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Sturridge

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Wait til it's contract time.

Even the heart of the club -Gerrard and Carragher wanted out unless we ponied up - both by their own admission in their book.

The sad part is not that money is amassive motivating factor, it's that people try to pretend it isn't and instead look for bullshit pie in the sky reasons instead
 
Some of these posts should be read with some melancholic music in the background.
Bleak, hopeless and gray, times infinite.

Like that black and white voiceless documentary about a rainy day in a small ghost town in Poland I once watched for about 18 seconds.
 
Wait til it's contract time.

Even the heart of the club -Gerrard and Carragher wanted out unless we ponied up - both by their own admission in their book.

The sad part is not that money is amassive motivating factor, it's that people try to pretend it isn't and instead look for bullshit pie in the sky reasons instead
I am not pretending it isn't am I?

I am just saying it's not the ONLY factor.
 
Wait til it's contract time.

Even the heart of the club -Gerrard and Carragher wanted out unless we ponied up - both by their own admission in their book.

The sad part is not that money is amassive motivating factor, it's that people try to pretend it isn't and instead look for bullshit pie in the sky reasons instead

Exactly. I love my job, I get paid very well and like the people I work with, however if I didn't get my bonus, yearly above inflation pay-rise I would be off like a shot. And if someone came to me and offered me more mula to move somewhere else you wouldn't see me for shit!

At the end of the day it's exactly the same for footballers.

The big clubs offer dosh AND a chance to win things. All we can offer at the moment is dosh.
 
And probably not as much as some of the other clubs.

I think that is true based on the recent efforts to trim the bloated wage bill. But prior to that, other than Chelsea and City, I think we could match pretty much most people, as evidenced by the massive wages we gave to average players.
 
I think that money, of course, is a big motivating factor in player's decisions as to where they go, but I doubt if it is the number one reason. Established players especially, are going to be well remunerated wherever they go, and for them I would say the prospect of winning ( major) trophies is the number one motivating factor.

Thats probably the main reason we cant compete for the top names
 
I just dont buy it is all. Didnt work for Nottingham Forest or Leeds or St Ettiene or Borusia Moechengladbach or Steau Bucharest or Hamberg or Any other club who had consistent success in an era. We have no right to be a success. The teams who succeed are the best run, and we have been a fucking shambles for a decade. An embarrassing shambles.

FFS, not that non-argument again. NOBODY is saying we have any such right. Everybody knows we have to earn it. Those of us who remember the glory days are probably more aware of that than anybody else, given the direct comparisons we're able to make. We're equally aware of the gulf between the way we were run in those days and the grotesque porridge which the running of the club has since become.

However, none of those other clubs you mention got anywhere even close to our consistency of success over such a long period, and that *has* had an effect in the minds of people out there. Kristian, as a foreigner, is in a better position to judge that than any of us Brits, and we hear the same thing from other non-Brits on here. I hear it also from relatives and friends dotted around the world. Many players will chase the money, but not every single one and not to the total exclusion of other factors. The fact that Luis Suarez signed for us in the first place, and still plays for us despite having had big money offers from Paris and quite possibly elsewhere, is proof positive of this, and claiming otherwise is just another dollop of the pointless polarising which adulterates far too many of the discussions on here.
 
I just dont buy it is all. Didnt work for Nottingham Forest or Leeds or St Ettiene or Borusia Moechengladbach or Steau Bucharest or Hamberg or Any other club who had consistent success in an era. We have no right to be a success. The teams who succeed are the best run, and we have been a fucking shambles for a decade. An embarrassing shambles.
Longer than a decade. It started in 1990 when John Smith retired as chairman and was replaced by a half witted clown. It became worse eight years later when Peter Robinson resigned as chief executive.
 
Sign them, don't fucking sign them.

I'm bored of paying exorbitant sums for overrated players on over inflated wages with over inflated egos.

*this will change of course if, either turns out to be very good, and lets face it, on our record its probably a 20% chance.
 
Preferably sooner rather than later we have to appoint a top class chief executive. We cannot continue long term with Ayre in this role.
 
FFS, not that non-argument again. NOBODY is saying we have any such right. Everybody knows we have to earn it. Those of us who remember the glory days are probably more aware of that than anybody else, given the direct comparisons we're able to make. We're equally aware of the gulf between the way we were run in those days and the grotesque porridge which the running of the club has since become.

However, none of those other clubs you mention got anywhere even close to our consistency of success over such a long period, and that *has* had an effect in the minds of people out there. Kristian, as a foreigner, is in a better position to judge that than any of us Brits, and we hear the same thing from other non-Brits on here. I hear it also from relatives and friends dotted around the world. Many players will chase the money, but not every single one and not to the total exclusion of other factors. The fact that Luis Suarez signed for us in the first place, and still plays for us despite having had big money offers from Paris and quite possibly elsewhere, is proof positive of this, and claiming otherwise is just another dollop of the pointless polarising which adulterates far too many of the discussions on here.
Suggesting we can sign players simply because of who we are suggests quite comfortably that we 'expect' it as a right.
We wont have players drop into our lap based upon the fact we won European cups. We sign players if we look an attractive proposition.
And your example of Luis Suarez is laughable given that we had to offer him an improved, extended contract ONE YEAR into his deal to make him not flutter his eyelashes elsewhere.
And I dont care if I polarise anything JJ. I think its laughably naive to think we are a draw on name alone, others dont. I couldnt really care less. I post so little because im quite well aware that im not the same as the majority of our fans. Thats fine too, we all love the club, were just different.
But yeah, Im sure Erikksen and Lavezzi are JUUUUUUuuust around the corner.
Then wont I look the fool.
 
Suggesting we can sign players simply because of who we are suggests quite comfortably that we 'expect' it as a right.
We wont have players drop into our lap based upon the fact we won European cups. We sign players if we look an attractive proposition.
And your example of Luis Suarez is laughable given that we had to offer him an improved, extended contract ONE YEAR into his deal to make him not flutter his eyelashes elsewhere.
And I dont care if I polarise anything JJ. I think its laughably naive to think we are a draw on name alone, others dont. I couldnt really care less. I post so little because im quite well aware that im not the same as the majority of our fans. Thats fine too, we all love the club, were just different.
But yeah, Im sure Erikksen and Lavezzi are JUUUUUUuuust around the corner.
Then wont I look the fool.

We did no more for Luis Suarez than we'd have done for any other player of the same quality in the same position.

The rest of that, as before, is "answering" points which I and those who agree with me simply haven't made.
 
Suggesting we can sign players simply because of who we are suggests quite comfortably that we 'expect' it as a right.
We wont have players drop into our lap based upon the fact we won European cups. We sign players if we look an attractive proposition.
And your example of Luis Suarez is laughable given that we had to offer him an improved, extended contract ONE YEAR into his deal to make him not flutter his eyelashes elsewhere.
And I dont care if I polarise anything JJ. I think its laughably naive to think we are a draw on name alone, others dont. I couldnt really care less. I post so little because im quite well aware that im not the same as the majority of our fans. Thats fine too, we all love the club, were just different.
But yeah, Im sure Erikksen and Lavezzi are JUUUUUUuuust around the corner.
Then wont I look the fool.

I think you're missing the point Oncy, no one is saying we have a 'right' that means the best in the World will come to us, no one is that arrogant. It wasn't the case at the height of our abilities and certainly isn't now for numerous reasons. What Kris and JJ are pointing out is that there are players out there who view us as a big club in historical terms and in terms of standing. They know we're a good club, a good brand with a rich history and that still gives us a greater chance of success through our fan base and what has always been a generally good squad. The basis will always be there for us to be successful, it's just a question of everyone pulling in the right direction. How often have we, on paper at least, been just a few signings short of being a top side? It's always been there, it's not as desperate as many make out, despite the troughs we've hit over the last 20 odd years, for every trough there's been as many, if not more, moments of magic that reminds us why we're a great club.

You're taking the point to the extreme and calling people deluded or whatever is a bit of an insult, we know where we're at, we're not fucking stupid, but we know what we're capable of aswell.
 
I think you're missing the point Oncy, no one is saying we have a 'right' that means the best in the World will come to us, no one is that arrogant. It wasn't the case at the height of our abilities and certainly isn't now for numerous reasons. What Kris and JJ are pointing out is that there are players out there who view us as a big club in historical terms and in terms of standing. They know we're a good club, a good brand with a rich history and that still gives us a greater chance of success through our fan base and what has always been a generally good squad. The basis will always be there for us to be successful, it's just a question of everyone pulling in the right direction. How often have we, on paper at least, been just a few signings short of being a top side? It's always been there, it's not as desperate as many make out, despite the troughs we've hit over the last 20 odd years, for every trough there's been as many, if not more, moments of magic that reminds us why we're a great club.

You're taking the point to the extreme and calling people deluded or whatever is a bit of an insult, we know where we're at, we're not fucking stupid, but we know what we're capable of aswell.
I think you and anyone else who thinks the name of Liverpool has any standing in players coming here ARE deluded.
And its not about the trough we are in, Its about how the game has changed and how the players have changed. Its got nothing to do with wether it mattered to players in the past. Players in the past knew they had made it when they signed for liverpool. Now Mascherano, Alonso, Arbeloa, Torres, Benayoun etc couldnt wait to get away. And all of the comments re-Suarez were made re-Torres 5 years ago when players already didnt give a fuck.
If you think the name or history of a club matters when players make a decision you ARE deluded.
They might mention it in interview because they know simple minded fans lap that shit up.
Its bullshit.
1.Money
2.Chance of success.
any other choices fall miles behind.
If Sunderland suddenly get taken over by a multi billionaire players will flock there too. Straight past our shambolic little former giant.
 
The chance of success point is interesting, of course it plays a part, it always has done, players want to win things, that doesn't make them fickle or mean that our standing as a club counts for nothing. As I eluded to in my post, because of what we've achieved throughout our history, we will always be a pull, so in essence you're agreeing with what we've just said anyway, people find us a pull because the chance of success with us is relatively high, which you only have to look at the history books to recognise. The margins and levels of success players are looking for is what cuts the level of players from each other, it always has done, there will always be exceptions, there will always be brainless morons who just care about their paypacket and there will always be the odd player who gives a shit.
 
'The club have given an eye-watering £31.3m to agents since 2008‑09'. That figure is digusting, if true, thats about 600,000 tickets. They're taking the piss out of the fans. Fucking agents!
 
The chance of success point is interesting, of course it plays a part, it always has done, players want to win things, that doesn't make them fickle or mean that our standing as a club counts for nothing. As I eluded to in my post, because of what we've achieved throughout our history, we will always be a pull, so in essence you're agreeing with what we've just said anyway, people find us a pull because the chance of success with us is relatively high, which you only have to look at the history books to recognise. The margins and levels of success players are looking for is what cuts the level of players from each other, it always has done, there will always be exceptions, there will always be brainless morons who just care about their paypacket and there will always be the odd player who gives a shit.
Im not agreeing at all Mark.
Because of our history you think our chance of success is higher.
I disagree.
 
One thing that's surprised me these days with all the exposure players get in the media, including social media, is how many don't actually like football that much, don't watch it that much, don't really have any interest in the history or in foreign leagues and so on. There are people on here who like football more than many of our players.
 
Im not agreeing at all Mark.
Because of our history you think our chance of success is higher.
I disagree.

The potential is always there for us to be successful. You've just had a groan in the Sterling thread about not knowing why's he's signed for us, because if it was you, you wouldn't. Whatever your outside view is, you clearly are missing the point, because it's happening - Sterling could have had his pick, but he's signed up with us. So if it counts for nothing, why's it still happening? People said we should break the bank to keep him, others believed the hacks that his demands were extortionate. We've gone for the inbetween and still retained his services, so it's not necessarily the money because the same level or higher would have been available elsewhere with a club more likely to succeed.
 
The potential is always there for us to be successful. You've just had a groan in the Sterling thread about not knowing why's he's signed for us, because if it was you, you wouldn't. Whatever your outside view is, you clearly are missing the point, because it's happening - Sterling could have had his pick, but he's signed up with us. So if it counts for nothing, why's it still happening? People said we should break the bank to keep him, others believed the hacks that his demands were extortionate. We've gone for the inbetween and still retained his services, so it's not necessarily the money because the same level or higher would have been available elsewhere with a club more likely to succeed.
Hold on a minute Mark, there is a WORLD of difference between a child signing an extension at a club he already feels is home and a top tier footballer choosing a club based on history.
Its pure fantasy mate.
 
He's 18. He can easily 'waste' two/three seasons trying his luck with a mid-table team (us) and then, if he's improved, can take his pick of any better teams that come in for him. It can be argued that it's not a case of "why sign for Liverpool?", it's "why not sign for Liverpool?" as we offer as much, or more, than any other mid-table team for him to develop his potential with.

Right, so who we are DOES have a baring on why we're able to attract and/or retain players? Whatever happens further down the line is based on how well we do, you can't pick and choose what aspects of a player being here applies to this insane logic that who we are means fuck all.
 
Hold on a minute Mark, there is a WORLD of difference between a child signing an extension at a club he already feels is home and a top tier footballer choosing a club based on history.
Its pure fantasy mate.

You're the one who brought 'top' tier players into the equation. We can sign high quality players, but obviously not everyone wants to come here, suggesting no one would come here because of who we are is bollocks, some players do, we might not have the pulling power to cherry pick the top players, but suggesting we can't and don't attract top players on that basis is rubbish.
 
From Footy365.com:

Perhaps the most intriguing aspect of Liverpool's apparent acquisition of Daniel Sturridge from Chelsea - the transfer is, by all accounts, a done deal - has been the rather lukewarm response from many supporters of the Merseyside club.

Not that Liverpool fans are unique in their ambivalence towards Sturridge, but they provide yet another example of the response the striker has been inspiring throughout his young career.

Sturridge's signature, lest it be forgotten, represents the procuring of a young, exciting forward who has already played for two of the last three Premier League champions. Of a goalscorer, comfortable anywhere across the forward line, who is unlikely to suffer from the self-doubt that has too often blunted Liverpool's attacks in recent seasons. And all for a very reasonable £12million

At least, that's one way of seeing it.

Others would say that merely 'exciting' is no longer enough at the age of 23. That an absence of progress has already seen Sturridge discarded by two of Liverpool's would-be competitors. They see a striker who doesn't score enough, a winger who doesn't work enough, and point to a troubling disparity between his touchline-jigging degree of narcissism and his tangible output on the pitch. And all for an exorbitant £12million.

Unfortunately for Sturridge himself, the majority of judgements - including, presumably, those wielding power at Stamford Bridge - seem to sway towards the latter.

The point here isn't that his reputation as an underperforming egotist is undeserved, but more that a footballer of his undoubted ability should not be finding Premier League success so elusive - after all, an overgrown ego has never stood in the way of many, if not most, of the game's finest players.

Not that Sturridge is some sort of Ronaldo-in-waiting - he clearly isn't - but it would be difficult not to see his career so far as something of an underachievement given the raw materials at his disposal.

The ex-Manchester City man has explosive pace, blindingly quick feet, and a natural eye for goal. And yet, despite boasting such an armoury, he seems wilfully unable to grasp the game's basics. Often, a straightforward cut-back been declined in favour of an absurd attempt at goal, or a head-down dribble been granted wrongful priority over some shrewder, simpler link-up play.

And, from such behaviour, an unenviable reputation has been carved. He plays for himself, goes the accusation, and compromises his team's efforts in the process.

Amidst the complaints of selfishness and arrogance, though, could it in fact be that he was actually trying too hard to prove himself during his sporadic outings for Chelsea? While the incessant stepovers and constant hammering of the ball goalwards was instinctively construed as self-indulgence, perhaps it was the case that the perennial benchwarmer and England hopeful was simply desperate to mark his rare appearances with a goal, an eye-catching piece of skill, or anything that might dismantle the apparently set-in-stone status quo that is Chelsea's first-choice striker.

Perhaps.

Ultimately, and for whatever reason, there's little doubt that Sturridge's on-field decision-making has thus far undermined his raw ability, depriving him, for the time being, of the chance to display his talents at the top level.

The fact that his best and most consistent form so far in his career came not at either of his parent clubs, but during his loan spell at Owen Coyle's Bolton Wanderers, would certainly seem to align with the oft-touted theory that the vainglorious Sturridge thrives as the proverbial big fish. Two years ago, Sturridge swaggered into the relegation-threatened club, mid-season, and helped keep them afloat with eight goals in 12 games. Back in London, though, in the far larger pond of Stamford Bridge, he has impressed rather less regularly.

(Sturridge himself would doubtless claim his form at Bolton corresponded with his position, Coyle being the only manager to consistently grant him a central striker's role - a case he is very much entitled to.)

Liverpool, in its current incarnation, would seem to provide something of a middle ground between the two. Anfield is hardly the pressure-free playground that the Reebok Stadium proved to be, but the division's 12th-placed club will provide far more leeway than Chelsea's elite-level pursuits in terms of patience and margin for error - both of these so important in a young footballer's development, yet so far denied to Sturridge.

Given Luis Suarez's dazzling form this season, the role as the side's spearhead forward will not be there for the taking. But nor will it be as perpetually unreachable as before, with an already versatile attack likely to have the luxury of rotation after the arrival of January's reinforcements.

Most crucially, though, the club need him. Desperately short of goals, creative flair, and, more basely, attackers in general, Sturridge will be a far more central figure with his new employers than has been the case before, Bolton aside.

And so, on paper, the move has many hallmarks of a fruitful one, despite the muted reaction from Merseyside. Offering some healthy room to breathe, greater security of a starting berth, and a club in need of goal-getting forwards, Liverpool would seem a fertile ground for Sturridge to blossom. Similarly, there's no doubt that the player will improve Brendan Rodgers' current squad, and with time on his side, the presumption should be that Rodgers will improve Sturridge, too.

But his critics are certainly right about one thing: at 23, time won't be on Daniel Sturridge's side for a great deal longer. If he doesn't start to impress soon, the excuses - so far just about legitimate - will fall on deaf ears. Time to show your worth, Danny.

Alex Hess - argue with him on Twitter
 
Preferably sooner rather than later we have to appoint a top class chief executive. We cannot continue long term with Ayre in this role.
Agreed, he has now messed up the whole Sterling saga, that should have been a done deal on his 18th birthday with all the press present at the signing and Rodgers bleating on about the promising future of the club with all the young talent coming through. Instead it looks now like we have trouble convincing our academy players to stay.
 
Right, so who we are DOES have a baring on why we're able to attract and/or retain players? Whatever happens further down the line is based on how well we do, you can't pick and choose what aspects of a player being here applies to this insane logic that who we are means fuck all.

You are confusing my point about us having "as much, or more, than any other mid-table team for him to develop his potential with" with us having a famous past. I'm only guessing, but we probably have some great training facilities, he feels settled [as Oncy said], we have a decent ground and good support and are giving youth a good chance in our first team. All in all, we aren't a bad place to be so there's no reason to go anywhere else right now; he can bide his time and see who comes in for him in a year or two.

I really don't think that having 5 European cups and 18 leagues titles has much bearing on that because we are nowhere near adding to those any time soon, meaning he hasn't stayed with us because of who we ARE and what we are about to do, but because we suit his current requirements.

I want to add here that I think this debate is suffering from unfortunate timing. My view is that whilst Rafa was in charge, we WERE still seen as one of the major teams and attracted players accordingly. Our recent (further) decline (from being top four) began during the latter period of his reign and we have since continued our inexorable slide into mediocrity. The relative speed of it means some of us haven't quite caught up with the fact that we are, in almost every sense, a mid-table team now.
 
If Raheem played for Norwich he wouldn't be an England International. Because he plays for one of the big boys he does. It's why he can get a great deal.

Liverpool, Arsenal, Utd players get noticed first. That's why some players sign, because they'll get all the publicity and prestige. Raheem at Liverpool will get all the attention he needs and probably craves not only in UK but worldwide.

Obviously Chelsea and Citeh can offer better money and do deals because of it but they don't have the cache. At both clubs he'd probably be a better paid squad member. At Liverpool he'll be in the first team, if he does well and makes us better then great and if he does well personally but wants away we'll get a big fee.
 
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