Reasons to worry ... Reasons to stay optimistic

[LeTallecWiz]

The negative firsts ...

1) If any of us doubted how important Xabi was to our midfield, today only highlighted how we will struggle with a midfield triangle of Gerrard, Masch & Lucas. I like all players BUT none of them can play Xabi's role, bar Gerrard, who needs to be further up the field.

2) Ok, I don't know what to say about Babel. Most people will tell me, "I told you so." Ok, he was poor today. He did try but he was just not very good. I don't know what to do about him ... Cut our losses perhaps?

3) Losing a season opener to a 'potential' top 4 challenger.

4) Torres is not quite there yet - not sure why, but he's still a bit behind pace.

5) It makes Stoke a must win game already.

Ok let's try and be optimistic

1) We played very poorly and still could have easily got a point if two rather strong penalty shouts would have been awarded.

2) Johnson's attacking play on the right flank is a welcome site, and he was fine defenisvely.

3) Pepe Reina is the best keeper in England. He could do nothing on those goals but those two world class saves in the first half were just wonderful.

4) I expected a poor performance a draw/loss to be honest here. I think this will rally the players ...

 

[Hooz]

Lucas and Babel are two players with ability but lacking application. I've been holding a hope in recent week that if these two can step up, grow up and impose themselves on games our title challenge could be significantly boosted.

Lucas was tidy enough today but Babel fucked up early on then weed himself for the rest of the game.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Reason to stay optimistic:

Our next 6 games are all quite friendly.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=Hooz link=topic=35273.msg925830#msg925830 date=1250446055]
Lucas was tidy enough today but Babel fucked up early on then weed himself for the rest of the game.
[/quote]

I'm almost off the "Babel Fan Club" ledge Hooz - please don't push me off yet. I still want to 'believe'.

I think Lucas is a very capable midfielder - but he's not starting material, and won't be once Aquilani is healthy.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35273.msg925831#msg925831 date=1250446100]
Our next 6 games are also quite friendly.
[/quote]

Let's hope for 6-0-1. That would be a nice start to the season, eh? Highly unlikely though.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35273.msg925833#msg925833 date=1250446187]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35273.msg925831#msg925831 date=1250446100]
Our next 6 games are also quite friendly.
[/quote]

Let's hope for 6-0-1. That would be a nice start to the season, eh? Highly unlikely though.
[/quote]

I don't know mate, they all look like 3 points if we can play anywhere near our best.

Stoke City H
Aston Villa H
Bolton Wanderers A
Burnley H
West Ham United A
Hull City H

 

[Hooz]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35273.msg925832#msg925832 date=1250446122]
I'm almost off the "Babel Fan Club" ledge Hooz - please don't push me off yet. I still want to 'believe'.
[/quote]

The Babel optimism that developed pre-season took a hiding today. Glum Hooz.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=Hooz link=topic=35273.msg925842#msg925842 date=1250446534]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35273.msg925832#msg925832 date=1250446122]
I'm almost off the "Babel Fan Club" ledge Hooz - please don't push me off yet. I still want to 'believe'.
[/quote]

The Babel optimism that developed pre-season took a hiding today. Glum Hooz.
[/quote]

Tell me about it - Is it a case of trying to too hard and not doing what he's good at, or that he's just not able to take it to the next level? I dunno ... Today just really disappointed me ...

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35273.msg925840#msg925840 date=1250446411]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35273.msg925833#msg925833 date=1250446187]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35273.msg925831#msg925831 date=1250446100]
Our next 6 games are also quite friendly.
[/quote]

Let's hope for 6-0-1. That would be a nice start to the season, eh? Highly unlikely though.
[/quote]

I don't know mate, they all look like 3 points if we can play anywhere near our best.

Stoke City H
Aston Villa H
Bolton Wanderers A
Burnley H
West Ham United A
Hull City H

[/quote]

Stoke City H - last season - draw
Aston Villa H - last season - win
Bolton Wanderers A - last season - win
Burnley H (WBA as a comparison) - win
West Ham United A - last season - draw
Hull City H - last season - draw

12 points - average 2 points per game - top 4 form
we've got to better that to be in championship form

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35273.msg925852#msg925852 date=1250447471]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35273.msg925840#msg925840 date=1250446411]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35273.msg925833#msg925833 date=1250446187]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35273.msg925831#msg925831 date=1250446100]
Our next 6 games are also quite friendly.
[/quote]

Let's hope for 6-0-1. That would be a nice start to the season, eh? Highly unlikely though.
[/quote]

I don't know mate, they all look like 3 points if we can play anywhere near our best.

Stoke City H
Aston Villa H
Bolton Wanderers A
Burnley H
West Ham United A
Hull City H

[/quote]

Stoke City H - last season - draw
Aston Villa H - last season - win
Bolton Wanderers A - last season - win
Burnley H (WBA as a comparison) - win
West Ham United A - last season - draw
Hull City H - last season - draw

12 points - average 2 points per game - top 4 form
we've got to better that to be in championship form
[/quote]

Didn't we beat WHU at their place last season? We definitely drew with them at home.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Tinto link=topic=35273.msg925853#msg925853 date=1250447670]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35273.msg925852#msg925852 date=1250447471]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35273.msg925840#msg925840 date=1250446411]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35273.msg925833#msg925833 date=1250446187]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35273.msg925831#msg925831 date=1250446100]
Our next 6 games are also quite friendly.
[/quote]

Let's hope for 6-0-1. That would be a nice start to the season, eh? Highly unlikely though.
[/quote]

I don't know mate, they all look like 3 points if we can play anywhere near our best.

Stoke City H
Aston Villa H
Bolton Wanderers A
Burnley H
West Ham United A
Hull City H

[/quote]

Stoke City H - last season - draw
Aston Villa H - last season - win
Bolton Wanderers A - last season - win
Burnley H (WBA as a comparison) - win
West Ham United A - last season - draw
Hull City H - last season - draw

12 points - average 2 points per game - top 4 form
we've got to better that to be in championship form
[/quote]

Didn't we beat WHU at their place last season? We definitely drew with them at home.
[/quote]

sorry my mistake I thought that was an 'H' rather than an 'A'
so it's 14 points from 6 games which is championship form.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35273.msg925831#msg925831 date=1250446100]
Reason to stay optimistic:

Our next 6 games are all quite friendly.
[/quote]I agree with this.
A really tough opening fixture vs easy games for Chelsea and Manchester has skewed perspective.
I expected (with Xabi leaving) an element of preoccupation with our midfield, but maybe not this much.
We played really poorly and got the same result as last year in a game we never really do well in.
Drawing with Stoke would be a greater cause for concern. But i dont believe ALL our key players will play that badly again.

 

[Hansern]

Didnt Utd start last season with 1 point from the first 2 games?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35273.msg925855#msg925855 date=1250447948]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35273.msg925831#msg925831 date=1250446100]
Reason to stay optimistic:

Our next 6 games are all quite friendly.
[/quote]I agree with this.
A really tough opening fixture vs easy games for Chelsea and Manchester has skewed perspective.
I expected (with Xabi leaving) an element of preoccupation with our midfield, but maybe not this much.
We played really poorly and got the same result as last year in a game we never really do well in.
Drawing with Stoke would be a greater cause for concern. But i dont believe ALL our key players will play that badly again.
[/quote]

at least this time round we were poor and got what we deserved compared to last season were we were brilliant and got robbed.

 

[Tinto]

A negative for me as I was watching the match was that Spurs looked sharper than us but thinking about it some more, it's not that surprising considering we had Skrtel, Carra and Gerrard unable to train properly due to injury. Also Torres is behind everybody else on the fitness anyway because of the extra time off due to the Confed Cup.

 

[Farkmaster]

I wasn't optimistic to begin with, in the sense that our best team starts out worse off than last year, and we haven't addressed depth in the positions that cost us winning last year.

This could be made up, because I have a shit memory, but I think two seasons ago we started our first game with Riise at LM, and I thought, well fuck me, isn't that the position everyone was looking for us to improve on?

Babel was more irrelevant today than Riise ever was, and yes we can do better, but Babel will have to play games, our fourth choice midfielder who is... ? will have to play games.

 

[LadyRed]

Thanks for this thread Wiz, I really needed reminding about how much we're missing Xabi.

*really sad face*

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Babel can fuck off. Bollocks to "needing games", please just sell him Rafa.

 

[spider-Neil]

not worth getting on someones back for one game and definately not worth laying the blame at the feet of one player. let's not try and blame babel for the defeat because frankly several people were just as responsible.

 

[Hansern]

We had a shîte pre season, and we continued in the same way as we had against Atletico and Espanyol.
No spark, no guts, no passion and the pace of the game hit us in the face. As I feared, we werent ready, and that is a result of plenty of factors.

We'll just have to pray Skrtel and Carra are ready for Stoke, and that we turn up from the start. Rafa better give our players a good bollocking!

 

[SaintGeorge67]

I'm not blaming him for the defeat by himself, I'm just tired of waiting for it to come good. I spent long enogh doing that with Bruno Cheyrou.

 

[V_For_V]

I havent felt this worried before a seasons start in a very long long time. Todays disappointment is not just in the defeat but the fact that the players out there with the exception of Babel, is the best that we can put out for the next 2-3 months.

I have little doubt we will be in the top 4 but I have my doubts we will challenge and that is simply down to the depth in the squad. I dont usually agree with Geln 'Mystic Meg' Hoddle but he makes a valid point when he say that the Spurs bench was far far stronger than ours.

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=35273.msg925886#msg925886 date=1250450150]
I wasn't optimistic to begin with, in the sense that our best team starts out worse off than last year, and we haven't addressed depth in the positions that cost us winning last year.

This could be made up, because I have a shit memory, but I think two seasons ago we started our first game with Riise at LM, and I thought, well fuck me, isn't that the position everyone was looking for us to improve on?

Babel was more irrelevant today than Riise ever was, and yes we can do better, but Babel will have to play games, our fourth choice midfielder who is... ? will have to play games.
[/quote]

With hindsight, it was a bad choice to start with both Lucas and Babel and I wasn't unhappy seeing Babel given his chance. However, asking one of them to step up was a big enough ask already never mind asking them both to do it.

To get the best out of Lucas and Babel, they need a run of games but we're not good enough at the moment to have to carry the both of them. So I think Rafa will need to choose one to back.

 

[keniget]

Babel wasn't helped on quite a few occasions by having no passing option to avoid losing the ball but that doesn't excuse the overall crapness of his display. I think it's back to impact sub for him and he'll have to try and work his way back into the starting lineup from there.

As for Lucas, I don't think it's a run of games he needs - he just needs the team to be playing well around him. That's the problem with turning to him to replace Alonso who had a major hand in helping us play well.

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=V_For_V link=topic=35273.msg925899#msg925899 date=1250450839]
I havent felt this worried before a seasons start in a very long long time. Todays disappointment is not just in the defeat but the fact that the players out there with the exception of Babel, is the best that we can put out for the next 2-3 months.

I have little doubt we will be in the top 4 but I have my doubts we will challenge and that is simply down to the depth in the squad. I dont usually agree with Geln 'Mystic Meg' Hoddle but he makes a valid point when he say that the Spurs bench was far far stronger than ours.
[/quote]

Well, our bench will look better once we have everybody fit. Agger, Aqualini, Riera and Aurelio are all out injured and I reckon they all would have started today if they had been available.

 

[V_For_V]

[quote author=Tinto link=topic=35273.msg925924#msg925924 date=1250451652]
[quote author=V_For_V link=topic=35273.msg925899#msg925899 date=1250450839]
I havent felt this worried before a seasons start in a very long long time. Todays disappointment is not just in the defeat but the fact that the players out there with the exception of Babel, is the best that we can put out for the next 2-3 months.

I have little doubt we will be in the top 4 but I have my doubts we will challenge and that is simply down to the depth in the squad. I dont usually agree with Geln 'Mystic Meg' Hoddle but he makes a valid point when he say that the Spurs bench was far far stronger than ours.
[/quote]

Well, our bench will look better once we have everybody fit. Agger, Aqualini, Riera and Aurelio are all out injured and I reckon they all would have started today if they had been available.
[/quote]

A slight improvement I would say. Riera in for Babel, Aquaman for Lucas and Aurelio for Insua, allot stronger looking line-up but with the exception of Benayoun that is still a rather week bench :-(

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Poor Insua!

He did nothing wrong today and yet it seems that quite a few posters want him dropped.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

I wouldn't drop him, he just had a poor game.

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35273.msg925840#msg925840 date=1250446411]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35273.msg925833#msg925833 date=1250446187]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=35273.msg925831#msg925831 date=1250446100]
Our next 6 games are also quite friendly.
[/quote]

Let's hope for 6-0-1. That would be a nice start to the season, eh? Highly unlikely though.
[/quote]

I don't know mate, they all look like 3 points if we can play anywhere near our best.

Stoke City H
Aston Villa H
Bolton Wanderers A
Burnley H
West Ham United A
Hull City H

[/quote]

talk about the kiss of death!

 

[Dirkus_Circus]

Another reason for optimism: We aren't BlueShite! lol 6-1