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Swans meltdown

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rurikbird

rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
Unfortunately my hunch was correct - not because I’m smart or have supernatural powers, but because I’ve watched Liverpool for a long time. We were flat and mentally not ready for the kind of opposition this rejuvenated Swansea team offered; to their credit they defended better and with more committment than any of our opponents in recent weeks.

But most importantly - their players wanted it more. They were ready to scratch and claw for the points - kind of like we did on Sunday against City. Klopp is as good a motivator as there is in football and I’m sure the coaching team spent a lot of time and effort trying to get it into the players’ heads that Swansea will be a totally different challenge to Man City and a difficult one in its own way - but if you’re not sure why it was so hard for the players to absorb that message, scroll through the pre-match threads and all the predictions of an easy 3:0, 5:0, 6:1 win - players are only human and just like most of you they were caught up in the same celebratory self-satisfied mood post-City. The only positive is that this will bring them down to earth.

What’s the most effective anti-dote to having this lesson being taught and not learned over and over again? I think it’s in having a player or better several players with true leadership qualities, the unhealthy ambitious types like Messi, Ronaldo, Sergio Ramos, Oliver Kahn, Gerrard, Giggs, Xavi, Antonio Conte (as a player and as a manager) and yes - Alexis Sanchez is unfortunately among this type. Players who really cannot stand the feeling of losing and who make everybody’s life so miserable after a loss that next time complacency simply does not become an option. This is really more about psychology than quality. This will be the first big test for Van Dijk, who I believe might be one of these “miserable losers” - we lost on his league debut (and partly due to his mistake, although failure to score or to create good chances was probably the bigger sin), how will he handle this and how will the team respond? Moments like this can be defining.
 
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Midfield was terrible. No drive, movement off the ball or bravery on the ball just pass sideways or back.

Shithouses still lack winning mentality. Any team that sets out to win any competition knows it has to overcome that sort of opposition they were there for the taking but this shower blew another opportunity.

Will they ever learn? Klopp should tear some strips off them. Sad fact is that is probably our best 11 so there's no excuses we just aren't good enough.

This lot might scrape a 4th in the league or get to a semi or even a final but will then fall flat on their arses. Too many weak minds, it has to change.

While I'm still capable of a rational thought after fuming through that shocker, how much would we benefit from a bit of experience out there? No smarts when needed

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
We can only win against teams that wanna play football. We mostly draw and occasionally lose against set to defend for their lives. How is it we can beat the top one week and lose to the bottom the next week? It is very frustrating.
 
rurikbird said:
Unfortunately my hunch was correct - not because I’m smart or have supernatural powers, but because I’ve watched Liverpool for a long time. We were flat and mentally not ready for the kind of opposition this rejuvenated Swansea team offered; to their credit they defended better and with more committment than any of our opponents in recent weeks.

But most importantly - their players wanted it more. They were ready to scratch and claw for the points - kind of like we did on Sunday against City. Klopp is as good a motivator as there is in football and I’m sure the coaching team spent a lot of time and effort trying to get it into the players’ heads that Swansea will be a totally different challenge to Man City and a difficult one in its own way - but if you’re not sure why it was so hard for the players to absorb that message, scroll through the pre-match threads and all the predictions of an easy 3:0, 5:0, 6:1 win - players are only human and just like most of you they were caught up in the same celebratory self-satisfied mood post-City. The only positive is that this will bring them down to earth.

What’s the most effective anti-dote to having this lesson being taught and not learned over and over again? I think it’s in having a player or better several players with true leadership qualities, the unhealthy ambitious types like Messi, Ronaldo, Sergio Ramos, Oliver Kahn, Gerrard, Giggs, Xavi, Antonio Conte (as a player and as a manager) and yes - Alexis Sanchez is unfortunately among this type. Players who really cannot stand the feeling of losing and who make everybody’s life so miserable after a loss that next time complacency simply does not become an option. This is really more about psychology than quality. This will be the first big test for Van Dijk, who I believe might be one of these “miserable losers” - we lost on his league debut (and partly due to his mistake, although failure to score or to create good chances was probably the bigger sin), how will he handle this and how will the team respond? Moments like this can be defining.
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Yep, been saying it to people all week. This is the game that gives us a reality check. I had to be up early so missing the game was an excellent decision. Shit happens and we move on to the next game.
 
That game proves wijnaldum and can deserve binning. Neither possess the consistency to play midfield for us.

We needed a Keita who would pick up the ball and drive forward with it.
 
We should have encouraged January bids for Can, would have paid for Keita to come early. We'd have been better off this season and next.
 
I'd be annoyed but I expected us to lose 5 mins in. Always happens, this. Rather it now than v West Brom or Spurs.

Anyway, we had some good chances, and didn't score them. Our bench is fucking uninspiring and has been for most of the season. If we can't win with the first 11, we dont tend to win at all. Are there any stats to back that up? Where's @King Binny these days?
 
Dont think there is any need for a meltdown. Its just one of those games.
I said it before the game, shit monday night record, away at a ground where we usually struggle with a rejuvinated home team and we had just beaten City.
It was reeking of trouble.

When that Muffy Mawson goal went in I just knew it was going to end with a loss. Every little inch went their way. From where the second ball landed to his shot being hit first time into the corner. It was just one of those days.

Hopefully Klopp will have them firing again and WBA at home and Huddersfield at home is a great way to start a new unbeaten record.
 
Hansern said:
Dont think there is any need for a meltdown. Its just one of those games.
I said it before the game, shit monday night record, away at a ground where we usually struggle with a rejuvinated home team and we had just beaten City.
It was reeking of trouble.

When that Muffy Mawson goal went in I just knew it was going to end with a loss. Every little inch went their way. From where the second ball landed to his shot being hit first time into the corner. It was just one of those days.

Hopefully Klopp will have them firing again and WBA at home and Huddersfield at home is a great way to start a new unbeaten record.
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It probably would be, but we don't play both at home 😉
 
Shit deep opposition and shit Pitch combined With a low energy Level made this a poor game. I actually think the subs helped us but not enough for a good end result. We deserved better, but we just have to take it on the chin and prepare for NeXT weekend.
 
All the frustrations aside I think it's already showing how great an asset Virgil will be for us. When was the last time we had a defender of his size with the same ability and attitude as him? Even a few games in it's already glaringly obvious he's a different class to what we have been witnessing for the past many years in the central defender department.

Don't know if anyone else noticed but the way he was shouting towards the end (at the ref) also showed some gut and aggression, something we've also lacked dearly. As @rurikbird touched upon as well he's very clearly got some of that winners mentality surrounding him and he'll make his team mates better as well. Almost got a very decent assist too near the end showing of his class when on the ball too.

So the silly result and game aside I was sat with a feeling of quiet optimism still, simply because we have managed to get our hands on a potential world class central defender. In Keita comes also a potential world class midfielder and with the world class we've already got in the final third things are looking up.

Everything will almost be perfect when we start to sub on Kasper Dolberg instead of Ings whom I really don't think have a future with us.
 
Why would anyone head a clearance low towards the middle of the box ?

It was asking for trouble
 
Now I'm going to be depressed and miserable (more than usual) for the next few days. Went to bed miserable and woke up miserable. We could have been putting distance between ourselves and

As the Echo said ... abject performance .... which sums it up perfectly. Mane's awful passing, Can and Wijnaldum were just a waste of space and about as creative as my farts, Salah was awful, Firmino tried but nothing came off and overall we plodded through the game ... and those games only go one way. I don't think we got to the by-line and pulled it back once .. and often we see that is how these 10 man defences are beaten. We lost this in the first half where we looked like we were playing in slow motion.
 
As said in the match thread, we've looked incredibly flat in midfield while Coutinho has been injured. And now he has been sold that will only continue. It was similar against Burnley and Everton, both of whom we only just got over the line against. City was a different matter, but this is Liverpool and we always perform well in the big games (generally speaking).

All this, "oh it was just one of those days" stuff is excuse making really. Blame poor conditions, a deep lying team, blah blah, it's only the same as what City and everyone else face.

A midfield from Henderson, Can and Gini is asking for trouble on a consistent basis, because none of them are consistent enough. They have 3 goals and 5 assists between them in 77 combined appearances. Lallana and AOC can spearhead the three, but neither of them are consistent enough or pose the kind of threat we've lost with Coutinho.

Someone said in the match thread that it was one of those games that "ruins the Premiership", it's down to the better team to take the initiative and show they can roll their sleeves up and dig in. We did neither, we had possession and little in the way of full chances. We conceded the kind of soft goal that should have been drilled out of us on the training ground ages ago, and even with the addition of a £75m powerhouse centre half who repels almost everything in the air, there was still confusion and an unconvincing display whenever we faced a set play. That just confirms the concerns many of us have previously raised, that it's not just the quality of the player, it's the system, the training and the know how. We just don't know how. We were lucky to not concede to Aguero in the dying minutes last week, from more or less the same scenario. We got away with it through him failing to hit the target, rather than our own intervention, last night that weakness got exposed, again.

It was also said in the match thread that we performed like this with Gerrard and Coutinho. We did slip up in lesser games, granted, because we lack quality in certain areas (defense and midfield), but we also got dragged through a few tough, scrappy games like this, through their ability to pick out a freekick or another moment of individual brilliance and that brings us back to "that" midfield. It doesn't have that spark or that ability to pop up with brilliance nearly as regularly as those two aforementioned players could. Anyone glossing over that is kidding themselves and making excuses for a side that really shouldn't be continuing to fuck itself up in these sort of games. As it is, we are, and there are two main reasons for that. Poor organisation at the back and a loss of quality in attack. Both of which stop with the club and/or the manager.

Every time there is ample opportunity to capitalise on a moment of strength, we fuck it up. On and off the pitch. We finish second, we lose Suarez and buy absolute dross, we get ourselves in the top four and to the latter stages in Europe, we sell our best player. We beat the league leaders who are unbeaten, we capitulate against the side who are bottom of the league.

Same old shit. And it'll only continue because of our inexplicable lack of foresight when selling Coutinho.
 
Rosco said:
Why would anyone head a clearance low towards the middle of the box ?

It was asking for trouble
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Scrum of players all going for the same ball and all off balance due to pushing and shoving. Did anyone think he 'meant' to head it towards the middle of the box ?! Getting to it first is usually a positive, a bit unlucky in this instance in that it just fell nicely for Mawson.
 
Rosco said:
VVD wasn't off balance.

https://imgtc.com/w/nPfhLs6

I don't think he meant it, but he certainly misjudged it.
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Fuck me you're being harsh.

VVD wasn't positioned to get that ball, he was there to cover a longer ball towards the far post & the runner.

Then the four players that did attack the ball all failed to win it, so he jumps through/over all of them & the Swansea players to prevent the loose ball in the box.
 
I think if he did anything wrong it was in not just letting the ball go over him and out for a goal kick.

Incidentally @mark1975, I agree with the majority of your post but, unless I'm mistaken, I think the Aguero chance last week was flagged for offside.
 
FoxForceFive said:
Fuck me you're being harsh.

VVD wasn't positioned to get that ball, he was there to cover a longer ball towards the far post & the runner.

Then the four players that did attack the ball all failed to win it, so he jumps through/over all of them & the Swansea players to prevent the loose ball in the box.
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So he was out of position too
 
Rosco said:
So he was out of position too
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The flip side is what I mentioned in the match thread. All of our players are static from setpieces, if you watch the other corners they had (or freekicks), he is the only one attacking the ball. He's come in with that mindset, from that type of setup, playing in a system that allows him to attack the ball, whereas our system is stringently zonal, with players rooted in zones to attack anything that comes into their space. "Attack" being a rather generous description, in their case. I saw VVD clear more balls in that game than I've generally seen our centre halves do, so it's a case of which system you feel works best. I'd rather have a dominant player attack the ball and win it more often than not, than be in a situation where he's only able to win what the system allows him to win - anything within his zone.

There's only really two ways this will go, we'll adapt to accommodate his ability to dominate the box, or he'll be compromised in having to adapt to a system that limits his ability to dominate our box. If we can bring in a keeper who is equally dominant, then compromising to fit him would be an even greater alternative, and we might then see the likes of Matip become more assertive too. If they all end up stuck flat-footed in zones, when we've clearly got players who are easily outfought, then we're on a hiding for nothing and in for more of the same.

If anything, it highlighted how poorly setup and organised we are when defending setpieces, because it was like chalk and cheese, comparing watching him dominate everything, to the rest of our players stood rooted under every incoming ball.
 
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Rosco said:
So he was out of position too
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You're either being deliberately obtuse or you're very confused about defenders & how to defend.

Watch the video again. He's covering from the middle of the area to the far post.

When the ball drops into the centre four, (FOUR!) of our players try to deal with it & all fail.

He then leaves his position cos otherwise the ball would have been loose, potentially at the feet of one of their players facing only VVD & the keeper as everyone else is in that scrum in the centre.

In hindsight he'd obviously do things differently, but every other CB worth his salt would have made the same choice he did in that position, the intent is always to avoid a ball bouncing or dropping into the area uncontested.

He wasn't out of position cos until the ball is kicked no one knows where it will go.

He wasn't out of position when he contests the ball as the reason for him being in the original position is then nullified cos the ball dropped elsewhere.
 
Rosco said:
VVD wasn't off balance.

https://imgtc.com/w/nPfhLs6

I don't think he meant it, but he certainly misjudged it.
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I am not sure I'd lay blame at Virgil's feet (head) for that one, but he will of course make mistakes from time to time that's inevitable. He'll be less error-prone that what we've been used too in recent years I am sure and more importantly he'll add much more strength, calmness and leadership too. And overall skill.

All I am saying is, that this is another very good signing for us long term. He ticks more or less all the boxes when it comes to powerful yet classy central defenders, that's how I see it.
 
We'll bounce back from this, but there's a worrying lack of quality on the bench.

As good as our front 3 are, they're not going to fire every game, and we need to have alternatives.

Solanke, Ings and Lallana is a poor bench.

As much as we need to find a Coutinho replacement, we also badly need to think about another striker / attacker.
 
The Coutinho replacement will never be like for like. We need another quality player to play in the attacking postions. If one of the front 3 gets injured, we could be in big trouble.
 
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