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Ratings - Bolton vs Liverpool

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Frogfish

Gone to Redcafe
Member
1st half / 2nd half

Reina - 7.5 + 7 - must be partly to blame for the goal (just a little) but another superb save. I love this guy. / Much quieter 2nd half for him but dominated his area.

Insua - 6 + 6 - can't blame him too much for the goal - both players missed the ball (it hit the Bolton player on the leg before coming back across the face of goal). / He does OK on that wing, especially when Riera is there to protect him and hold up the ball. The best thing is that no-one will be saying Riise fucked up, Dosenna fucked up etc. which in itself says something, Insua doesn't fuck up.

Zorba - 6 + 7 - good start but a couple of dodgy moments. Not to blame at all for the goal. / Looks great in the air at either end (Sami - like) and for his first outing after just a few days at the club he looks like a very decent 4th CB.

Carra - 5 +6 - Where is the Carra we know and love. In the wrong place for the goal. / I'm beginning to worry about Carra. He seems far less dominating than last season.

Johnson - 8 + 8.5 MoM - he gets an extra point for the goal. Working hard up and down that wing but unlike against Stoke he has had NO help at all from Kuyt / Superb - always a danger around their box whether crossing (A+) shooting (A) or Passing (A) also a very good defensive performance when it was required (A).

Masher - 6 + 6.5 - Doing the usual in defence but really not adding anything going forward. / Dominated the MF in the 2nd half. Should not have been taken off - that dishonour should have gone to Lucas.

Lucas - 4 + 5 - absolutely anonymous, terrible tackle for the FK that Pepe made a great save from. Zero assistance to the attack. / Really today was not one of his better days - how Rafa continues not to see when he is off form is beyond me. Contributed very little.

Riera - 7 + 7 - I would like to give him more as it seems Bolton are so frightened of Messi (sorry I meant Riera) that they have hacked him down mercilessly every time he has got the ball whenever one of there defenders was within distance of nailing him. / He was a huge thorn in the Bolton side and does everything that we expect from him (keep possession, bring other players into play and put in good crosses). Why on earth (unless tired) he was subbed is beyond me.

Gerrard - 4 + 8 - where are you !?! What is wrong with you ?!?! / Stepped it up 3 gears in the 2nd half ... and he gets an extra point for that superbly taken goal.

Kuyt - 2 + 4 - Oh Dear. Has he done even ONE thing right this half ? Poor tackling, passing, shooting, heading .. did I miss anything ? If I did that was poor too. Seems to have reverted to the Dirk of 2007/8 / A brilliant chest down for Torres and errrrr nothing else.

Torres - 4 + 8 - profligate. Just doesn't seem to have the right attitude. Where is the dude that stood up to Terry ? / Why did it take a red card to get his engine started ? Looked every bit the Torres we know for the last 20 mins - an extra point was given for the goal.

Voronin - 6
Benni - 7
Dossena - NA
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35540.msg935029#msg935029 date=1251574986]
worrying start to the season by both Carra & Kuyt ...
[/quote]

Someone said on here last season that carra's "spring" had gone in his legs. Every single time I've seen him this season that has been proved true. The rest of his game is a little below par, but that, combined with our lack of height throughout the defence, is making us a target for aerial threats this season.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=35540.msg935035#msg935035 date=1251575539]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35540.msg935029#msg935029 date=1251574986]
worrying start to the season by both Carra & Kuyt ...
[/quote]

Someone said on here last season that carra's "spring" had gone in his legs. Every single time I've seen him this season that has been proved true. The rest of his game is a little below par, but that, combined with our lack of height throughout the defence, is making us a target for aerial threats this season.
[/quote]

Yah, people have been saying that about Carra for ages ... I just wish we still had Sami because it seems we'll need far more rotation between our CBs ...

On the Kuyt issue - let's hope this isn't one of those 'long runs' where he plays like shit before going on a great run because a) we need him in order to make a push on the league and b) Rafa won't drop him, so we need him to be at his best.
 
Pepe: 7ish. Couldn't be faulted for either goal, wonderful save from the free kick. Caused one or two needless scares with his ultra-relaxed approach to onrushing attackers when receiving a back pass!

Glen: 9. Brilliant player. Best RB since Marcus.

Carra: 6. Looks out of sorts without being horrible. Maybe the bandage is skewing his equilibrium..?

Greek Fella: 5. Looked strong early, but poor at times, seeming to need too much time on the ball on a few occassions, watched the bloke score their first from the wrong side of him, and overall looked exactly like what he is... Brand new to both the team and the league.

Insua: 6. Solid, not spectacular. Often available (and willing) down the left, but rarely involved in anything dangerous.

Riera: 6/7. I wish he'd go at people a lot more, but he played quite well today... One or two gorgeous passes while moving at pace.

Lucas: 6. Did ok. Determined to get forward (a lot) early on, but retreated in the 2nd half. As usual, so far this season, better than before with setting the world ablaze. Seems to try to simply not be the worst player on the pitch, to me. And succeeding so far this year...

Steven: 7. Once again, our match-winner without ever really getting out of second gear. Praise Jesus that we have this bloke... Imagine where we'd be without him.

Dirk: 6/7. Hardworking. And Dutch. As always. Think some of you were harsh on him today... He looked dangerous at times. And his lay-off to 'Nando was brilliant.

Torres: 7. Should have had two in the first, and AGAIN looked disinterested for long spells. Also, seemed determined to turn 1,342 times when he got a sniff in the box in the 2nd half. Took the goal well though, of course. Can't wait for him to actually start caring again, if he bangs in 3 in 4 when he couldn't really be arsed.

Mascher: 7. Ran the thing for much of the first half, wasn't as influential in the 2nd. Trouble is, many don't really notice when he's quietly effective like this, 'cos there's not a lot of attacking action to show for it. And he got his annual shot on target in today - Should be fined if he even THINKS about shooting the rest of the season!

Yossi: 7. Why isn't he starting?

Dossena: At least he's Italian and not German, I suppose.

Veronin: It IS a LOVELY ponytail though...
 
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35540.msg935051#msg935051 date=1251578509]
Pepe: 7ish. Couldn't be faulted for either goal, wonderful save from the free kick. Caused one or two needless scares with his ultra-relaxed approach to onrushing attackers when receiving a back pass!

Glen: 9. Brilliant player. Best RB since Marcus.

Carra: 6. Looks out of sorts without being horrible. Maybe the bandage is skewing his equilibrium..?

Greek Fella: 5. Looked strong early, but poor at times, seeming to need too much time on the ball on a few occassions, watched the bloke score their first from the wrong side of him, and overall looked exactly like what he is... Brand new to both the team and the league.

Insua: 6. Solid, not spectacular. Often available (and willing) down the left, but rarely involved in anything dangerous.

Riera: 6/7. I wish he'd go at people a lot more, but he played quite well today... One or two gorgeous passes while moving at pace.

Lucas: 6. Did ok. Determined to get forward (a lot) early on, but retreated in the 2nd half. As usual, so far this season, better than before with setting the world ablaze. Seems to try to simply not be the worst player on the pitch, to me. And succeeding so far this year...

Steven: 7. Once again, our match-winner without ever really getting out of second gear. Praise Jesus that we have this bloke... Imagine where we'd be without him.

Dirk: 6/7. Hardworking. And Dutch. As always. Think some of you were harsh on him today... He looked dangerous at times. And his lay-off to 'Nando was brilliant.

Torres: 7. Should have had two in the first, and AGAIN looked disinterested for long spells. Also, seemed determined to turn 1,342 times when he got a sniff in the box in the 2nd half. Took the goal well though, of course. Can't wait for him to actually start caring again, if he bangs in 3 in 4 when he couldn't really be arsed.

Mascher: 7. Ran the thing for much of the first half, wasn't as influential in the 2nd. Trouble is, many don't really notice when he's quietly effective like this, 'cos there's not a lot of attacking action to show for it. And he got his annual shot on target in today - Should be fined if he even THINKS about shooting the rest of the season!

Yossi: 7. Why isn't he starting?

Dossena: At least he's Italian and not German, I suppose.

Veronin: It IS a LOVELY ponytail though...
[/quote]

I thought Masher was largely crap yesterday......by his standards.
 
reina 6 - conceded 2, was a bit to relaxed with ball at feet.
Insua 6 - cannot cross the ball at all, seems to play by numbers.
Carra 5 - back to hoofing and looks gone
Zorba 5 - good in the air but awful in everything else.
Johnson 8 - Great signing so far.
Reira 6 - not bad, but nothing great
Masher 6 - Effective
Lucas 6 - nothing much
Kuyt 6 - worked hard and scored
gerrard 5.5 - first half was marked out the game and when they took that away had an influence
Torres 6 - doesn't seem interested.

There is something going on at Melwood, there has to be. THey looked totally dis-interested even during the warm up - which had no energy. The entire team was static, there was no one wanting the ball. Everyone was ball watching - it was horrible.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35540.msg935029#msg935029 date=1251574986]
worrying start to the season by both Carra & Kuyt ...
[/quote]

Kuyt has a goal to his name and his assist for our second yesterday was sublime. Sure, he's not firing on all cylinders but I don't think it's anything to worry about.
 
Kuyt's awareness for the goal almost deserved a 10 alone, he's well worth his salt for moments of brilliance like that.
 
Reina 6 - Brilliant save but conceded two, not sure what he could have done for either but the defence infront of him don't look assured.

Johnson 9 - Willing runner and caused them problems all afternoon. A class act.

Zorba 7 - Decent debut, won loads in the air but a bit rusty at times, particularly for the second goal.

Carra 6 - Looked vulnerable for the setpieces but otherwise marshalled things pretty well and looked after the new lad.

Insua 6 - Provided good running down the left but was a bit indecisive with his final ball. Good player though.

Masher 6 - Usual stuff, broke things up well enough and tried to keep things moving.

Lucas 6 - Some nice passes, particularly the one for Nando, but shrugged off the ball again all too easy and not really nice to see him trying to get Davis sent off.

Kuyt 7 - Quiet but industrious as always, brilliant lay off for Nando.

Riera 5 - Piss poor in his decision making and general threat but kept the ball well with some good passing.

Gerrard 8 - Captain Marvel saving the day, which is always good to see.

Torres 9 - A threat all day, 3 already. Best striker in the World.

-

Yossi - Didn't see much.

Voronin 7 - Good, intelligent link up play.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35540.msg935029#msg935029 date=1251574986]
worrying start to the season by both Carra & Kuyt ...
[/quote]

Kuyt is utter dross for 50% of games even when he has a good season, so there's nothing to worry about there with him. He'll score 10goals or something this season and we'll forgive him.

As for Carra, I'm worried. I think this might be his last 'full' season where he plays most games. I think if they're both fit, we need to start at looking at bedding Skrtel and Agger as a proper partnership sooner rather than later.
 
i thought lucas had been bulking up, still at least he was of some value falling over and reducing bolton to 10 men.

even though riera was average he makes a significant difference on the left.

zorba will cost us goals, at best he's the sort of defender you bring on late in the game to help get to crosses.

the rest are getting better and we did really well to come back twice and win the game off the back of such a bad start. i'm sure rafa even made his 1st substitution before 70 mins!
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=35540.msg935242#msg935242 date=1251627351]
Froggy's ratings for Kuyt are ridiculous.

I'm with Mark and Whaddapie.
[/quote]

He did one thing right in the whole game - I was running a commentary on the match on here and he had a bloody awful match however some people like to protect him from criticism just because he works hard, I don't, if there is no end product.

When he has a great match I call it, when he puts in a goddamn awful shift (bar the sublime chest down - that was yesterday) I call it. He was crap yesterday, the game broke down at his feet so often I wanted him subbed off not Riera (as I said in the match thread).
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35540.msg935271#msg935271 date=1251631239]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=35540.msg935242#msg935242 date=1251627351]
Froggy's ratings for Kuyt are ridiculous.

I'm with Mark and Whaddapie.
[/quote]

He did one thing right in the whole game - I was running a commentary on the match on here and he had a bloody awful match however some people like to protect him from criticism just because he works hard, I don't, if there is no end product.

When he has a great match I call it, when he puts in a goddamn awful shift (bar the sublime chest down - that was yesterday) I call it. He was crap yesterday, the game broke down at his feet so often I wanted him subbed off not Riera (as I said in the match thread).
[/quote]

How can you say there was no end product after he produced a piece of brilliant awareness like that, which resulted in a goal?

I'll hold my hands up and agree he frustrates me at times and he hasn't had the best start to the season, but his positioning in the penalty area and his industry and awareness are second to none.

If he'd have been subbed off, who else would have tee'd up Torres like that?
 
People do get a bit funny about Kuyt getting criticized. He's not started the season in the best of form... and I think Mors was right in saying that even last season, which had everyone sucking his cock, he spent a good couple months playing poorly.

Maybe all the shit he got a couple seasons back has contributed to this over-protectiveness, but is any of that really untrue?

He's still contributing and I don't think anyone would want him dropped, so what's the problem?
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35540.msg935276#msg935276 date=1251631890]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35540.msg935271#msg935271 date=1251631239]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=35540.msg935242#msg935242 date=1251627351]
Froggy's ratings for Kuyt are ridiculous.

I'm with Mark and Whaddapie.
[/quote]

He did one thing right in the whole game - I was running a commentary on the match on here and he had a bloody awful match however some people like to protect him from criticism just because he works hard, I don't, if there is no end product.

When he has a great match I call it, when he puts in a goddamn awful shift (bar the sublime chest down - that was yesterday) I call it. He was crap yesterday, the game broke down at his feet so often I wanted him subbed off not Riera (as I said in the match thread).
[/quote]

How can you say there was no end product after he produced a piece of brilliant awareness like that, which resulted in a goal?

I'll hold my hands up and agree he frustrates me at times and he hasn't had the best start to the season, but his positioning in the penalty area and his industry and awareness are second to none.

If he'd have been subbed off, who else would have tee'd up Torres like that?
[/quote]

You use the ONE thing he did right in the match to give him 7/10. Sorry but I can't mark someone like that. Crap for 89 / 90 mins but he gets a 7 ? Hmmm. Yes the chest down led to a goal, but how many other opportunities were wasted because Kuyt was away with the fairies for most of the afternoon ? Maybe if Benni had played on the right he would have created more with Johnson - impossible to say now of course.

Likewise Torres who you gave a 9 too ! The same as Johnson who was brilliant all afternoon ? Not many would agree with you - read the match thread where I think you will find Torres frustrated a bunch of fans for the first half. That is the reason why I like to give 1st half / 2nd half ratings - if someone is crap in one half and brilliant in the other then you can detail it - that was Torres yesterday.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35540.msg935281#msg935281 date=1251632920]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35540.msg935276#msg935276 date=1251631890]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35540.msg935271#msg935271 date=1251631239]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=35540.msg935242#msg935242 date=1251627351]
Froggy's ratings for Kuyt are ridiculous.

I'm with Mark and Whaddapie.
[/quote]

He did one thing right in the whole game - I was running a commentary on the match on here and he had a bloody awful match however some people like to protect him from criticism just because he works hard, I don't, if there is no end product.

When he has a great match I call it, when he puts in a goddamn awful shift (bar the sublime chest down - that was yesterday) I call it. He was crap yesterday, the game broke down at his feet so often I wanted him subbed off not Riera (as I said in the match thread).
[/quote]

How can you say there was no end product after he produced a piece of brilliant awareness like that, which resulted in a goal?

I'll hold my hands up and agree he frustrates me at times and he hasn't had the best start to the season, but his positioning in the penalty area and his industry and awareness are second to none.

If he'd have been subbed off, who else would have tee'd up Torres like that?
[/quote]

You use the ONE thing he did right in the match to give him 7/10. Sorry but I can't mark someone like that. Crap for 89 / 90 mins but he gets a 7 ? Hmmm. Yes the chest down led to a goal, but how many other opportunities were wasted because Kuyt was away with the fairies for most of the afternoon ? Maybe if Benni had played on the right he would have created more with Johnson - impossible to say now of course.

Likewise Torres who you gave a 9 too ! The same as Johnson who was brilliant all afternoon ? Not many would agree with you - read the match thread where I think you will find Torres frustrated a bunch of fans for the first half. That is the reason why I like to give 1st half / 2nd half ratings - if someone is crap in one half and brilliant in the other then you can detail it - that was Torres yesterday.
[/quote]

A player doesn't have to be brilliant for 90 minutes to get a good rating.

Strikers in particular are expected to produce a moment of magic when it matters, that's what they're there for. A player like that might touch the ball sparingly, but finish with two goals, and if that's the difference in getting 3pts then they deserve all the accolades they get, it's what they're paid for to carry out their job in the team.

Torres scored a goal, Kuyt got an assist, EXACTLY what both are employed to do, and both incidents were worth their weight in gold.

I thought Torres' general running on and off the ball was great for most of the game. Ok, he ran into too many bodies at times, though he is now being heavily marked, but the support wasn't always around him for him to do much else. His mazy run in the box was excellent, and his finish was exactly what he's all about.
 
I don't disagree you with too much actually, hence I gave Torres an 8 for the 2nd half - it's just that I prefer to grade them differently and he was petulant and ineffective in that first half.

We struggled for long periods yesterday (especially in the 1st half) and IMO Kuyt had a lot to do with that in that our moves constantly broke down when he was involved. I just feel that it was one of his worst games that I can remember (yes I know some people will say they will take that if he gets an assist in every game) and that Benni could possibly have done much better.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35540.msg934814#msg934814 date=1251563608]


Kuyt - 2 + 4 - Oh Dear. Has he done even ONE thing right this half ? Poor tackling, passing, shooting, heading .. did I miss anything ? If I did that was poor too. Seems to have reverted to the Dirk of 2007/8 / A brilliant chest down for Torres and errrrr nothing else.


[/quote]

Balls.
 
Dirk has a goal and two assists so far in the league. That is a decent start from 4 games. He was dirt against Villa and Spurs but then again so was everyone.
 
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