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Sakho v Lovren

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Rosco

Rosco

Worse than Brendan
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http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/mamadou-sakho-v-dejan-lovren-9798280

Some of the stats included in the article:

Dejan Lovren

Based on last season’s Premier League, here are the stats which reflect favourably on the Croatian.

Lovren’s figures are first

Appearances – 26 v 16

Minutes – 2,036 v 1,418

Aerial duels won (avg. per game) – 3.7 v 2.8

Aerial duels lost (avg. per game) – 1.4 v 2.1

Tackles (avg. per game) – 2 v 1.9

Tackles attempted (avg. per game) – 2.7 v 2.3

Interceptions (avg. per game) – 1.8 v 1.6

Clearances (avg. per game) – 7.8 v 5.9

Shots (avg. per game) – 0.7 v 0.1

Fouled (avg. per game) – 0.6 v 0.3

Dispossession (avg. per game) – 0.2 v 0.5

Bad control (avg. per game) – 0.1 v 0.6

Crosses blocked (avg. per game) – 0.2 v 0.1

Inaccurate short passes (avg. per game) – 3.7 v 4.6

Accurate long balls (avg. per game) – 2.8 v 2.4


Then Sakho :

And here are the statistics which favour Sakho, with the former PSG man’s figures appear second .

Pass completion - 85.2 % v 89.4%

Defensive errors – 6 v 2

Fouls conceded (avg per game) – 1.6 v 0.5

Dribbles (avg per game) – 0.1 v 0.7

Successful dribbles – 0% v 93%

Blocks (avg. per game) – 0.2 v 0.3

Key passes (avg. per game) – 0.1 v 0.3

Passes (avg per game) – 53.4 v 57

Dribbled past (avg. per game) – 0.7 v 0.4

Shots blocked (avg. per game) – 0.2 v 0.3

Passes blocked (avg. per game) – 0.2 v 0.5

Accurate short passes (avg. per game) – 42.7 v 48.5

Inaccurate long balls (avg. per game) – 4.2 v 1.5
 
Well in that case, since you reposted the link I put up a couple of days ago (tongue firmly in cheek) .. I'll repost this too :

WhoScored.com ‏@WhoScored
Mamadou Sakho: Only 2 defenders with 25+ PL apps since August 2013 have a better pass accuracy than @mamadousakho3 (91%) #LFC
 
So they're both shit, and if we could breed them we'd have a good defender, or Titus bramble
 
I don't think there's a huge deal between them, and I'm a bit baffled about the outrage over Lovren being selected over Sakho.

Lovren was awful in the beginning last season, but improved towards the fag end. He obviously gets more flak purely because of his cocksure attitude.

Sakho hasn't been really awful ever, but he hasn't been particularly great either. Sakho is the better passer given time and space, but he's prone to fumbling on the ball when there's a lot of pressure on him.

If a good defensive coach drills into Lovren's head how to hold a line, and when to push out, I think he'd inspire more confidence in me as a pure defender than Sakho.
 
I wouldn't get overly worked up about centre back passing stats.

The defensive errors thing is significant, or at least it might be if we knew what was counted as an error. I think it correlates with the impression you get from watching Lovren though.

That plus the fouls given away stat would be causes for concern with Lovren
 
dmishra said:
I don't think there's a huge deal between them, and I'm a bit baffled about the outrage over Lovren being selected over Sakho.
Click to expand...


Plenty are probably using it as another stick to beat Rodgers with.
 
Sakho is a top bloke and all but there's probably a reason PSG let him go.
I mean they've replaced him with two Brazilian trannies and are far better off.
We basically had no competition for his signing.
 
I honestly don't think Sakho has it in him to produce the sort of solid performance Lovren put in at the weekend. That said, on the evidence of last season it remains very much to be seen if Lovren can repeat it consistently himself. If he can, he's a far better option than Sakho. If he can't, we need a new CB.
 
Lovren has the turning radius of a Hummer, players blaze past him at will. Happened at Stoke on the byline. Thats the problem. What made him slightly better near the end of last season was that he stopped rushing out early to try to intercept an attack early, because he was getting beaten like Ronda Rousey's last 3 opponents every time. If we can hide that deficiency like Southampton did we may have a solid defense. But I think Sakho is the better defender and player in general.

Lovren also is infuriatingly poor in the opponent's box. He should stay back for corners. He's missed 6-8 free headers for us since he got here. And by missed, I mean he hasn't even hit the target.
 
leftpeg said:
I honestly don't think Sakho has it in him to produce the sort of solid performance Lovren put in at the weekend. That said, on the evidence of last season it remains very much to be seen if Lovren can repeat it consistently himself. If he can, he's a far better option than Sakho. If he can't, we need a new CB.
Click to expand...

WHAAAT? Sakho was one of the big reasons we went on that unbeaten run last year. As soon as he got injured it started to crumble.

Do people not remember how Can and Sakho started every attack in the back 3. Teams started out trying to exploit Sakho and it didn't work. Then they went to Can's side and it was mildly more successful.
 
On the poll on the echo 89% prefer Sahko. I can't for the life of me think why we are hawking him out to the Italian clubs. He has been much better than Lovren. That's our manager for you I suppose
 
Lovren or Sahko is not such a big deal for me. I'd rather see skrtl binned.

But Toure on the bench instead of Sahko?
what's that all about then?
 
Or it doesnt matter who of them plays as long as its working defensively and we're winning.

I wanted Sakho to start because of Lovrens poor last season and not to impressive pre season.
He grabbed his chance with both hands though and produced a very impressive performance.
He should definetly keep his place for the next games coming up.

We need a settled back four. Continue with Clyne Skrtel Lovren Gomez
 
Lucas said:
WHAAAT? Sakho was one of the big reasons we went on that unbeaten run last year. As soon as he got injured it started to crumble.
Click to expand...

That's not exactly correct though I think.

Yes, you're right that our defence held up well when we were playing three at the back with Sakho and Can flanking Skrtel. However, what happened after a good run of 9 games (6 wins, 3 draws) was this: **

- Sakho got injured for a stretch of 3 games. Lovren filled in, and we still went on to win all those games and concede 1. We played Southampton away, and City and Burnley at home.

- Sakho returned and Lovren went back to the bench for the next 3 games. We beat Swansea (clean sheet) and then conceded 6 in the next 2 games at home against the Mancs and away to Arsenal.

- Sakho then got injured again for the next 6 games and again, Lovren filled in. We got 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 defeats, conceding 6 goals in 6 games.

- Sakho then returned for the last game against Stoke and Lovren was benched. Let's not bother with the score for that one.

** I can't recall all the games obviously, so had to look at the transfermarkt list of results to work the sequence of events out.

So as you can see, the record isn't necessarily as clear-cut. Not having Skrtel for the game against Arsenal was a killer (Lovren was on the bench), but the following week, with him still suspended, we kept a clean sheet against Newcastle with a Lovren - Can CB pairing. Yeah, it's weird. It's true our defensive record wasn't good enough in the stretch of 6 games without Sakho, but I don't think the crumbling as you said is all down to just the Sakho / Lovren swap, just as the good streak is not just down to Sakho being in there ahead of Lovren. It's a factor no doubt - Lovren in a back three is a weaker option than Sakho in a back three (reasons below), I agree.

I prefer Sakho to Lovren as well at this point, because I think he has better pace and hence recovery speed (at least it seems to me he's faster), as well as better ability to defend out wide. And of course, he doesn't have that blood rush to the head to go out and over-commit on a big Hollywood tackle. In the event that Moreno is playing at LB, I'd definitely want Sakho in there ahead of Lovren because of the above. If either of them has Gomez (or even a fit Flanagan) on their left though, I think then the difference is not as significant because then Lovren's shortcomings would be somewhat masked out.
 
Contrast of posting style there. @studsup takes the old fact-based approach to counter @Lucas' use of capitals and three 'A's in "WHAAAT". Who wins? You decide.
 
Depressing times when we're trying to work out whos less shite out of the two of them.

I believe both have the capacity to be great players for the club but quite simply both can't play, one needs to go , or settle for a squaddie role, I'd prefer that were Lovren but I don't really care one way or another .

I dont think the world of skrtel but after a sticky period under Rodgers hes really managed to consolidate his starter status . I imagine the new contract he signed guarantees that starting birth for a while yet too.
 
Aidan O' Neill said:
Because he looks awkward on the ball, but actually has a good pass completion rate, with the occasional brainfart of a pass.
Click to expand...


It's a shit stat though. Last season and the season before Skrtel was over 90% completion and played well over twice the minutes. The two players ahead of him in the since 2013 stats are Arsenals center halves. Passing accuracy stats clearly reflect the style of play the manager employs.

I'd be more concerned with this, which swings massively in Sakhos favour:

Rosco said:
Defensive errors – 6 v 2
Click to expand...

But the big stat against Sakho is his minutes played, he only manages half the minutes of other top center halves a season. Mostly because of injury I guess.

But credit to Lovren and the manager, I thought he looked good at the weekend. I get the feeling Brendan has gone off Sakho.
 
studsup said:
That's not exactly correct though I think.

Yes, you're right that our defence held up well when we were playing three at the back with Sakho and Can flanking Skrtel. However, what happened after a good run of 9 games (6 wins, 3 draws) was this: **

- Sakho got injured for a stretch of 3 games. Lovren filled in, and we still went on to win all those games and concede 1. We played Southampton away, and City and Burnley at home.

- Sakho returned and Lovren went back to the bench for the next 3 games. We beat Swansea (clean sheet) and then conceded 6 in the next 2 games at home against the Mancs and away to Arsenal.

- Sakho then got injured again for the next 6 games and again, Lovren filled in. We got 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 defeats, conceding 6 goals in 6 games.

- Sakho then returned for the last game against Stoke and Lovren was benched. Let's not bother with the score for that one.

** I can't recall all the games obviously, so had to look at the transfermarkt list of results to work the sequence of events out.

So as you can see, the record isn't necessarily as clear-cut. Not having Skrtel for the game against Arsenal was a killer (Lovren was on the bench), but the following week, with him still suspended, we kept a clean sheet against Newcastle with a Lovren - Can CB pairing. Yeah, it's weird. It's true our defensive record wasn't good enough in the stretch of 6 games without Sakho, but I don't think the crumbling as you said is all down to just the Sakho / Lovren swap, just as the good streak is not just down to Sakho being in there ahead of Lovren. It's a factor no doubt - Lovren in a back three is a weaker option than Sakho in a back three (reasons below), I agree.

I prefer Sakho to Lovren as well at this point, because I think he has better pace and hence recovery speed (at least it seems to me he's faster), as well as better ability to defend out wide. And of course, he doesn't have that blood rush to the head to go out and over-commit on a big Hollywood tackle. In the event that Moreno is playing at LB, I'd definitely want Sakho in there ahead of Lovren because of the above. If either of them has Gomez (or even a fit Flanagan) on their left though, I think then the difference is not as significant because then Lovren's shortcomings would be somewhat masked out.
Click to expand...


Hey Studsy, howzit going? I appreciate the analysis as with most things you post. Its definitely hard to judge based on memory, but I still prefer to use that as results never tell the full story. And in this case aren't truly indicative of what we saw. We looked more sturdy before he got injured. The Southampton and City games were impressive results. But we also had a troubling time creating in those games. Lovren was much poorer at playing out from the back and had to play on the more defensive front given his complete lack of pace. If I remember correctly we scored a few worldies in those two games. The disruption to the team though was evident. The statistics on our defensive stability with and without both of them for the season would show a very clear slant in favor of Sakho.

As with regards to Sakho coming back, I don't know if he was 100% fit when he came back. Seems like that is justified by him getting injured a couple games letter. We tend to rush players back a little too soon.

As for the comparison of the two, I think every benefit the sturdy back four would have to Lovren's game would help Sakho just as much. But his ability to pass out from the back and his overall reactions are much better. Thankfully we have Clyne and Gomez now, as things are much better now. However, Sakho's injury record is a huge issue. That is about the only reason to see if Lovren is the man for us. If he isn't then we will probably need to buy again.


leftpeg said:
Contrast of posting style there. @studsup takes the old fact-based approach to counter @Lucas' use of capitals and three 'A's in "WHAAAT". Who wins? You decide.
Click to expand...

@leftpeg, it was in response to this thick as shit statement of yours that I emboldened to help you; "I honestly don't think Sakho has it in him to produce the sort of solid performance Lovren put in at the weekend." It's a ridiculous comment and was proven wrong by that run of form.
 
In every game he plays, Sakho looks like an accident waiting to happen. Sometimes the accident doesn't happen but all too often it does. Lovren was terrific on Sunday and I just don't see Sakho being able to put in a performance like that consistently. Perhaps Lovren can't either but we'll see.
 
Here's some stats. Lovren first:

Captained national team of cheese eating surrender monkeys 0 - 1

Captained national team who has a hero that once piled into a riot and started on a policeman 1-0
 
Comical Aly said:
Here's some stats. Lovren first:

Captained national team of cheese eating surrender monkeys 0 - 1

Captained national team who has a hero that once piled into a riot and started on a policeman 1-0
Click to expand...
That must have been funnier in your head than it appears on screen. Surely.
 
Lucas said:
No, but Sakho LOOKS like he is going to make a mistake despite making 2 to Lovren's 6. Sakho had the confidence to truly take the piss with skill in some games last year.
Click to expand...


I think this is the crux of it for most people. It certainly is for the 99% of pundits that are brainless.

I actually haven't lost all faith in Lovren and think there's some potential there. I have said as much when talking about him. I think he looked worse than he is last year. However, do we really have to post those clips and images Ryan did a few months ago? He was hopeless. Sakho has never looked that bad.

The support for him and the preference of him over Sakho is confusing me a bit actually. I didn't think people would flip flop so easily, but it seems they have after the one good game against Stoke.

If he plays well for a run of a few months (like Sakho did) then people might be able to draw comparisons between the two. Sakho, however, has looked the better player while he's been here. No doubt about that.
 
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