More ammo to the Purslow-haters, I suppose, but Hodgson makes a very good point here...
Roy to the snake: shall we forget the Europa League, bossssss?
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Roy is trying to cover himself here and fair enough, I suppose. It's not going to be easy to make it through the qualifiers with a bunch of kids, no matter what kind of pub team we're playing.
It'd be a nice surprise to see a team of these kids step up and do a job though.
It'd be a nice surprise to see a team of these kids step up and do a job though.
It might also be beneficial for our league season to go out of the Europa at the early stages. We all know it, but I'm still kind of surprised that Hodgson came out and said it.
I don't think Roy is covering himself here. I guess it's fairly obvious to the fans what are the players we will have available for the matches and as such, adjust our expectations accordingly.
Now would a great time for the youngsters to grab their chance to establish themselves for next season, I certainly hope some of them will step up.
Now would a great time for the youngsters to grab their chance to establish themselves for next season, I certainly hope some of them will step up.
europa should be given as much consideration as the carlin cup this season. our first priority should be making top 4, everything else is just gravy.
Im happy he has come out and said this..
i could imagine a right bitch and moan from tonnes of people if we were to get knocked out early.
Id be happy if we used the Europa cup for the reserves. I think it will simply hamper our attempts to get back into the top 4- Which is surely the ultimate target.
i could imagine a right bitch and moan from tonnes of people if we were to get knocked out early.
Id be happy if we used the Europa cup for the reserves. I think it will simply hamper our attempts to get back into the top 4- Which is surely the ultimate target.
Joe Cole played about 45 minutes in the world cup about a month ago!!! Carragher just 2 games in late June! Babel ZERO! Reina ZERO.
Surely we can cobble together a workable 11 to got past dr.robotnik or whoever the fuck it is. Sports science yer arse, they've barely kicked a ball since may!
Reina
Kelly
Ayala
The Greek
Carragher
Lucas
Aquilani
Babel
Cole
Ngog
Ecclestone.
Surely we can cobble together a workable 11 to got past dr.robotnik or whoever the fuck it is. Sports science yer arse, they've barely kicked a ball since may!
Reina
Kelly
Ayala
The Greek
Carragher
Lucas
Aquilani
Babel
Cole
Ngog
Ecclestone.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41098.msg1140959#msg1140959 date=1279871487]
Joe Cole played about 45 minutes in the world cup about a month ago!!! Carragher just 2 games in late June! Babel ZERO! Reina ZERO.
Surely we can cobble together a workable 11 to got past dr.robotnik or whoever the fuck it is. Sports science yer arse, they've barely kicked a ball since may!
Reina
Kelly
Ayala
The Greek
Carragher
Lucas
Aquilani
Babel
Cole
Ngog
Ecclestone.
[/quote]
Yeah I think a few will make the squad Oncy, he's just pointing out the real scenario that we could go out due to having a weak squad, which in turn puts pressure on us to buy.
Joe Cole played about 45 minutes in the world cup about a month ago!!! Carragher just 2 games in late June! Babel ZERO! Reina ZERO.
Surely we can cobble together a workable 11 to got past dr.robotnik or whoever the fuck it is. Sports science yer arse, they've barely kicked a ball since may!
Reina
Kelly
Ayala
The Greek
Carragher
Lucas
Aquilani
Babel
Cole
Ngog
Ecclestone.
[/quote]
Yeah I think a few will make the squad Oncy, he's just pointing out the real scenario that we could go out due to having a weak squad, which in turn puts pressure on us to buy.
Just because some of the players didn't feature in their teams didn't mean they didn't train! They need rest, especially Carragher.
The thing is, of course, that Carragher will desperately want to play. As we know, his depth of footballing knowledge has brought him to the obvious conclusion that the UEFA cup is a harder cup to win than it's big brother, and he'll be aching to get his hands on it again.
This is definitely a case of Hodgson taking a look at the deep recesses of our squad and thinking we might not start off so well.
The thing is, of course, that Carragher will desperately want to play. As we know, his depth of footballing knowledge has brought him to the obvious conclusion that the UEFA cup is a harder cup to win than it's big brother, and he'll be aching to get his hands on it again.
This is definitely a case of Hodgson taking a look at the deep recesses of our squad and thinking we might not start off so well.
Well that's just fucking ridiculous Farky. A select fans 11 should be able to beat them over two legs.
It sends out the wrong message and makes us just another Villa.
Were in it and should be making positive noises about winning it. Not a cursory look to our best 11 and a quiet shake of the head.
It sends out the wrong message and makes us just another Villa.
Were in it and should be making positive noises about winning it. Not a cursory look to our best 11 and a quiet shake of the head.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41098.msg1140959#msg1140959 date=1279871487]
Joe Cole played about 45 minutes in the world cup about a month ago!!! Carragher just 2 games in late June! Babel ZERO! Reina ZERO.
Surely we can cobble together a workable 11 to got past dr.robotnik or whoever the fuck it is. Sports science yer arse, they've barely kicked a ball since may!
Reina
Kelly
Ayala
The Greek
Carragher
Lucas
Aquilani
Babel
Cole
Ngog
Ecclestone.
[/quote]
I side with this, although I'd play Wilson over Carragher.
Joe Cole played about 45 minutes in the world cup about a month ago!!! Carragher just 2 games in late June! Babel ZERO! Reina ZERO.
Surely we can cobble together a workable 11 to got past dr.robotnik or whoever the fuck it is. Sports science yer arse, they've barely kicked a ball since may!
Reina
Kelly
Ayala
The Greek
Carragher
Lucas
Aquilani
Babel
Cole
Ngog
Ecclestone.
[/quote]
I side with this, although I'd play Wilson over Carragher.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41098.msg1140972#msg1140972 date=1279872548]
Well that's just fucking ridiculous Farky. A select fans 11 should be able to beat them over two legs.
It sends out the wrong message and makes us just another Villa.
Were in it and should be making positive noises about winning it. Not a cursory look to our best 11 and a quiet shake of the head.
[/quote]
I agree wholeheartedly regarding it not being the right message, and the fact that we should be able to find a blend that works without risking the talent we need to rest. In fact I'm not sure what we are in disagreement about, other than that players like Carragher do actually require rest, even though they didn't play much in the world cup. The still were denied down time and kept themselves at peak fitness.
Well that's just fucking ridiculous Farky. A select fans 11 should be able to beat them over two legs.
It sends out the wrong message and makes us just another Villa.
Were in it and should be making positive noises about winning it. Not a cursory look to our best 11 and a quiet shake of the head.
[/quote]
I agree wholeheartedly regarding it not being the right message, and the fact that we should be able to find a blend that works without risking the talent we need to rest. In fact I'm not sure what we are in disagreement about, other than that players like Carragher do actually require rest, even though they didn't play much in the world cup. The still were denied down time and kept themselves at peak fitness.
Like I said before, fuck the Europa Cup.
Top win it we'd end up playing an extra 20 or so games in a season where getting back into the top 4 has to be our priority.
We could win the FA/Carling Cups for much less games should we have to win some silverware this season.
Play the kids.
Top win it we'd end up playing an extra 20 or so games in a season where getting back into the top 4 has to be our priority.
We could win the FA/Carling Cups for much less games should we have to win some silverware this season.
Play the kids.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41098.msg1140972#msg1140972 date=1279872548]
Well that's just fucking ridiculous Farky. A select fans 11 should be able to beat them over two legs.
It sends out the wrong message and makes us just another Villa.
Were in it and should be making positive noises about winning it. Not a cursory look to our best 11 and a quiet shake of the head.
[/quote]
Surely then the right way to go about it is field the youngsters, and be confident that we will win.
There are two questions posed by Roy
1. Should we treat UEFA cup as a serious tournament
2. Should we use our players (who have just returned for training)
The answer for the first is very clear. We should never have that attitude that losing is alright. No matter who is playing. It is absolutely wrong to tell young players early in their career that it is ok to lose.
The second is not just about the number of minutes players have played. They kept up physical training during the world-cup and they have been given 3 weeks rest after that. Some have just started light training and others have not even returned. Is it really advisable to start a new season with compromised pre-season fitness programs for about 13 or 14 first team players?
I think we can field a team without involving these players, and still expect to win. All these players need to get on with the program. Some more players can be made available for the second leg, depending on where they are in their training regimen.
Well that's just fucking ridiculous Farky. A select fans 11 should be able to beat them over two legs.
It sends out the wrong message and makes us just another Villa.
Were in it and should be making positive noises about winning it. Not a cursory look to our best 11 and a quiet shake of the head.
[/quote]
Surely then the right way to go about it is field the youngsters, and be confident that we will win.
There are two questions posed by Roy
1. Should we treat UEFA cup as a serious tournament
2. Should we use our players (who have just returned for training)
The answer for the first is very clear. We should never have that attitude that losing is alright. No matter who is playing. It is absolutely wrong to tell young players early in their career that it is ok to lose.
The second is not just about the number of minutes players have played. They kept up physical training during the world-cup and they have been given 3 weeks rest after that. Some have just started light training and others have not even returned. Is it really advisable to start a new season with compromised pre-season fitness programs for about 13 or 14 first team players?
I think we can field a team without involving these players, and still expect to win. All these players need to get on with the program. Some more players can be made available for the second leg, depending on where they are in their training regimen.
Roy says initially that he's worried about not having enough players, but then goes on to say he expects more signings before the first league game. We all know what he's getting at, but it isn't the most impressive argument I've ever seen.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41098.msg1140997#msg1140997 date=1279874951]
Roy says initially that he's worried about not having enough players, but then goes on to say he expects more signings before the first league game. We all know what he's getting at, but it isn't the most impressive argument I've ever seen.
[/quote]
At the end of the interview he says he 'hopes' we can bring in some more players. It just sounds like a message to the board more than anything. It's not like he says the squad is thin but we WILL be bringing new players in.
Roy says initially that he's worried about not having enough players, but then goes on to say he expects more signings before the first league game. We all know what he's getting at, but it isn't the most impressive argument I've ever seen.
[/quote]
At the end of the interview he says he 'hopes' we can bring in some more players. It just sounds like a message to the board more than anything. It's not like he says the squad is thin but we WILL be bringing new players in.
Fair point but, the way he puts it, I took him to mean he thinks it's more likely than not. Can't see him having gone out on a limb in an interview if he didn't think that.
Roy should put out a strong team. Players returning from WC duty knew at the end of the season that we have Europa League qualifiers coming up and as such the club should have planned accordingly. These are professionals that get paid large amounts of cash. Get on with the job. What about desire and playing for the shirt?
As we progress, it will give us the option of blooding a few youngsters for the first team and refine the teams playing style.
As we progress, it will give us the option of blooding a few youngsters for the first team and refine the teams playing style.
It's nothing to do with the desire of the players, Roland. It's about the manager accepting or ignoring the advice of the newly appointed Sports scientists, whose job it is to see that the injury problems we've had in recent seasons are not repeated.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41098.msg1140997#msg1140997 date=1279874951]
Roy says initially that he's worried about not having enough players, but then goes on to say he expects more signings before the first league game. We all know what he's getting at, but it isn't the most impressive argument I've ever seen.
[/quote]
Surely the point is that he doesn't believe he can get any extra signings in time for the Europa League deadline? I don't see what's 'unimpressive' about that as an argument, it's just a fact.
And it would be ridiculously risky to pick our best players against medical advice, especially for a competition that really isn't top priority.
It's not a question of telling the young players it's OK to lose: just of not piling way too much pressure on lads who've (mostly) never even played first-team football before.
Roy says initially that he's worried about not having enough players, but then goes on to say he expects more signings before the first league game. We all know what he's getting at, but it isn't the most impressive argument I've ever seen.
[/quote]
Surely the point is that he doesn't believe he can get any extra signings in time for the Europa League deadline? I don't see what's 'unimpressive' about that as an argument, it's just a fact.
And it would be ridiculously risky to pick our best players against medical advice, especially for a competition that really isn't top priority.
It's not a question of telling the young players it's OK to lose: just of not piling way too much pressure on lads who've (mostly) never even played first-team football before.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=41098.msg1141040#msg1141040 date=1279881232]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41098.msg1140997#msg1140997 date=1279874951]
Roy says initially that he's worried about not having enough players, but then goes on to say he expects more signings before the first league game. We all know what he's getting at, but it isn't the most impressive argument I've ever seen.
[/quote]
Surely the point is that he doesn't believe he can get any extra signings in time for the Europa League deadline? I don't see what's 'unimpressive' about that as an argument, it's just a fact.
And it would be ridiculously risky to pick our best players against medical advice, especially for a competition that really isn't top priority.
It's not a question of telling the young players it's OK to lose: just of not piling way too much pressure on lads who've (mostly) never even played first-team football before.
[/quote]
First para - I read him more generally than that, i.e.as saying he's worried about not having enough players to cover all our commitments at a level he (and all of us) would want. If that's right, I maintain it then weakens his argument to draw attention to what appears to be an expectation on his part that there are more signings to come.
Agree with your second and third paras.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41098.msg1140997#msg1140997 date=1279874951]
Roy says initially that he's worried about not having enough players, but then goes on to say he expects more signings before the first league game. We all know what he's getting at, but it isn't the most impressive argument I've ever seen.
[/quote]
Surely the point is that he doesn't believe he can get any extra signings in time for the Europa League deadline? I don't see what's 'unimpressive' about that as an argument, it's just a fact.
And it would be ridiculously risky to pick our best players against medical advice, especially for a competition that really isn't top priority.
It's not a question of telling the young players it's OK to lose: just of not piling way too much pressure on lads who've (mostly) never even played first-team football before.
[/quote]
First para - I read him more generally than that, i.e.as saying he's worried about not having enough players to cover all our commitments at a level he (and all of us) would want. If that's right, I maintain it then weakens his argument to draw attention to what appears to be an expectation on his part that there are more signings to come.
Agree with your second and third paras.
[quote author=Whitey85 link=topic=41098.msg1141043#msg1141043 date=1279881574]
If our reserves can't beat these jokers then they don't deserve to be on the wage bill.
[/quote]
Those jokers still play week in, week out. We've seen teams come unstuck again unknown teams in the past, we struggle each season with the CL qualifier, due to a lack of match sharpness and fitness. And that's with a full team of internationals.
It's not Football Manager.
If our reserves can't beat these jokers then they don't deserve to be on the wage bill.
[/quote]
Those jokers still play week in, week out. We've seen teams come unstuck again unknown teams in the past, we struggle each season with the CL qualifier, due to a lack of match sharpness and fitness. And that's with a full team of internationals.
It's not Football Manager.
Roy Hodgson's a canny guy, he's managing expectations well. One week we get a top signing, the next we're worrying about squad depth and a second rate competition. His experience is showing, he doesn't want us to get too excited.
Just play the strongest available 11 Roy and hope there's enough quality to overpower Rabotnicki. He can't lose, if we win it shows our strength in depth, if we lose it's because he had to play the kids. He's in the honeymoon period, nobodies going to go overboard either way...are they?
Just play the strongest available 11 Roy and hope there's enough quality to overpower Rabotnicki. He can't lose, if we win it shows our strength in depth, if we lose it's because he had to play the kids. He's in the honeymoon period, nobodies going to go overboard either way...are they?
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=41098.msg1141019#msg1141019 date=1279878447]
It's nothing to do with the desire of the players, Roland. It's about the manager accepting or ignoring the advice of the newly appointed Sports scientists, whose job it is to see that the injury problems we've had in recent seasons are not repeated.
[/quote]
It's got everything to do with desire, not to mention planning Delinquent. Yes, the lads have been to the WC but only Kuyt played a pivotal part in the run up to the final. Torres got crocked making mostly cameos. Gerrard and Johnson played and England were knocked out in the first knockout round. Skrtel, Zorba and Agger didn't make the knock out stages so they should be relatively fresh. Carra, Babel, Maxi and Reina should be chomping at the bit because they hardly or didn't feature.
I understand that Roy is managing expectations but the players were aware that we'll be involved in Europa League qualifiers and the club should have made the necessary concessions. I understand the sport scientists' advice but can we really not afford to gamble considering our financial situation?
Haven't we just appointed Dr. No as the head of our sports science department who has a reputation as a small miracle worker?
We're in a catch 22 situation. I would love to concentrate on winning the Premiership and forego the Europa League this season but there are no guarantees. Surely the revenue generated there is necessary to help the club until new investors are found.
It's nothing to do with the desire of the players, Roland. It's about the manager accepting or ignoring the advice of the newly appointed Sports scientists, whose job it is to see that the injury problems we've had in recent seasons are not repeated.
[/quote]
It's got everything to do with desire, not to mention planning Delinquent. Yes, the lads have been to the WC but only Kuyt played a pivotal part in the run up to the final. Torres got crocked making mostly cameos. Gerrard and Johnson played and England were knocked out in the first knockout round. Skrtel, Zorba and Agger didn't make the knock out stages so they should be relatively fresh. Carra, Babel, Maxi and Reina should be chomping at the bit because they hardly or didn't feature.
I understand that Roy is managing expectations but the players were aware that we'll be involved in Europa League qualifiers and the club should have made the necessary concessions. I understand the sport scientists' advice but can we really not afford to gamble considering our financial situation?
Haven't we just appointed Dr. No as the head of our sports science department who has a reputation as a small miracle worker?
We're in a catch 22 situation. I would love to concentrate on winning the Premiership and forego the Europa League this season but there are no guarantees. Surely the revenue generated there is necessary to help the club until new investors are found.
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=41098.msg1141091#msg1141091 date=1279887923]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=41098.msg1141019#msg1141019 date=1279878447]
It's nothing to do with the desire of the players, Roland. It's about the manager accepting or ignoring the advice of the newly appointed Sports scientists, whose job it is to see that the injury problems we've had in recent seasons are not repeated.
[/quote]
It's got everything to do with desire, not to mention planning Delinquent. Yes, the lads have been to the WC but only Kuyt played a pivotal part in the run up to the final. Torres got crocked making mostly cameos. Gerrard and Johnson played and England were knocked out in the first knockout round. Skrtel, Zorba and Agger didn't make the knock out stages so they should be relatively fresh. Carra, Babel, Maxi and Reina should be chomping at the bit because they hardly or didn't feature.
I understand that Roy is managing expectations but the players were aware that we'll be involved in Europa League qualifiers and the club should have made the necessary concessions. I understand the sport scientists' advice but can we really not afford to gamble considering our financial situation?
Haven't we just appointed Dr. No as the head of our sports science department who has a reputation as a small miracle worker?
We're in a catch 22 situation. I would love to concentrate on winning the Premiership and forego the Europa League this season but there are no guarantees. Surely the revenue generated there is necessary to help the club until new investors are found.
[/quote]
You're missing the point, Roland. No matter how many or few minutes they played in matches, those players were training every day during the World Cup. Their comeback dates are structured to give each of them a necessary rest period of a certain length. That IS planning. What you're suggesting is just irresponsible and stupid, particularly given the relative unimportance of the competition.
And the Aussie doctor is precisely the guy who's telling Roy not to play them too early. Prevention is better than cure and all that...
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=41098.msg1141019#msg1141019 date=1279878447]
It's nothing to do with the desire of the players, Roland. It's about the manager accepting or ignoring the advice of the newly appointed Sports scientists, whose job it is to see that the injury problems we've had in recent seasons are not repeated.
[/quote]
It's got everything to do with desire, not to mention planning Delinquent. Yes, the lads have been to the WC but only Kuyt played a pivotal part in the run up to the final. Torres got crocked making mostly cameos. Gerrard and Johnson played and England were knocked out in the first knockout round. Skrtel, Zorba and Agger didn't make the knock out stages so they should be relatively fresh. Carra, Babel, Maxi and Reina should be chomping at the bit because they hardly or didn't feature.
I understand that Roy is managing expectations but the players were aware that we'll be involved in Europa League qualifiers and the club should have made the necessary concessions. I understand the sport scientists' advice but can we really not afford to gamble considering our financial situation?
Haven't we just appointed Dr. No as the head of our sports science department who has a reputation as a small miracle worker?
We're in a catch 22 situation. I would love to concentrate on winning the Premiership and forego the Europa League this season but there are no guarantees. Surely the revenue generated there is necessary to help the club until new investors are found.
[/quote]
You're missing the point, Roland. No matter how many or few minutes they played in matches, those players were training every day during the World Cup. Their comeback dates are structured to give each of them a necessary rest period of a certain length. That IS planning. What you're suggesting is just irresponsible and stupid, particularly given the relative unimportance of the competition.
And the Aussie doctor is precisely the guy who's telling Roy not to play them too early. Prevention is better than cure and all that...
S
Squiggles
Guest
I said over the summer than the Europa League was all well and good when we only had to play a few games to be in the final, but this year it will be an absolute bitch.
Hodgson knows that this squad isn't capable of competing on both fronts and I think that is the message he is sending out. Last season his Fulham side fell from 6th to 13th, because of their brilliant european run, and it's worthing pointing out that they started at the same stage as we do this year.
The simple fact is, our priority has to be getting into the CL, and the Europa Cup should never, ever compromise that.
Hodgson knows that this squad isn't capable of competing on both fronts and I think that is the message he is sending out. Last season his Fulham side fell from 6th to 13th, because of their brilliant european run, and it's worthing pointing out that they started at the same stage as we do this year.
The simple fact is, our priority has to be getting into the CL, and the Europa Cup should never, ever compromise that.
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