Domingos Paciencia, of Braga? Jurgen Klinsmann? That sort of level. Is that definitely a step up on Benitez? Even those who have grown to loathe him would hardly be convinced.

This. This. This.
 
While i don't agree with all of that article, it does highlight a few of my main worries if Rafa is to leave us (sacked/walks).
 
His inclusion of Dirk Kuyt in the list of supposed deadwood is also incredibly misguided.

Plus the financial restraints only came in last summer. The implication here is that Benitez has survived on a pittance, which is patently wrong.
 
We're doomed.

frazerdm1112_228x374.jpg
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=38872.msg1052712#msg1052712 date=1265809403]
[quote author=Wilko7 link=topic=38872.msg1052710#msg1052710 date=1265809154]
This journalist doesn't know the Liverpool squad as well as he's trying to make out. Yossi Benayoun on the left?
[/quote]

Am I being whooshed? That's where Benitez has played him on numerous occasions.
[/quote]

He's describing the core of a very good team which should mean players in their strongest positions.
 
I think it is a vision of a post-Benitez future that is closer to the truth than the 'sack him, we'll bring in Hiddink/Maureen/whoever and win the league' school of thought.

I have lost patience with Rafa in many respects, but my finger still hovers over the ejector seat button precisely because of these sorts of concerns.
 
[quote author=Wilko7 link=topic=38872.msg1052710#msg1052710 date=1265809154]
This journalist doesn't know the Liverpool squad as well as he's trying to make out. Yossi Benayoun on the left?
[/quote]

maybe he knows the squad all too well.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=38872.msg1052728#msg1052728 date=1265811933]
I think it is a vision of a post-Benitez future that is closer to the truth than the 'sack him, we'll bring in Hiddink/Maureen/whoever and win the league' school of thought.

I have lost patience with Rafa in many respects, but my finger still hovers over the ejector seat button precisely because of these sorts of concerns.
[/quote]

yup.
 
Good article that. Most points are pretty much spot on. Life after Rafa with H & G as owners doesn't bear thinking about.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=38872.msg1052728#msg1052728 date=1265811933]
I think it is a vision of a post-Benitez future that is closer to the truth than the 'sack him, we'll bring in Hiddink/Maureen/whoever and win the league' school of thought.

I have lost patience with Rafa in many respects, but my finger still hovers over the ejector seat button precisely because of these sorts of concerns.
[/quote]

That may or may not be true, but if you subscribe to the idea that any decent manager who comes to Liverpool would need millions upon millions to transform the squad then you are essentially accepting that Benitez has built a squad that needs major change, so therefore by hanging onto him are we not possibly sticking with a manager who may only make matters worse, and therefore making the job even bigger for his eventual replacement?
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=38872.msg1052738#msg1052738 date=1265813115]
Good article that. Most points are pretty much spot on. Life after Rafa with H & G as owners doesn't bear thinking about.
[/quote]

Oh, it's not that bad. I've thought about it lots, actually.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=38872.msg1052744#msg1052744 date=1265813861]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=38872.msg1052738#msg1052738 date=1265813115]
Good article that. Most points are pretty much spot on. Life after Rafa with H & G as owners doesn't bear thinking about.
[/quote]

Oh, it's not that bad. I've thought about it lots, actually.
[/quote]

Cool. I'll leave you to your private fantasy.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38872.msg1052742#msg1052742 date=1265813670]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=38872.msg1052728#msg1052728 date=1265811933]
I think it is a vision of a post-Benitez future that is closer to the truth than the 'sack him, we'll bring in Hiddink/Maureen/whoever and win the league' school of thought.

I have lost patience with Rafa in many respects, but my finger still hovers over the ejector seat button precisely because of these sorts of concerns.
[/quote]

That may or may not be true, but if you subscribe to the idea that any decent manager who comes to Liverpool would need millions upon millions to transform the squad then you are essentially accepting that Benitez has built a squad that needs major change, so therefore by hanging onto him are we not possibly sticking with a manager who may only make matters worse, and therefore making the job even bigger for his eventual replacement?
[/quote]

That is something I am also weighing up- although I think the squad *is* terrifically talented, and has the nucleus of one of the best 11s in Europe. A third rate manager has the potential to fuck things up so that we move away from Europe's top table, somewhere we've been used to feasting under Benitez.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=38872.msg1052749#msg1052749 date=1265814471]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38872.msg1052742#msg1052742 date=1265813670]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=38872.msg1052728#msg1052728 date=1265811933]
I think it is a vision of a post-Benitez future that is closer to the truth than the 'sack him, we'll bring in Hiddink/Maureen/whoever and win the league' school of thought.

I have lost patience with Rafa in many respects, but my finger still hovers over the ejector seat button precisely because of these sorts of concerns.
[/quote]

That may or may not be true, but if you subscribe to the idea that any decent manager who comes to Liverpool would need millions upon millions to transform the squad then you are essentially accepting that Benitez has built a squad that needs major change, so therefore by hanging onto him are we not possibly sticking with a manager who may only make matters worse, and therefore making the job even bigger for his eventual replacement?
[/quote]

That is something I am also weighing up- although I think the squad *is* terrifically talented, and has the nucleus of one of the best 11s in Europe. A third rate manager has the potential to fuck things up so that we move away from Europe's top table, somewhere we've been used to feasting under Benitez.
[/quote]

True, there is always a massive degree of risk when changing your manager. I currently think its a risk worth considering.

Speaking for myself though when I say we should get a new manager it is with the caveat that we can get someone decent in to replace him. If it was a choice between keeping Benitez or getting Glenn Hoddle in then I would obviously go for the keeping Benitez option for example.

What does annoy me a bit though is the argument presented as fact that we would get some non-entity. Only the owners and management know who we can attract as manager.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=38872.msg1052744#msg1052744 date=1265813861]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=38872.msg1052738#msg1052738 date=1265813115]
Good article that. Most points are pretty much spot on. Life after Rafa with H & G as owners doesn't bear thinking about.
[/quote]

Oh, it's not that bad. I've thought about it lots, actually.
[/quote]

Ha ha.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=38872.msg1052749#msg1052749 date=1265814471]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38872.msg1052742#msg1052742 date=1265813670]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=38872.msg1052728#msg1052728 date=1265811933]
I think it is a vision of a post-Benitez future that is closer to the truth than the 'sack him, we'll bring in Hiddink/Maureen/whoever and win the league' school of thought.

I have lost patience with Rafa in many respects, but my finger still hovers over the ejector seat button precisely because of these sorts of concerns.
[/quote]

That may or may not be true, but if you subscribe to the idea that any decent manager who comes to Liverpool would need millions upon millions to transform the squad then you are essentially accepting that Benitez has built a squad that needs major change, so therefore by hanging onto him are we not possibly sticking with a manager who may only make matters worse, and therefore making the job even bigger for his eventual replacement?
[/quote]

That is something I am also weighing up- although I think the squad *is* terrifically talented, and has the nucleus of one of the best 11s in Europe. A third rate manager has the potential to fuck things up so that we move away from Europe's top table, somewhere we've been used to feasting under Benitez.
[/quote]

didn't we start with a good nucleus when rafa arrived
dudek
carra
sami
riise
finann
gerrard
hamman
baros
cisse
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=38872.msg1052767#msg1052767 date=1265815910]


didn't we start with a good nucleus when rafa arrived
dudek
carra
sami
riise
finann
gerrard
hamman
baros
cisse
[/quote]

Out of that lot I'd rank Sami, Carra, Gerrard & Didi up with the Rafa pick. Finan, Riise and Dudek Mk1 were good, but not outstanding and Baros and Cisse were wank.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38872.msg1052761#msg1052761 date=1265815538]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=38872.msg1052749#msg1052749 date=1265814471]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=38872.msg1052742#msg1052742 date=1265813670]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=38872.msg1052728#msg1052728 date=1265811933]
I think it is a vision of a post-Benitez future that is closer to the truth than the 'sack him, we'll bring in Hiddink/Maureen/whoever and win the league' school of thought.

I have lost patience with Rafa in many respects, but my finger still hovers over the ejector seat button precisely because of these sorts of concerns.
[/quote]

That may or may not be true, but if you subscribe to the idea that any decent manager who comes to Liverpool would need millions upon millions to transform the squad then you are essentially accepting that Benitez has built a squad that needs major change, so therefore by hanging onto him are we not possibly sticking with a manager who may only make matters worse, and therefore making the job even bigger for his eventual replacement?
[/quote]

That is something I am also weighing up- although I think the squad *is* terrifically talented, and has the nucleus of one of the best 11s in Europe. A third rate manager has the potential to fuck things up so that we move away from Europe's top table, somewhere we've been used to feasting under Benitez.
[/quote]

True, there is always a massive degree of risk when changing your manager. I currently think its a risk worth considering.

Speaking for myself though when I say we should get a new manager it is with the caveat that we can get someone decent in to replace him. If it was a choice between keeping Benitez or getting Glenn Hoddle in then I would obviously go for the keeping Benitez option for example.

What does annoy me a bit though is the argument presented as fact that we would get some non-entity. Only the owners and management know who we can attract as manager.
[/quote]

Yes- owners that seriously considered installing Klinnsman.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=38872.msg1052787#msg1052787 date=1265817570]

Yes- owners that seriously considered installing Klinnsman.
[/quote]

I don't know if they seriously considered it. There was a certain amount of unrest between Benitez and the owners at the time and considering they knew Klinsmann it seems reasonable they would speak to him.
 
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