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Short Term Pain - Long Term Gain ?

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Frogfish

Gone to Redcafe
Member
RAFAEL BENITEZ has revealed for the first time the extent of the financial restraints he is forced to work within at Liverpool – but remains convinced he can guide the team to a top-four finish this season.

And the Anfield manager has dismissed the notion the club are on the brink of meltdown following their Champions League exit and the huge debts imposed on them by co-owners George Gillett and Tom Hicks.

The American duo, who will be present when Liverpool entertain Arsenal tomorrow, have been told by the banks to reduce the level of their arrears.

It has meant Benitez has had to balance the books in the transfer market as he attempts to keep pace with his big-spending rivals at the top of the Premier League.

And while eschewing any fears Liverpool could capitulate in a manner similar to that of Leeds United earlier in the decade, the Spaniard acknowledges there will be short-term pain before the benefits of long-term gain are reaped.

“I don’t see Liverpool in the same way as Leeds,†said Benitez. “One of the priorities this year was to reduce the debt so the club is working very hard to do this so I think that our position will be much better.

“We were doing a very good job this year trying to reduce the debt. It was one of the most important things that we had to manage. Along with football issues we had to manage them together, you have to think about the big picture sometimes.

“When I signed my five-year contract we knew that we had to work together so we will try to do the best for the club. Sometimes you can do it and still perform on the pitch and sometimes you have to wait a little bit.

“Liverpool is a top side and everyone is expecting every single year to win trophies, trophies, trophies. The reality is that we have to work very hard to be at the same level as the other teams.â€

While the public revelations could be construed as an attack on Liverpool’s American owners, Benitez believes the supporters must accept the reality of the club’s financial situation.

The manager is again unlikely to be given any funds during the forthcoming January transfer window, with any transfers being facilitated by the departure of current squad members.

Benitez said: “Can we do something in January? We will see but we are working hard, we are working together but you cannot guarantee anything.

Full Article : http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2009/12/12/supporters-have-to-accept-liverpool-fc-s-financial-situation-rafael-benitez-92534-25374760/?

So depressing.
 
Reality sucks.

But I am sure some will begin to rank rant that Rafa is already making excuses, one after another...

Roll on 2010!


edit: typo, sorry
 
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=37849.msg1012265#msg1012265 date=1260597151]
Reality sucks.

But I am sure some will begin to rank that Rafa is already making excuses, one after another...
[/quote]

Reality does suck Y1, but part of that reality is that Rafa has over the years managed expectations and used the clubs finances to deflect blame. He used to be able to complain directly, however now because of contractual obligations, he is achieving the same end result by appearing to defend the actions of the owners in paying down the debt.

Unlike some who found Rafa's prior complaints in the press as very unseemly, I found it a unfortunately necessary, hardnosed use of leverage in the context of ownership left rudderless in an open, petty split. Some of what Rafa says is reasonable, in the same way that much of Wenger's comments have been reasonable, however the latter made comments that made sense, both due to the fact that the short term actually lead to long term gain by way of a stadium, and because Wenger has demonstrated managerial transfer nous to meet the minimum standards to achieve success. That Rafa can do likewise, is at this point highly suspect.

I didn't expect us to challenge this title, in fact I expected us to go backwards, and we have.

Quite how disastrous it has been has been a surprise to me, but it hasn't been down to necessary long term pain, it's been down to a bit of bad luck exposing a lot of highly questionable transfer decisions given the available budget. I think the Americans have been penny wise pound foolish, but if they won't spend, and the last two transfer seasons are anything to go by, Rafa isn't the manager to patiently secure the financial essentials on a tight budget.

Ironic for a man brought in for toppling free spending giants.

At any rate, the essential message being given is as depressing as it is obvious and hardly what you want to admit from the top before a big game. A quick scan of the boards "will we get 4th place" in December shows that the supporters have quite quickly come to terms with the new targets. Given that, I'm not sure how you can construct Rafa's "defense" as much other than a sad, early, post mortem deflection. I was worried about the impact of our summer on the morale of the club, and this message, should results not turn in the near future, seems less cool logic, and more defeatism, especially given that there are two trophies we can still theoretically win.

I much prefer the terse "switched off" focused on the task at hand response. I'm seriously fucking depressed with the club, and instead of a rallying cry, there's this?
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37849.msg1012268#msg1012268 date=1260600654]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=37849.msg1012265#msg1012265 date=1260597151]
Reality sucks.

But I am sure some will begin to rank rant that Rafa is already making excuses, one after another...
[/quote]

Reality does suck Y1, but part of that reality is that Rafa has over the years managed expectations and used the clubs finances to deflect blame. He used to be able to complain directly, however now because of contractual obligations, he is achieving the same end result by appearing to defend the actions of the owners in paying down the debt.

Unlike some who found Rafa's prior complaints in the press as very unseemly, I found it a unfortunately necessary, hardnosed use of leverage in the context of ownership left rudderless in an open, petty split. Some of what Rafa says is reasonable, in the same way that much of Wenger's comments have been reasonable, however the latter made comments that made sense, both due to the fact that the short term actually lead to long term gain by way of a stadium, and because Wenger has demonstrated managerial transfer nous to meet the minimum standards to achieve success. That Rafa can do likewise, is at this point highly suspect.

I didn't expect us to challenge this title, in fact I expected us to go backwards, and we have.

Quite how disastrous it has been has been a surprise to me, but it hasn't been down to necessary long term pain, it's been down to a bit of bad luck exposing a lot of highly questionable transfer decisions given the available budget. I think the Americans have been penny wise pound foolish, but if they won't spend, and the last two transfer seasons are anything to go by, Rafa isn't the manager to patiently secure the financial essentials on a tight budget.

Ironic for a man brought in for toppling free spending giants.

At any rate, the essential message being given is as depressing as it is obvious and hardly what you want to admit from the top before a big game. A quick scan of the boards "will we get 4th place" in December shows that the supporters have quite quickly come to terms with the new targets. Given that, I'm not sure how you can construct Rafa's "defense" as much other than a sad, early, post mortem deflection. I was worried about the impact of our summer on the morale of the club, and this message, should results not turn in the near future, seems less cool logic, and more defeatism, especially given that there are two trophies we can still theoretically win.

I much prefer the terse "switched off" focused on the task at hand response. I'm seriously fucking depressed with the club, and instead of a rallying cry, there's this?
[/quote]

So true Fm, we are already admitting defeat. 4th in reality is the best we can hope for right now. It is like a kick in the teeth, a sucker punch before Christmas.
 
Jovetic and Upson eh?

Rafael Benítez admits debt has affected Liverpool's title hopes

• Financial constraints hit manager's plans
• Owners to attend game against Arsenal

Andy Hunter The Guardian, Saturday 12 December 2009

Rafael Benítez has conceded that Liverpool's title prospects were undermined this summer due to pressure to reduce the debt loaded on to the club by the owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett. In a frank admission ahead of tomorrow's game at home to Arsenal, the Liverpool manager also suggested the club are burdened by unrealistic expectation given a transfer budget that is unlikely to improve without new investment.

Benítez had until now steadfastly refused to blame Liverpool's financial predicament for the failure to build on last season's second-placed finish, despite spending only what he raised through player sales in the summer, after the American owners were ordered to lower the club's debt from £310m to £250m in their latest refinancing deal in July.

He departed from that policy yesterday, spurred by Graeme Souness's criticisms following Wednesday's Champions League defeat to Fiorentina, when the former Liverpool manager spoke of fears the club could follow Leeds United into "meltdown". Benítez delivered a considered assessment of Liverpool's finances rather than an outright attack on Hicks and Gillett, who are expected to attend the game at Anfield, but confirmed supporters' suspicions that debt has impacted on the pitch.

"I don't see Liverpool in the same way as Leeds," the Liverpool manager said. "One of the priorities this year was to reduce the debt so the club is working very hard to do this and I think that our position will be much better. We were doing a very good job this year trying to reduce the debt.

"It was one of the most important things that we had to manage. Along with football issues we had to manage them together. When I signed my five-year contract [in March] we knew that we had to work together so we will try to do the best for the club. Sometimes you can do it and still perform on the pitch and sometimes you have to wait a little bit. Sometimes you have to think about the big picture and the future of the club and that means you have to do your best on both sides."

Benítez is assumed to have spent around £38.5m on new players this summer and raised a similar sum through the sales of Xabi Alonso, Alvaro Arbeloa, Sebastián Leto and Paul Anderson. Liverpool did not actually pay out £38.5m, however. Roma revealed on their website they received only a first instalment of £5m on the £18m transfer of Alberto Aquilani, and Glen Johnson's £17m arrival from Portsmouth comprised writing off monies owed by the Fratton Park club for Peter Crouch and a loan fee for Jermaine Pennant.

The Liverpool manager also wanted to sign Stevan Jovetic from Fiorentina, before the Montenegro striker scored twice against his team in the Champions League, and Matthew Upson of West Ham, only to discover both were out of the club's financial reach. Asked if his net spend was nothing this summer, Benítez replied: "Yes."

Liverpool's managing director, Christian Purslow, has stated there was a net spend of £20m but that includes the new long-term contracts awarded to Steven Gerrard, Fernando Torres, Yossi Benayoun and Daniel Agger. "I think that we have to accept our situation and then try to do the best in the conditions that we have," Benítez said. "Can we improve with these conditions? I think so but it is a question of time."

Purslow has started a global search for new investors willing to meet the Americans' £100m asking price for a 25% stake in Liverpool. But Benítez denied the club are vulnerable to, for example, a big-money bid from Manchester City for Torres next month. "No chance. No chance," he said. "We will continue doing our job and continue keeping our players because we want to stay in the top four."

He was also adamant there will not be an exodus from Anfield should the team fail to qualify for the Champions League this season. He added: "We will be in the top four. I have to be positive. I am realistic. I see the players training every day and I can see that we have enough quality to finish in the top four."

Benítez said that the demanding expectations on Liverpool bore little relation to the financial reality of the club. He explained: "No one was expecting Valencia [his former club] to win the league after 31 years. The problem with Liverpool is that it is a top side and everyone is expecting every single year to win trophies, trophies, trophies. The reality is that we have to work very hard to be at the same level as the other teams.

"I have said before we have to be perfect. So if you make one mistake you can see the difference. We have to improve and then we will see if we can close the gap. I think the people inside the club know what the situation is and that is the reason why we are working together and trying to improve everything. It is difficult to explain to the media and the fans every single issue but we have to keep working inside and trying to do the best for the club."
 
Well I guess my friend was right.

Rafa knew his budget all summer long and spent half of it on a replacement that hasn't kicked a ball in really meaningful game yet.

Roll on next season as I guess this means Rafa will be here.
 
Jovetic would've been a nice, if very expensive, signing.

I don't think one summer can used to blame this on though. As Fark said, all it's done is simply expose in a rather cruel fashion mistakes made in previous years.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012281#msg1012281 date=1260608704]
Well I guess my friend was right.

Rafa knew his budget all summer long and spent half of it on a replacement that hasn't kicked a ball in really meaningful game yet.

Roll on next season as I guess this means Rafa will be here.
[/quote]

I don't think the article provides the facts of the case, because obviously Rafa has his own bias, but assuming this account is true, where in this article do you get confirmation of that position?

Why would Rafa ask for money and be denied it, if he knew the whole time how much money was available?
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012281#msg1012281 date=1260608704]
Well I guess my friend was right.

Rafa knew his budget all summer long and spent half of it on a replacement that hasn't kicked a ball in really meaningful game yet.

Roll on next season as I guess this means Rafa will be here.
[/quote]

You mean you're not enjoying this season then Dreamy?
 
I'm getting a little tired of these excuses (and that's what they are) popping up every week. It's like he's trying to pull the wool over our eyes or something.
 
To be fair Del, he's barely made mention of the finance thing this season. And even in this article he's hardly shoving it down our throats is he?
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37849.msg1012290#msg1012290 date=1260609935]
[glow=red,2,300][move]I'm getting a little tired of these excuses (and that's what they are) popping up every week. It's like he's trying to pull the wool over our eyes or something[/move].[/glow][/quote]
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37849.msg1012291#msg1012291 date=1260610029]
To be fair Del, he's barely made mention of the finance thing this season. And even in this article he's hardly shoving it down our throats is he?

[/quote]

He's mentioned it more than enough times for my liking. While I accept that we were restricted this year, he's had five other years where he's spent just as lavishly as the clubs he claims to be dwarfed by.

I get the impression that he feels if he keeps repeating it then people will start to believe it. I think it's worked in some cases.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37849.msg1012284#msg1012284 date=1260609359]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012281#msg1012281 date=1260608704]
Well I guess my friend was right.

Rafa knew his budget all summer long and spent half of it on a replacement that hasn't kicked a ball in really meaningful game yet.

Roll on next season as I guess this means Rafa will be here.
[/quote]

I don't think the article provides the facts of the case, because obviously Rafa has his own bias, but assuming this account is true, where in this article do you get confirmation of that position?

Why would Rafa ask for money and be denied it, if he knew the whole time how much money was available?
[/quote]

I mean this summer not the previous 5 before. I was told he knew exactly what he had to spend this summer and did so accordingly and this interview would point to that.

Would you not agree?
 
I think he's just stating the facts to be honest. And most media outlets are claiming it to be the first time anyone from the club's decided to tell the truth re the finances, so you can hardly claim he's been pulling these excuses out ad nauseum mate.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37849.msg1012285#msg1012285 date=1260609397]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012281#msg1012281 date=1260608704]
Well I guess my friend was right.

Rafa knew his budget all summer long and spent half of it on a replacement that hasn't kicked a ball in really meaningful game yet.

Roll on next season as I guess this means Rafa will be here.
[/quote]

You mean you're not enjoying this season then Dreamy?
[/quote]

Ryan in positie spin shocka!

I enjoyed the Utd game the derby and the West ham game.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012300#msg1012300 date=1260610928]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37849.msg1012284#msg1012284 date=1260609359]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012281#msg1012281 date=1260608704]
Well I guess my friend was right.

Rafa knew his budget all summer long and spent half of it on a replacement that hasn't kicked a ball in really meaningful game yet.

Roll on next season as I guess this means Rafa will be here.
[/quote]

I don't think the article provides the facts of the case, because obviously Rafa has his own bias, but assuming this account is true, where in this article do you get confirmation of that position?

Why would Rafa ask for money and be denied it, if he knew the whole time how much money was available?
[/quote]

I mean this summer not the previous 5 before. I was told he knew exactly what he had to spend this summer and did so accordingly and this interview would point to that.

Would you not agree?
[/quote]

If you want, I can edit my original c&p job of the article above and delete the bits about Jovetic and Upson, just to fully back your "mate's" made-up stories at the pub even further?
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012302#msg1012302 date=1260611058]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37849.msg1012285#msg1012285 date=1260609397]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012281#msg1012281 date=1260608704]
Well I guess my friend was right.

Rafa knew his budget all summer long and spent half of it on a replacement that hasn't kicked a ball in really meaningful game yet.

Roll on next season as I guess this means Rafa will be here.
[/quote]

You mean you're not enjoying this season then Dreamy?
[/quote]

Ryan in positie spin shocka!

I enjoyed the Utd game the derby and the West ham game.


[/quote]

http://sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=35123.msg921343#msg921343

Eat shit.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012281#msg1012281 date=1260608704]
Well I guess my friend was right.

Rafa knew his budget all summer long and spent half of it on a replacement that hasn't kicked a ball in really meaningful game yet.

Roll on next season as I guess this means Rafa will be here.
[/quote] Sorry DB. The article suggests otherwise. Rafa was in for Upsov and Jovetic only to be told the funds weren't available. That hardly suggests that he was fully aware of available finances.
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=37849.msg1012305#msg1012305 date=1260611275]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012281#msg1012281 date=1260608704]
Well I guess my friend was right.

Rafa knew his budget all summer long and spent half of it on a replacement that hasn't kicked a ball in really meaningful game yet.

Roll on next season as I guess this means Rafa will be here.
[/quote] Sorry DB. The article suggests otherwise. Rafa was in for Upsov and Jovetic only to be told the funds weren't available. That hardly suggests that he was fully aware of available finances.
[/quote]

I know.

Somebody get the facepalms out again please.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37849.msg1012303#msg1012303 date=1260611151]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012300#msg1012300 date=1260610928]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37849.msg1012284#msg1012284 date=1260609359]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012281#msg1012281 date=1260608704]
Well I guess my friend was right.

Rafa knew his budget all summer long and spent half of it on a replacement that hasn't kicked a ball in really meaningful game yet.

Roll on next season as I guess this means Rafa will be here.
[/quote]

I don't think the article provides the facts of the case, because obviously Rafa has his own bias, but assuming this account is true, where in this article do you get confirmation of that position?

Why would Rafa ask for money and be denied it, if he knew the whole time how much money was available?
[/quote]

I mean this summer not the previous 5 before. I was told he knew exactly what he had to spend this summer and did so accordingly and this interview would point to that.

Would you not agree?
[/quote]

If you want, I can edit my original c&p job of the article above and delete the bits about Jovetic and Upson, just to fully back your "mate's" made-up stories at the pub even further?
[/quote]

I don't ask anyone to believe it, just passing on what I've been told and its hardly a mates story from a pub when he lives in London.

But up to yourself.

Your bias for the bright side is getting almost as crazy as mine for the darkside.
 
DB. Is your "insider" a poster on here? If he is he is setting you up big time.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012309#msg1012309 date=1260611518]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37849.msg1012303#msg1012303 date=1260611151]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012300#msg1012300 date=1260610928]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37849.msg1012284#msg1012284 date=1260609359]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012281#msg1012281 date=1260608704]
Well I guess my friend was right.

Rafa knew his budget all summer long and spent half of it on a replacement that hasn't kicked a ball in really meaningful game yet.

Roll on next season as I guess this means Rafa will be here.
[/quote]

I don't think the article provides the facts of the case, because obviously Rafa has his own bias, but assuming this account is true, where in this article do you get confirmation of that position?

Why would Rafa ask for money and be denied it, if he knew the whole time how much money was available?
[/quote]

I mean this summer not the previous 5 before. I was told he knew exactly what he had to spend this summer and did so accordingly and this interview would point to that.

Would you not agree?
[/quote]

If you want, I can edit my original c&p job of the article above and delete the bits about Jovetic and Upson, just to fully back your "mate's" made-up stories at the pub even further?
[/quote]

I don't ask anyone to believe it, just passing on what I've been told and its hardly a mates story from a pub when he lives in London.

But up to yourself.

Your bias for the bright side is getting almost as crazy as mine for the darkside.
[/quote]

Utterly hopeless.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37849.msg1012304#msg1012304 date=1260611184]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012302#msg1012302 date=1260611058]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37849.msg1012285#msg1012285 date=1260609397]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012281#msg1012281 date=1260608704]
Well I guess my friend was right.

Rafa knew his budget all summer long and spent half of it on a replacement that hasn't kicked a ball in really meaningful game yet.

Roll on next season as I guess this means Rafa will be here.
[/quote]

You mean you're not enjoying this season then Dreamy?
[/quote]

Ryan in positie spin shocka!

I enjoyed the Utd game the derby and the West ham game.


[/quote]

http://sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=35123.msg921343#msg921343

Eat shit.
[/quote]
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=37849.msg1012311#msg1012311 date=1260611634]
DB. Is your "insider" a poster on here? If he is he is setting you up big time.

[/quote]

Nah. I mate from from London. Like I said I just pass it on. Take it or leave it no big deal.

And as for the manager asking. Financial situations can change and you can always ask.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012315#msg1012315 date=1260612283]
[quote author=the count link=topic=37849.msg1012311#msg1012311 date=1260611634]
DB. Is your "insider" a poster on here? If he is he is setting you up big time.

[/quote]

Nah. I mate from from London. Like I said I just pass it on. Take it or leave it no big deal.

And as for the manager asking. Financial situations can change and you can always ask.


[/quote]

Look, if you think that what your "insider" friend told you is true, and what this article says isn't true, that's fine. But you said that this article supported what your "insider" friend had previously said, which isn't true.

Can we move on now?
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37849.msg1012316#msg1012316 date=1260612545]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012315#msg1012315 date=1260612283]
[quote author=the count link=topic=37849.msg1012311#msg1012311 date=1260611634]
DB. Is your "insider" a poster on here? If he is he is setting you up big time.

[/quote]

Nah. I mate from from London. Like I said I just pass it on. Take it or leave it no big deal.

And as for the manager asking. Financial situations can change and you can always ask.


[/quote]

Look, if you think that what your "insider" friend told you is true, and what this article says isn't true, that's fine. But you said that this article supported what your "insider" friend had previously said, which isn't true.

Can we move on now?
[/quote]

I always think of the Father Ted "These are cows... Far away Dougal. Up close... Far away" episode when I see posters trying to break things down into manageable chunks for Dreamy on here.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012314#msg1012314 date=1260612020]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37849.msg1012304#msg1012304 date=1260611184]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012302#msg1012302 date=1260611058]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37849.msg1012285#msg1012285 date=1260609397]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37849.msg1012281#msg1012281 date=1260608704]
Well I guess my friend was right.

Rafa knew his budget all summer long and spent half of it on a replacement that hasn't kicked a ball in really meaningful game yet.

Roll on next season as I guess this means Rafa will be here.
[/quote]

You mean you're not enjoying this season then Dreamy?
[/quote]

Ryan in positie spin shocka!

I enjoyed the Utd game the derby and the West ham game.


[/quote]

http://sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=35123.msg921343#msg921343

Eat shit.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Excellent repost to a self-inflicted damning.
 
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